65 replies to this topic

[Aresye]

Back when the poptart days were still around, and the Clans were just released, I remember Lords did a test pitting Victors against Timberwolves. The Timbers came out on top, but the Victors did win a few rounds, ultimately resulting in an overall consensus that the Timberwolf was slightly better than the Dragon Slayer, and ultimately the best mech in the game.

Note, that was before the jump jet nerf, the side torso nerf, the weapons nerfs, and both sets of IS quirks.

Fast forward to today. The Victor has actually been buffed, yet almost nobody takes it. It's outshined by quirked IS mechs that are actually better than the Dragon Slayer. The Timberwolf on the other hand, has not been buffed AT ALL. Granted, it's still a solid mech, but I'm pretty sure if you were to repeat this test today against the best quirked IS mechs, the results may be surprising.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye, on 21 March 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Back when the poptart days were still around, and the Clans were just released, I remember Lords did a test pitting Victors against Timberwolves. The Timbers came out on top, but the Victors did win a few rounds, ultimately resulting in an overall consensus that the Timberwolf was slightly better than the Dragon Slayer, and ultimately the best mech in the game.

Note, that was before the jump jet nerf, the side torso nerf, the weapons nerfs, and both sets of IS quirks.

Fast forward to today. The Victor has actually been buffed, yet almost nobody takes it. It's outshined by quirked IS mechs that are actually better than the Dragon Slayer. The Timberwolf on the other hand, has not been buffed AT ALL. Granted, it's still a solid mech, but I'm pretty sure if you were to repeat this test today against the best quirked IS mechs, the results may be surprising.

But surprising to WHOM; is the question?

[Aiden Skye]

i think its a really bad idea to use meta builds as the baseline for dealing out blanket nerfs.

[Aresye]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

But surprising to WHOM; is the question?

I don't pretend that even if the results of such a test pointed to the TBR no longer being as OP as it once was, that any large number of complainers would immediately go, "Yeah we were wrong. TBR isn't as OP anymore." That wouldn't be the goal.

If the results painted overall balance in a better light, I would hope it would reach more in the competitive community, who have long just stood by their stances that were formed when Clan mechs were first released. Many of the competitive players run large events and leagues, and a lot of them have very strict rules on Clan mechs. If balance is not the same as when these rules were established, it would be nice to see non-necessary restrictions lifted and/or changed.

[Adiuvo]

Aresye, on 21 March 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Back when the poptart days were still around, and the Clans were just released, I remember Lords did a test pitting Victors against Timberwolves. The Timbers came out on top, but the Victors did win a few rounds, ultimately resulting in an overall consensus that the Timberwolf was slightly better than the Dragon Slayer, and ultimately the best mech in the game.

Note, that was before the jump jet nerf, the side torso nerf, the weapons nerfs, and both sets of IS quirks.

Fast forward to today. The Victor has actually been buffed, yet almost nobody takes it. It's outshined by quirked IS mechs that are actually better than the Dragon Slayer. The Timberwolf on the other hand, has not been buffed AT ALL. Granted, it's still a solid mech, but I'm pretty sure if you were to repeat this test today against the best quirked IS mechs, the results may be surprising.

The PPC/Gauss Victor if plopped back in today would still be able to stand up to laser vomit Timberwolves, which is what all of them were during the test. If EmP were to repeat that test laser vomit TWs likely wouldn't be brought (gauss/ERML instead) and there still isn't any equivalency to a jumpsniping Victor. There is nothing that hill peeked while still being mobile as well as that, which is how the Victor team won.

Aresye, on 21 March 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

I don't pretend that even if the results of such a test pointed to the TBR no longer being as OP as it once was, that any large number of complainers would immediately go, "Yeah we were wrong. TBR isn't as OP anymore." That wouldn't be the goal.

If the results painted overall balance in a better light, I would hope it would reach more in the competitive community, who have long just stood by their stances that were formed when Clan mechs were first released. Many of the competitive players run large events and leagues, and a lot of them have very strict rules on Clan mechs. If balance is not the same as when these rules were established, it would be nice to see non-necessary restrictions lifted and/or changed.

RHoD has no restrictions on mech choices, and the winning teams have been bringing all clans minus lights.

[Soy]

ML Hunchies and LL Stalkers were always powerful, even back in the tart heyday. Same as Gauss + ML; in fact it was more powerful back then [in a meta-less vacuum].

I don't think that DS was the most powerful tart, the most powerful of all time was the pre-special nerf Highlanders or 3D, but I understand the logic behind stacking Vics in group play.