52 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

It's official now, I'm buying myself a HBK-4J! This thing kills!

Now I can return the favor by unloading my ******* on unfortunate faces mwahahaha.

[TwentyOne]

badaa, on 21 March 2015 - 10:59 PM, said:

the resin elo doesn't work, is because elo was made to rank 1 vs 1 players against each other.

it doesn't work right when dealing with groups, specially larger groups like in mwo.

Resin ELO? You think they where using resin when they made it? I don't understand.

[stjobe]

Paigan, on 22 March 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

how can one be a "good LRM pilot"?

If you think pressing R is the only skill involved in using LRMs, I'm not surprised you're asking that question.

A good LRM pilot
* doesn't waste LRMs needlessly on tenuous locks or targets in cover
* uses TAG to get his own locks if nobody else provides, and to defeat ECM
* knows the difference between chain-fire and salvo-fire, and when to apply which
* uses cover to defeat incoming fire, but knows that LRM accuracy goes down the drain without LoS
* uses Artemis to further tighten the volleys fired with LoS
* prefers to fight at 300-500m, in LoS, so probably uses a fast, sturdy 'mech
* doesn't mind using direct-fire weaponry to complement the LRMs

There's more, but that should get you started on why there's more to LRMs than just pressing R.

Sure, you can just press R, but then you're never going to be "a good LRM pilot". You're just going to be chucking missiles at rocks, trees, and terrain - wondering why LRMs are so OP when the enemy uses them but so UP when you do.

[Kjudoon]

The excuse "You don't have to target" with LRMs is also false. You have to double hitscan with anticipation and prediction. It may be easier than an AC, but it's about like using a laser with the LB10X spread.

1. Choose a target.
2. Hitscan to lock target. ECM can increase this up to 30 seconds!
3. Anticipate when you get lock how fast you have to fire because you may lose lock at any second without warning.
4. Hitscan to maintain lock. Again, not as precise as an AC, but comparable as before. This can take up to 7 seconds of flight time before impact.
5. Predict when target, if hidden, has reached cover, in time to stop wasting salvos (as many as 4 can be in the air at one time), and stop firing.

Compared to firing ACs, this is much more involved. It is a process that happens over a longer period in most cases. That's twitch based reflex. What it needs to function takes fractions of a second. It is not a skill, but a reaction that is done without cognative thought, though thought may go into the planning of where to shoot a target or what target to select, just like LRMs. Once the trigger is pulled though, your part in the operation is over. Missiles have 4 readjustment points in their travel time and lock must be maintained OR regained before the 4th point or be lost and miss to hit the last known location. This also is yet another hitscan to lock.

If you are using TAG, you also have the need to hitscan with the tag and get it to work, on a target which adds in secondary range(short if ECM is present, and long) to the equation.

[Hit the Deck]

Aaaand a "good LRM pilot" knows how to use cover and *indirect fire* when appropriate. For example, you could flank the enemy and then shoot from complete cover. This makes the enemy to relocate because they can't simply shoot at you. They have to either back down and get to cover themselves, or closing in to you. The latter makes them vulnerable to your team's fire.


Edit: adding my magnificent paint pic:

Spoiler

The blue dots usually choose to withdraw in this situation.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 22 March 2015 - 05:08 AM.

[Reefler]

CrushLibs, on 21 March 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

Those OP clan mechs sure didn't fair well against all those IS mechs who had top dmg on both sides.

Problem with your team is poor aim. Your top dmg guy wasn't too far off the CTF and damage across the board was decent.

If you don't press the R button and finish off a mech or learn to hit legs or CT and just spread damage then your team will LOSE.

PGI can't fix stupid or this game would be better already

IS has no ghost heat at all and can stack all the large lasers they want IS is bullshit OP when you look at the real battletech universe it should take 2 IS mechs to take out one clanner at the start of the invasion it needs to be way more challenging on IS. Add in the quirkening b.s. and this isn't even battletech any more not to mention you have again the 30-40 year old fat wastes of society still living with their parents players that like to take this so seriously to them it may as well be real. To them I only have to say it's a game play for fun and go out and do something with your lives in between or get the hell off the planet if your not helping out or contributing you are only in the way of progress.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

Add in the quirkening b.s. and this isn't even battletech any more

Oh... but it is.

http://www.sarna.net...i/Design_Quirks

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 March 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[stjobe]

Reefler, on 22 March 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

IS has no ghost heat at all and can stack all the large lasers they want

Nah. IS has a 3 LL/ERLL/LPL limit, any more and you get Ghost Heat.

The only IS lasers without GH are the small ones.

As for the rest of your post, dude. Someone posting rants on a game forum really has no place telling others to "get a life".

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Paigan, on 22 March 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

Personally, I think the concept or LRMs is a nice tactical element, but honestely: how can one be a "good LRM pilot"?
Does he press R real smoothly or something?
I played LRMs myself a lot in the beginning and the only skill you can possible have is to not fire your missiles into obvious cover. Oh and MAYBE even be smart enough to chose a King Crab over a Locust as the target.
The real skill stuff is up to the team mates (scout targets, hold locks, report targets in the open, don't die in the process).

Being LRM support is the following:

Choosing Targets of Opprotunity.
Paying attention to make sure you're LRM's are having effect on target and not hitting cover [there are times this is easier said than done]
Adjusting so that you have good line of sight if you're using A-LRM's.
Ensuring your payloads are hitting well.
Ensuring you have decent backup weaponry so you're not entirely useless once you're payload runs dry/Should the enemy close with you.

People overlook the Catapult-C1 these days. with only 2 missile hardpoints and 4 energy, but you know what? 2 LRM15's and 4 mlas, this mech can even before quirks, outlast some of the toughest opponents if played well.

While yes, the absolute basic's of LRM'ing is "Press R, lock on, fire everything." There's a lot of minutia in regards to positioning, teamwork, ect. That many overlook.

Combine that with the fact that LRM's actively have the most hard counters in the game. well... there it is. LRMing and doing well...takes skill.

[Foxwalker]

Funny how the LRM vs. Direct Fire debate hijacked the ELO debate thread.
I would like to address both. Position and Teamwork is the answer to both debates.

No matter how high your ELO is, if a lance gets out of position and killed, or if the team teamwork does not become coheasive, than Inertia and attrition take hold and it is hard to recover.

I play missileboats sometimes, and find they can be very hard to play well. Direct fire guys often denegrate those pilots. But the same holds for them as for direct fire. Gotta position well, gotta work with the team.

Just my 2 cents

[Tasker]

Reefler, on 22 March 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

IS has no ghost heat at all and can stack all the large lasers they want IS is bullshit OP when you look at the real battletech universe it should take 2 IS mechs to take out one clanner at the start of the invasion it needs to be way more challenging on IS. Add in the quirkening b.s. and this isn't even battletech any more not to mention you have again the 30-40 year old fat wastes of society still living with their parents players that like to take this so seriously to them it may as well be real. To them I only have to say it's a game play for fun and go out and do something with your lives in between or get the hell off the planet if your not helping out or contributing you are only in the way of progress.

Thank you.

[km1710]

fifth 12-loss streak in 3 days. MM, other than being badly implemented, simply cannot work with this population; it is not big enough. I just keep losing even I should have already reached ****-tier level. No matter what I try to do and in whatever 'mech. Grinding XP is a pain in the ass even with the premium time from lucky charms.

Edited by km1710, 22 March 2015 - 08:13 AM.

[Riyott]

Reefler, on 22 March 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

IS has no ghost heat at all and can stack all the large lasers they want IS is bullshit OP when you look at the real battletech universe it should take 2 IS mechs to take out one clanner at the start of the invasion it needs to be way more challenging on IS. Add in the quirkening b.s. and this isn't even battletech any more not to mention you have again the 30-40 year old fat wastes of society still living with their parents players that like to take this so seriously to them it may as well be real. To them I only have to say it's a game play for fun and go out and do something with your lives in between or get the hell off the planet if your not helping out or contributing you are only in the way of progress.

I agree. Clans not being an auto-win button is just wrong. When we drop on a planet IS players should just Hold-K themselves and uninstall. I paid a lot of money for these Clan Mechs and I deserve to win because that is my right as a member of the Clans. Giving IS robots a chance and allowing IS and Clans go head-to-head with each other is erroneous and flat out inaccurate to lore; it breaks my immersion and is just stupid. I do not understand the reasoning behind IS quirks at all. Let them be how they are with their inferiority.

MY CLAN MECHS ARE NOT YOUR PLAYGROUND. WE WIN, WE ARE SUPERIOUR IN EVERY WAY. STOP MESSING WITH GAMEPLAY BALANCE. STOP MESSING WITH MY INTERNET ROBUTTS.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Reefler, on 22 March 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

IS has no ghost heat at all and can stack all the large lasers they want IS is bullshit OP when you look at the real battletech universe it should take 2 IS mechs to take out one clanner at the start of the invasion it needs to be way more challenging on IS. Add in the quirkening b.s. and this isn't even battletech any more not to mention you have again the 30-40 year old fat wastes of society still living with their parents players that like to take this so seriously to them it may as well be real. To them I only have to say it's a game play for fun and go out and do something with your lives in between or get the hell off the planet if your not helping out or contributing you are only in the way of progress.

Well yeah, sure, I mean of course, but... Give us 10v16, then we will talk.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I feel your pain Nova, run into similar runs with my Raven 3L yesterday. I get my 4th or 5th kill, look at the numbers and realize..there's me left on my team and 7 or 8 of the enemy still alive. End of round, I'm posting up 500-700 damage with 3 ML and 2 SRM4, the rest of my team has 100 or less. I took out 3 Lights and a Heavy, my team played ducks at the target range *sigh*

Then I get a run of games where I'm doing the same and my TEAM is doing well on top of that so we win 12-0 or 11-1. Don't see too many names repeated in these drops, so there's enough players to keep things mixed up it would seem.

There's another thread where we're comparing our wlr, and it seems that Elo and MM are actually working, those of us who drop mostly or totally PUG, we're all around the 50/50 mark. The folks who drop 12 mans are doing much better, which tells us the MM isn't as good with matching teams, go figure.

[Vocis]

The issue is that Elo is designed for 1v1 in a static game.

MWO is not 1v1, nor is the game static.

If you didn't patch the game and forced everyone to play the exact same mechs on a single map MM would be much better.

But it would also be a very boring game. As long as there is a lot of variability in the system MM will not be great. The math just doesn't work out unless everyone played tens of thousands of games.

Even then a patch could change everything.

MM will never be perfect. Accept it and move on.

[Lynx7725]

Riyott, on 22 March 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

I agree. Clans not being an auto-win button is just wrong.
[..]
MY CLAN MECHS ARE NOT YOUR PLAYGROUND. WE WIN, WE ARE SUPERIOUR IN EVERY WAY. STOP MESSING WITH GAMEPLAY BALANCE. STOP MESSING WITH MY INTERNET ROBUTTS.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lynx7725, on 22 March 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

I think your sarcasm detector is on the fritz.....

[Lynx7725]

Kristov Kerensky, on 22 March 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

I think your sarcasm detector is on the fritz.....

Maybe. But this is the Interwebs. You never know whether it's sarcasm or a nutjob.

[Foxwalker]

km1710, on 22 March 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

fifth 12-loss streak in 3 days. MM, other than being badly implemented, simply cannot work with this population; it is not big enough. I just keep losing even I should have already reached ****-tier level. No matter what I try to do and in whatever 'mech. Grinding XP is a pain in the ass even with the premium time from lucky charms.

What is your KDR and Win/Loss ratios? If they are close to 1 give or take, than ELO and the Match Maker is actually working fine in my opionion. Given that we do not actually know the population, that statement is a guess.

Given that with MM and ELO, dynamics of a PUG match is a coin toss. Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. There will be streaks both ways.