48 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

The only one I really have "fond memories" of is the Stinger. Unseen.

[InspectorG]

Well,

IS: Unseen...mainly. In MWO ive become a metawhore so...

Locust...for the lols and skill
FS
Cicada
Thuds
Stalker

Clansmen:

Fix my goddamm Summoner...rant over. In BT i used to run an gun with them...MWO...far less so.

Kitfox
Scro
(saving for Timby or maybe even a Hellbie cuz it looks similar to a Warhammer
Whale

Ill have to roll meta because i am getting less time to play these days.

[Ralmer]

Koniving, on 23 March 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'm actually saddened by the general lack of Ravens in the books I've got so far.

The Raven was introduced in the Houes Liao handbook, so it's later than TR3025 but still definitely from the "early Battletech" era. And its profile is definitely recognizable, so it passes at least that part of the "iconic" test.

But... frankly it was sort of a joke. It was described as an "electronic warfare" mech with something like 5 tons of "equipment" in the loadout, but with absolutely no game mechanics to go along with it. No one ever wanted to use it in a game, and I don't recall any published scenarios that used one. It wasn't until the TR3050 that it got real game-described equipment, and even then it wasn't very useful.

The Raven as the current powerhouse-light-***-ECM-sniper platform is very much a MW:O invention. I wouldn't call it "classic" at all.

[Koniving]

Ralmer, on 24 March 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

The Raven was introduced in the Houes Liao handbook, so it's later than TR3025 but still definitely from the "early Battletech" era. And its profile is definitely recognizable, so it passes at least that part of the "iconic" test.

But... frankly it was sort of a joke. It was described as an "electronic warfare" mech with something like 5 tons of "equipment" in the loadout, but with absolutely no game mechanics to go along with it. No one ever wanted to use it in a game, and I don't recall any published scenarios that used one. It wasn't until the TR3050 that it got real game-described equipment, and even then it wasn't very useful.

The Raven as the current powerhouse-light-***-ECM-sniper platform is very much a MW:O invention. I wouldn't call it "classic" at all.

Oh I know. ECM does have great uses but ~only~ with Strat-Ops and Tac-Ops rules on double blind... it seriously hinders BAP, which is the BattleTech Jesus Box (where ECM is the MWO Jesus Box). BAP is perhaps the most unfair god-mode p.o.s. you can possibly have -- thankfully it requires a successful roll which is quite rare and difficult. But when it succeeds, "I see everything" is an understatement.

The House Liao book I have doesn't have pictures, so yeah. Sad face. I'll be looking for one that does. In the mean time I made a special request of Haruko to rescale MWO's Shadowhawk to the lore proper scale of the 1980s 2nd edition BattleTech.

Here's what we got. First, I should note it turned out Haruko knew what the mech name and anime was that the original Shadowhawk came from as well as the "Dougram's" original scale (9.63 meters). The Battletech artwork that I used to show her also turned out to be roughly the same scale.

On the far left is a Crysis Tank. Center, the proper scale of the Shadowhawk. To the right is MWO's scale. Keep in mind if we put the MWO Commando into this image, it would be bigger than the proper scale of the Shadowhawk by 0.07 meters.


And the somewhat larger, bulkier Wolverine (due to having over 10 tons of armor compared to the Shadowhawk 2-series average of 4 tons.)


It'd be really amazing to see how different MWO would be... with true to lore scales.
(Then again, Locusts would be anorexic skinny and freakishly tall, while the Flea would be a boxy thing at less than half the Locust's height).

Edited by Koniving, 24 March 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[Benjamin Kirsch]

Btw, that's not a Cyclops in Koniving's post. That is a Phoenix Hawk, you can see it in the Irregular's 12 mech lineup. The Warhammer is the most iconic mech for me (as well as my favorite) as it was on the cover of the first box set I got. Also it was the Black Widow's mech.

[Novawrecker]

How can you mention "iconic" and not state the Panther (especially amongst the DCMS).

Stinger, Archer, Marauder to name a few others.

[Wabbit Swaya]

all forever unseen

CRD - Crusader
WHM - Warhammer
RFL - Rifleman
ARC - Archer

except muh UZL - Uziel

[Kenyon Burguess]

warhammer for me, it was on the tabletop boxset and caught my attention all those decades ago

[Tiamat of the Sea]

This really depends on what you mean when you say 'iconic'.

Something iconic is representative of what it is a part of- in this case, a 'mech representative of something larger. What larger thing affects the answer.

If you mean 'mechs representative of Battletech/Mechwarrior as a whole, then the list is fairly simple, and shortened by the fact that the Unseen 'mechs are Unseen, and a number of 'mechs still aren't in MWO at all.

• Thanks to the Crescent Hawks series of computer games, the Jenner is fairly representative.
  
• The Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) and Mad Dog (Vulture) have appeared on the outsides of games and books a fair amount.
  
• The Battlemaster has appeared on some FASA and post-FASA Battletech materials, so it's relatively recognisable. Also featured in modified appearance during the MW4(bleh) videos.
  
• The Atlas has gotten less visibility than the Timber Wolf, but more than most other 'mechs.

Some of the unavailable ones follow here.

• The Warhammer design was copied from Robotech and so, despite being The Mech On The Box for some time, is not an option.
  
• The Marauder design is also from Robotech and so, despite being on several books and featuring prominently in the art, is also not an option.
  
• The Hammerhands replaced the Battlemaster for a while as The Mech On The Box after the Warhammer was removed, but doesn't exist in significant numbers in Battletech and thus is unlikely to appear in MWO (there may also be limited-variant problems there)
  
• The Mauler appeared on the Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries

At the same time, you have the 'in-universe' iconic 'mechs- ones that are associated strongly with one or another house, clan, mercenary outfit, et cetera. These are less obvious, because it takes knowing some of the lore to understand them. These are the ones we have access to right now.

• The Jenner and Dragon are the primary iconic Kurita 'mechs. In-universe, these 'mechs are pretty much only produced in Draconis Combine space, so having one and not being a Drac is essentially unheard-of. Atlas are also fairly common Assault 'mechs there, as Draconis space includes a number of Atlas-producing factories.
  
• Despite everyone and their brother 'knowing' that the Steiner Scout Lance is four Atlas, the Atlas is relatively uncommon in the Lyran Commonwealth. What do show up a lot are Commandos, Firestarters (in fact, there's a Firestarter variant that's completely exclusive to the Skye subregion), Zeus, and Victors.
  
• Blackjacks are very close to exclusively a Davion 'mech, as are Enforcers. You can later find some Blackjacks and Enforcers in the St. Ives' Compact, should that actually come to existence as a separate power in MWO. Banshees also tend to come from here, though they do appear some in the Commonwealth as well.
  
• Marik is the primary origin of things with NARC and lots of missiles- Trebuchet and the NARC-equipped Stalker, for instance. The Free Worlds' League is also the originator and sole home for some of the Awesome variants out there (though, oddly, not the LRM-heavy ones.... weird).
  
• Liao is for advanced electronics, so the Raven originates there and is rarely seen outside of the Capellan Confederation. The Cataphract originates there as well.
  
• Clan Wolf is the premier user of the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf. While both 'mechs appear across the clans, the majority of non-Clan-Wolf Timber Wolves and Dire Wolves are Primary variants, so the others are generally just seen in the Clan itself.
  
• Clan Jade Falcon is where you go to find more Mad Dogs and Summoners. These aren't truly 'iconic' of the clan, though. Most of the Jade Falcon 'icons' will show up later on in the timeline.
  
• Clan Ghost Bear identifies itself with 'mechs we haven't even got in the game yet, for the most part. Dangit.
  
• Smoke Jaguar, on the other hand, has the misfortune of being the clan whose most iconic 'mech (the Ebon Jaguar) is not called by its original name anywhere outside the clan- the Cauldron-Born is named by an Inner Sphere pilot and even the Clans take on that name for it (much to the frustration of Smoke Jaguar).
  Spoiler

  This becomes a moot point when Smoke Jaguar winds up being the one clan that gets annihilated by an Inner Sphere counterattack later on.
  
  
• The King Crab is generally only seen in the modern Inner Sphere in the hands of ComStar, making it iconic of the HPG managers. Which makes it a little odd that it's being seen throughout the Sphere in MWO, but oh well.

There are some other 'mechs iconic of various houses and clans (Turkina for Jade Falcon, Caesar for Steiner, Hatchetman for Steiner again, Grand Crusader for Comstar, Kodiak for Ghost Bear, Huntsman for Jade Falcon, and so on) that we don't have yet for varying reasons (melee weapons, not enough official variants, not enough official variants at this point in the timeline, not in existence at this point in the timeline even though the necessary tech already exists, second-line Clan 'mechs, not seen in noticeable numbers in the Sphere at this point in the timeline), but at that point the list becomes ludicrously long, and I've already thrown enough info at you here, I think.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 25 March 2015 - 03:50 PM.

[CruiseMissileCowboy]

Timberwolf is good, but you are Kurita and can't use it in Community Warfare, nor any of the Clan mechs for that matter. You should stick with IS mechs to be more valuable to your IS brothers.
The Atlas is okay, most would tell you to go for the Stalkers, the Banshees, and the battlemasters.

Since you sound like you just started, cbills are probably short. Work with the Firestarters, the Raven, the Wolverine, the Thunderbolts, then the Assaults.

[Tim East]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 25 March 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

Hatchetman for Steiner again, Kodiak for Ghost Bear

Oh yes. Hatchetman. I freaking love the Hatchetman <3

And the Kodiak was pretty cool in the MW2 Ghost Bear's Legacy expansion.

[Kerensky98]

The Warhammer is most Iconic but banned (they redesigned it but it's not the same).
After that I'd go with Timberwolf.

[Prince Peter Davion]

The BattleMaster, more feared than the Atlas, more famous!

[Ken Harkin]

Battlemaster. It was the biggest mech in the game for a long time. There want even an assault class when it came out, just heavies.

[JC Daxion]

for me from playing old mech warrior games, Mech 3+4, and commander 1+2 these have always been my favs.. (mind you some are not in the game yet)


Bushwacker

Couger

Thor

madcat

hunchback

catapult

Raven

Puma

Nova

Shadow Hawk

In MWO, I have only played the few IS mechs i have listed, the HBK, Cat, and raven.. One day i will get into clanners but not now, I still have way to many engines and modules to buy for my IS fleet Some will say the Catapults and LRMs suck, but i really enjoy them, and the HBK's to me is one of the most fun/flexible mechs in the game, and ravens are just fun! Love the looks and they have some really fun load outs

[Koniving]

Benjamin Kirsch, on 25 March 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Btw, that's not a Cyclops in Koniving's post. That is a Phoenix Hawk, you can see it in the Irregular's 12 mech lineup. The Warhammer is the most iconic mech for me (as well as my favorite) as it was on the cover of the first box set I got. Also it was the Black Widow's mech.

This...

Koniving, on 23 March 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

isn't the cyclops? And instead is this? (Above is 1987, below is 1989 original TRO 3050, not the revised that changed or removed all the unseen).



Ok. Yeah between the arms and antennae I do see the similarities.

....Still better than any official Cyclops render I've seen.

[Koniving]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 25 March 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

Awesome source of information.

To add to this... Virtually every "M" variant of any mech is most likely a Marik variant. One thing to note is that they almost always have XL engines, double heatsinks, the best of the best (Stalker 5M, Shadowhawk 5M, etc.). This is largely in part to Marik supposedly (I don't know this to be hard fact just what I constantly see) having stayed out of most (if not all) of the Succession Wars.

They wind up supplying the other factions with XL engines and DHS during the Clan invasion.

Anyway...
The Steiner Scout Lance is actually an on-going in-universe joke about really poor Steiner leadership (since most Steiners of rank supposedly have bought their position or are so incompetent that the on-going assumption is that they probably bought their rank). It also, of course, ties into Lyran wealth. They actually use Commandos for scouting.

Davions use Locusts for scouting. In the source material it has identical armor to most Jenner variants, superior speed, but is a little short on firepower. It is also considerably cheaper and better suited for dealing with infantry encampments. Also, unlike the Jenner, it can shoot left and right thanks to the turret on the center torso -- which is quite advantageous considering both mechs do not feature torso twist.

Kurita uses Jenners as already mentioned. Though short of the brawling variant (the JR7-F), they rival Locusts in armor. With the armor gone Jenners can withstand a bit more punishment and their weapons are far more vicious. Unlike Locust models, the Jenner's head is depicted to have the ability to rotate, allowing the pilot to see more than a Locust could hope to see.

Marik may have mechanized scouts, but every depiction I've seen has shown that Marik typically uses vehicles for scouting instead. I have noticed the missile bias in Marik.

I don't know anything about the FRR other than somehow Kurita and Steiner both allowed them to declare independence and...somehow both supported this?? Makes little to no sense, and so few years (little over a decade) before the Clans invade. They seem like a plot convenience for the Clans to completely wipe out some sort of 'power'. Space vikings wiped out by superior alien yet human invaders!

Liao uses Ravens for scouting. The premier design for Liao scouting is the Raven 3L, equally fast as the Jenner, better armored than the Locust, full array of equipment. Torso twist, unlike the other two. Shorter, too, but much, much thicker. Raven 3L even has inferior head armor to the Jenner D and K as well as most Locusts. Check it out on Smurfy for their stock builds.

Davions have access to Ravens. A noteworthy thing is that Davion Raven variants are heavily armored and built for brawling (Raven 4X). Such, sadly doesn't matter much in the way MWO is designed.

King Crabs being hangar queens makes quite a bit more sense now -- Comstar as a neutral power up to a certain point has no need to go on the offense. But defending things? What could defend better than close quarters with a King Crab?

[SilentSooYun]

To me, most of THE iconic BattleTech Mechs are now Unseen (Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman)

Atlas and Madcat are good iconic Mechs as well.

I would also add the Zeus and Centurion to that list... with the MWO Centurion being vastly sexier than it's FASA progenitor. The Zeus has classic, almost Dougram-esque lines that make it easily recognisable throughout BattleTech, and the Centurion (specifically, the custom Yen-Lo-Wang) features heavily in the popular Stackpole books.

The Catapult would probably also be iconic, except the details of it's appearance change with almost every iteration. Still, the general shape is commonly seen throughout the "universe".

The UrbanMech can be considered iconic, but mostly as the iconic underdog. Some other Mechs are built worse, but the UrbanMech's looks and speed (or lack thereof) work against it.

[tucsonspeed6]

For those of us who were introduced to the BT universe through the animated series, the Axeman was THE star mech.

[Smag]

I'll put Hatchetman on this list, since nobody has done it yet. It's always been a staple of the tabletop game.