58 replies to this topic

[Leeroy Mechkins]

On defence of IS worlds, I and my unit/FRR bros have been dropping with many new PUGs.
Here is some quick suggestions that may help newcomers to IS improve quickly.

• First of all, please don't stand right next to the gate on defence. When the enemy 12-man comes in, you will lose your mech, usually with no kill in return. Stay close enough to cover so you can get to safety when the 12-man charges.
  
• Second, please play more conservatively at the start of the match. The first two mechs are the "carries". They often decide the game, so be extra careful and please don't overextend with them.
  
• Third, make sure your first mech is powerful enough to fight a TBR 1v1. The first wave is usually OP Timberwolves/Hellbringers. So usually get something 75 tons or more. Unless you are a scout or ECM/TAG/LRM, but not too many or the team is weakened.
  
• Fourth, basic defence positions. Brawlers hide just behind chokepoints. Snipers be long range, and behind good cover, on hills if you have JJs or near turrets. Behind gun is good.
  
• Fifth, UAVs and artillery are great. When you have the Cbills, do consider loading a UAV and arty on your mechs. These can turn the tide of battle.

Hope this helps in our fight vs the clanners.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 March 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[slide]

I would also suggest the following,

-Press the "TEAM" button before typing into the pregame window. Giving away your teams plans before the game doesn't help.

-Leave the LRM's at home, against anything but another pug team, they are generally worse than useless as they take up space that could be used for better options. The preponderance of ECM Hellbringers and IS lights with ECM means that you are generally putting your team mates in harms way to get locks for you.

-LOCK YOUR TARGET. Press the "R" button. This gives your team mates who didn't listen to my last point at least a chance of doing some damage. More importantly it tells you where to shoot at on damaged mechs. Taking out half the weapons on a Timber or Dire Wolf (Side torso) is immensely better for your team than shooting randomly all over a mech and hoping you kill it.

-If you are losing a trade with an enemy, re-position, and shoot at something else. Don't keep doing the same thing as you will die.

-If somebody is man enough to suggest a plan/strategy do it. A bad plan is still better than NO plan with everybody running in all directions.

-if you have a short ranged mech, wait, be patient, the enemy will come to you.

-when you respawn, try to go the opposite side to the enemy rush and get behind them. Lights can be particularly effective at this. Boreal and the Canyon map can be good for this.

-Be aware that if you are in an ECM mech scouting behind the enemy you can give away your position, by the interference your ECM does to the enemy HUD. Stay at range or switch modes (J).

Edited by slide, 22 March 2015 - 07:14 PM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Dropdeck strategy:

Clan will usually go TBR SCR SCR SCR or HBR HBR SCR SCR.
Therefore, IS first 2 mechs needs to be able to fight on equal or better terms with TBR and HBR.

Its good to use more of that 250 tons at the start, not on the later mechs when the game is already lost.
Assault Assault Light Light or Assault Heavy Heavy Light or Assault Heavy Medium Light are good.

Some cool dropdecks I have used or seen are

• Banshee Stalker/Battlemaster Firestarter Firestarter
  
• Atlas D-DC/King Crab Zeus/Victor Firestarter Firestarter
  
• Highlander Highlander Firestarter Firestarter
  
• Stalker/Battlemaster Zeus/Victor Thunderbolt/Jagermech Locust
  
• Stalker/Battlemaster Thunderbolt/Jagermech Thunderbolt/Jagermech Firestarter

Many others can work too, but these are some of the better ones I have seen.
Any of these with good builds and conservation of the first 2 mechs will do OK against a clan team.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 March 2015 - 08:10 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

It seems that the specific time-period in which myself and Leeroy are dropping is barren of organized units and the habitat of the humble PUG. We've been playing together mostly in the morning/early afternoon EST, mostly with 'Strayans and Euros.

I strongly feel that PGI should do one or two EASY things to improve CW. No new features or anything too resource-intensive.

Simply bar players that do not own at least 2 mechs from playing CW. I dropped with several players who were in 4 trials, playing CW for the first time. Of course, they'd usually charge out alone and die, racking up 50-100 damage over 4 mechs.

That simply CANNOT be fun for that person. And the worst part? They've really got no idea why its happening. First instinct is to think "wow, those clan mechs are OP, they killed me in 5 seconds!" when really they were being repeatedly alpha'd by 6 guys at once. Will people complain? Yeah, at least a few. People will complain about anything. But when the complaint translates to "I should be able to get my ass repeatedly rammed if I want to!"

..and ideally, that person SHOULD have the freedom to be dominated time and again if that is what they wish. However, when this detriments 11 other people on the team EVERY game, restriction is justified.

Okay, the second thing. For goodness' sake, make some DOCUMENTATION for CW. Hell, for ANYTHING. I've gotten roughly 10-12 brand new players into the game, for the purpose of playing CW together. Only 1-2 of us besides myself have any battletech knowledge, and I'm the only one that is a huge nerd about it. When these people were first getting mechs for CW, they had no way of telling clan mechs apart from IS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't even a way to sort mechs in the shop by clan/IS, is there? If there is, this specific anecdote is moot, but the general principle remains. Even simple links to the forums would be nice. Although anyone reading this obviously at least cares a bit about the forums, many players (maybe the majority) will NEVER set foot here unless specifically prompted to by the game itself. PGI doesn't even have to write up guides; the community has done it for them, and well. PGI just needs to present them.

Loads of brand new players to CW will be HORRIFIED and completely turned off to the game if they are allowed to participate in it so early. Of course, if CW was far better, nobody would be barred from it. However, it is in-progress, and I can't come up with any other solution for now.

As always, until any changes are made, we are responsible for teaching new players and making their experience in the game as fun as possible. PGI cannot take blame fully. We have guilt upon us if we simply ignore the new players, or even worse, deride them.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

OK if you are REALLY new to CW here is the basic info:

There are 3 map modes:

• For ATTACK, open a gate by destroying the powergrid just inside the gate. Then you need to destroy the 3 OGENs before the OMEGA opens. OMEGA is the generator on the back of the gun. Destroy OMEGA to win.
  
• For DEFENCE, prevent enemy from destroying the OMEGA. So stop them killing the OGENs first. When OMEGA has little HP left, don't just sit on it, push into enemy territory and start attacking them early because its too late to stop them when they are right next to OMEGA.
  
• For COUNTERATTACK, your team needs to get a kill lead AND destroy OMEGA. Gates are already open and no OGENs.
  
• For HOLD, your team needs to get a kill lead and/or prevent OMEGA from being destroyed to win. Gates are already open and no OGENs.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 March 2015 - 10:08 PM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

For ATTACK, there are usually two styles or a mix of them.

ATTRITION means that your team wants to kill most or all of the enemy mechs first so there is little opposition left. Then it is easy to destroy OGENS/OMEGA. This style means the push is slower and more careful, losing mechs is bad, play safer.

GEN RUSH means your team wants to kill OGENS/OMEGA even if it means losing a few waves with few or no kills.
There are 4 waves, so even if your team loses a lot of mechs, it can still win if it takes out some OGENs each wave then the last 1-2 waves attacks OMEGA.

In practice, the two modes are often mixed. It is often impossible to do a straight gen rush without killing the mechs in the way. Also, if attrition is going badly and time is short, the strategy may change to gen rush.



For COUNTERATTACK, it is recommended to play really safe to get a kill lead before destroying OMEGA. It may not be worth losing too much of a kill lead to get OMEGA because it will be difficult to catch up on kills after.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 March 2015 - 10:05 PM.

[Crasher2003]

Thanks Leeroy for mentioning the LRMpocalypse that is norm. That's not being sarcatic at all either. And it equals too many faceplants for the new guys/gals that immediately seem to discourage them going further in CW. Find a group peeps, sign up and learn. It does get better.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Too many LRM boats is bad.
If your team lacks direct-fire mechs, it cannot punch through or defend against a 12-man Timberwolves/Hellbringers push that closes within 180m.

But zero LRM boats is also bad.
It is common to encounter a lot of campers using cover and hilltop mist lynxes with ERLLs.
Zero LRM boats means your team cannot take these out and will keep losing mechs with no kills in exchange.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 March 2015 - 11:16 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

A quick note on consumables:

Although you are certainly not mandated to use arty/airstrike/UAV on every mech every match, it is very nice to have them at all times on each mech. Think about it; all 4 mechs you're using (assuming no trials) have the capability of using UAV/arty support. If the match is going very badly and you don't need to use them, you just keep them. If the match is going extremely well and you don't need them, just keep them! If the match is close and you need anything you can get, use those things!

In order to equip consumables to your mech, you must go into the mechlab, and into the modules area. Each consumable is 40k c-bills. I recommend buying both arty/airstrike and UAV on all your mechs, putting it to auto-refill, and using good trigger discipline to avoid going bankrupt.

Artillery/Airstrikes (not sure of real difference between the two Credit t Connaugh for enlightening me!)) are used by pressing the corresponding button (HOME or INSERT probably) where you want the strike to land. Your team can't use all their strikes at once, though. Ideally you want to place it where the enemy is FORCED to rush, or is already rushing. The huge red smoke and knowledge that hell is gonna rain down is amazing against hard pushes. You can also use it to great effect against attackers, displacing them and preventing 1-5 enemy mechs from blasting your ass.

Artillery gives you the damage around the ordered spot. Good when the enemy is bunched up.

Airstrike gives you the damage from the ordered spot into the direction you are looking at (Imagine an aircraft dropping some bombs.). Good when the enemy is more lined up.

UAV: Leeroy probably knows more than I about UAV. You trigger it, it flies up into the sky and spots things. I believe it will also counter ECM in the area. It can be shot down rather quickly, so it is best to use when the action is already taking place. If you use the UAV too early, the bad guys will see it and shoot it down quickly.

Working third shift behind a PC makes it amazingly easy for me to type of (hopefully) helpful walls of text for people. Thanks for helping me kill time at 3am, boys.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 23 March 2015 - 04:01 AM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Something maybe not many have thought about LRMs:

If you must use them, the second or third mech is the optimal place to put LRM in the dropdeck.
The first enemy wave will be lousy with ECM, good luck getting a lock then.
But by the second or third wave, there will be less ECM mechs and more stragglers/overextenders to LRM.

LRMs on the last mech is useless half the time because by then it can come down to brawling within 180m.

Pick the right mech at the right time for the map and mode, looking at team composition.
When in doubt go high-tonnage medium range mechs, always useful.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 March 2015 - 11:38 PM.

[mxlm]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 22 March 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

But zero LRM boats is also bad.
It is common to encounter a lot of campers using cover and hilltop mist lynxes with ERLLs.
Zero LRM boats means your team cannot take these out and will keep losing mechs with no kills in exchange.

Larger lasers a much better choice for this situation (and is it really common for people to snipe with Mist Lynxes? And if it is, well, that's good for you; they're not contributing a lot doing that). If that's your concern, bring a Stalker. Actually, bring a Stalker anyway. Anything an LRM boat does, the stalker does better.

[DrMike]

Sixth: If possible, equip your mechs with BAPs to counter that mass of ECM mechs of premade groups. Nearly every 2nd mechs seems to carry ECM especially clans (HBR-Prime and MLX-C).

Seventh: Try to carry the RADAR DEPRIVATION modul and/or AMS to defeat the LURMs from MDDs with 6x LRM5.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

mxlm, on 22 March 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

Larger lasers a much better choice for this situation (and is it really common for people to snipe with Mist Lynxes? And if it is, well, that's good for you; they're not contributing a lot doing that). If that's your concern, bring a Stalker. Actually, bring a Stalker anyway. Anything an LRM boat does, the stalker does better.

I definitely recommend Stalkers with large lasers in a drop deck for first wave.
I have one in mine. With 2 AMS and Radar Deprivation heh heh.
They provide a tough meat shield with great range and alpha.
Perfect for fighting Timberwolves and such.
However, its good to elite those Assaults so they move at least at 60-65kph or they get left behind.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 March 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

mxlm, on 22 March 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

Larger lasers a much better choice for this situation (and is it really common for people to snipe with Mist Lynxes? And if it is, well, that's good for you; they're not contributing a lot doing that). If that's your concern, bring a Stalker. Actually, bring a Stalker anyway. Anything an LRM boat does, the stalker does better.

While I agree that large lasers are very powerful, and the Stalker 4N with 6 is a beast and a half, it is good to keep in mind that we are not speaking of forming a perfect team comprised of skilled players. The most effective mech might NOT be the best in this case. Of course, to most of us, firing off LL and shearing arms, torso, legs, and coring people is not hard. However, some are hampered by massive inexperience, very poor connection, very poor PC, etc. Some people will do more damage in an LRM boat, EVEN IF this choice is sub-optimal for an ideal team.

Therefore, it is good to give advice that players will actually heed, rather than perfect advice. Some players I'm sure are dedicated to missile boats, and while dropping 4 is an abysmal idea, they will certainly wish to drop 1-2. Knowing when to drop these mechs is important, as are techniques for using them properly in a team.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 23 March 2015 - 12:00 AM.

[Pz_DC]

Leeroy you have done great thing, same as I was going to do today Now, please, keep it clear and manage to stick at the top. Same time, read comments and keep updating core post with new info.
Now here is my "50 cents":
1) CW - "money sink". Live with it. Use all available consumables, equp modules and so on. But keep in mind - if you, for example, miss with artillery /for some reason/, you waste more the urs one but also make that guy who was ready to drop it same time with you also waste a chanse to deal 100 damage, or stop enemy push with "wall of fire from the sky". Unapdeted artillery/air strikes are close to be totaly useless.
2) Keep an eye on the sky. Enemy UAVs must be killed asap, becouse they provide trageting data for LRMs AND artillery. As for me, I count UAVs as enemy number one, so it deserve my attention even if I'm busy with enemy mechs.
3) Equp BAP, seismic etc. all the time - when you see group of enemy mechs "behind that hill" you can manage to drop well-placed artillery to force them move out of the cover, or other way stop it istead push...
4) Push is MOVEMENT, not firefight. When you pushing, don't stop (by the way - moving is the key.. standing snipers are easy prey. Allways.) unless you have reached destignated location. Push is aimed to break enemy lines, not to do damage, so run INTO enemy but not stop and fire when you face resistance.
5) Use "R" to lock, focus already damaged (smoking) mechs 1st. No doubt - it going to be main advice to ALL players.
6) Drop decks and loadouts.
6.1) Last drop - "filler" becouse when you drop urs last mechs there is high (90% or so) chanse that urs team is already losing (other way why did you wasted 3 mechs?..) so it cant realise all its potential. Dont save "best for the last" - use it at 1 or 2-3 drop, depend on situation.
6.2) LRMs are hard to use in CW and you MUST have tag+bap on board if you going to be LRM-boat. IMHO only catapults, stalkers and battlemasters can boating it in CW well. All other mechs MAY have few LRMs (and, IMHO, it will help a lot) to be able to do some "undirect" damage or disable rare clans AMS. Few LRM5 - great thing to have on any mech, while ther bigger brothers MUST be used ONLY on heavy-assault mechs.
Why catapults, stalkers and battlemasters? Catapults are fast so they can avoid enemy direct fire and able to jump. STK+BLR are fat so they can tank and fire back with tag+lrms. Both STK+BLR can carry good backup weapons so LRM ammo will not be a critical problem.
6.3) DO NOT LET ENEMY SHOOT YOU. Seriosly - clan mechs can do more damage then you in same time, so when you go to "do 20 damage and kill that cored mech" it can strip all urs armor faster then you kill it. Thats why snipers should not carry LLs, its brawlers weapon.
6.4) Again - do not go to exchange damage - you have no way to win this /unless u're better player then clan pilot... heh that is hard to find /.
6.4) Be sure you have at last one ECM in drop deck, as well as one fast jumper - those will find ther use in any fight.
6.5) Drop "dakka-dakka" in 2nd-3rd waves so it can kill already damaged mechs fast and give a team good advantage in current situation.
6.6) Wery often i find myself in 1st wave with no brawlers - that is terrible situation. Be sure you can support hard push/defence at the start, with ecm, brawling or high damage.
6.7) DO NOT FEAR TO GO AND DIE. Guys, PLEASE, realise - we all will die there, so if you can die while keep 3-4+ enemy mechs bisy with you - do it. While enemy will be bisy with do that 100-200 damage to get single kill urs team can do 400-500 damage, and that will be realy good exchange. Same time, "leeroying" (he-he) into enemy lines when there are no teammates around is stupid. By the way - do you know how funny is to rush into whole enemy team on DRG-VTR, drop airstrike and same time got 2-3 kills with "dakka-dakka" while they all are turned back to focus you and run out of artillery? Do you know that feeling when you stop whole pre-made group from push? No? Go try it, for sure - you will love it
6.8) Last advice - do not make "hot" brawlers. Snipers can overheat, chill a bit and keep damaging, while overheated brawler will be dead brawler very fast.

P.S. guys we have one problem here - most of newbeies who realy need to read all this didnt vizit that forum So we need to help PGI find some solution for it - for exmaple, make "extended" toolpits for CW maps or smth like it...

P.S. My own drop deck /that works well for me - at last 700/1k damage if there are some1 to play with/- AWS-9M with 3xERPPC and 3xLRM5 (BAP, max armor and std engine to move with 60 km/h included), AWS-8Q with 2xPPC and 5xMPL, DRG-1N with 2xAC5, LPL+MPL and SPD-5D with ERLL and 2xML (bap, a lot of JJ and ecm included). Consider to chage 8Q but dont know at that moment for what, looks like it going to be bravling VTR-9S with AC10, 2xML and 3xSRM6+artemis (also with max JJ, bap and AMS - only 62 km/h speed stops me, but it may not be critical... still analyzing).

Edited by MGA121285, 23 March 2015 - 04:04 AM.

[Pat Kell]

Just something to consider, the only time we get beat as a twelve man pushing through the gates is when ALL of the enemy is right up front shooting us as we go through. I know it's tempting to sit 800+ meters back and fire those ERLL's without getting shot back but while you are doing less than optimum damage and usually spread across multiple components and mechs, we are focusing your front line mechs down fast. If you truly want to have a chance at winning against an organized team. Get as close tot he gate as you dare, stay in cover and when we push in, jump on us. If you are more than 150 meters behind your most forward mech, we are going to focus him down fast and then turn our attention on to the next guy. We rarely call targets in comms as we usually shoot the closest guy to us so if you can all be up front, sharing the damage we are dishing out, you will have a much better chance at beating us. Sitting in the back with "sniper" builds is the best way to have a birds eye view of your friends dying. Sorry but sniping may work great against random pugs but an organized team will recognize it right away, destroy the front line mechs and laugh while you complain about being spawn camped because you sat in the back all match instead of trying to push us out the gates. FYI, this tactic also prevents spawn camping, meet us at the gates with every mech you have and you stand a chance. Sit in the back while your teammates are being shot and you WILL ALWAYS lose against any semblance of an organized team. against a PUG group, meh, maybe you win, maybe you lose but for every mech you keep at or near the gates preventing the enemy from coming in, you increase your chances of winning.

Of course, if your whole team is snipers, then by all means, sit back and snipe as much as you can but be aware that we will be using cover to advance and it's only a matter of time before we get in close enough to brawl and that's the end of that. My advise is to stop taking snipers all together, use short and mid range weapons (or long range weapons but used in close) and hide near a gate, when we come in, jump on us with SRM's, med lasers or whatever you can stuff on there but I have yet to see an enemy team beat us with snipers or even a mix of snipers. Every time I have gotten beat (since the PPC wall went away at least) has been because the enemy team pressed us hard and brawled with us. That's my advice.

Edited by Pat Kell, 23 March 2015 - 01:03 AM.

[mxlm]

Pat Kell, on 23 March 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

Just something to consider, the only time we get beat as a twelve man pushing through the gates is when ALL of the enemy is right up front shooting us as we go through. I know it's tempting to sit 800+ meters back and fire those ERLL's without getting shot back but while you are doing less than optimum damage and usually spread across multiple components and mechs, we are focusing your front line mechs down fast.

Someone's never run into 12 Stalkers on Boreal. Or F I S S I O N anywhere.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Interesting points from our skilled opponents. Its always a tough challenge to fight you guys.

I gave up on ERLLs because I found that Clan ERLLs are very common, more efficient and longer range. You will just lose a long range fight to the Blue Beam crew. There are always a lot of Blue Beamers (Clan ERLLs)! And ERLLs have low dps to fight a rush.

On the other hand, Large Lasers can be OK on quirked assaults and heavies.
Large Lasers have about the same range as Clan ER Med Lasers but with much worse heat efficiency.
However, some mech chassis has quirks to reduce the heat efficiency difference.
Also, the 10 tons more for IS dropdecks allows IS to take heavier mechs that can carry more heat sinks.

ACs, MLs, MPLs, SRMs are all viable. Depends on quirks and build.

For an Assault or Heavy try to go for at least 30 firepower and 4.5 DPS (which can be seen from Smurfy Mechlab http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/)
A good place for builds is Metamechs http://metamechs.com...h-buying-guide/

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 23 March 2015 - 02:50 AM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Kell, your post was sound. Still, your anecdote isn't amazingly useful for us, and here is why;

This topic is intended for new players. Me and Leeroy have been playing in a time-zone that seems populated by 75 percent PUGs, with maybe half of those being very new players. Our aim is to be able to take on the average clan team. Fighting a 12-man with people on your team that aren't aware of all these things...and barring a miracle or several disconnects, the PUG group will lose.

That doesn't mean it can't be close, or at least fun for most players. But 12-mans should be identified and passed on to other 12-mans or at least >4 organized groups.

The thing Leeroy was trying to avoid is 1-6 people moving up to the gate, and dying while dealing less than 100 damage each. Extremely new players LOVE the gate. Problem is, they'll usually go right up to the middle of it and try to use ML or something 500m out against 6 laser-boats.

Basically, the gate can sometimes be described as a "******-magnet". The worst players will often run right up to the gate regardless of loadout; there can be much better positions for them, especially at their skill level.

Again, your post wasn't incorrect; just pertains to a different situation IMO. if you can somehow jockey 12 mechs quick enough up to the gate that the enemy is attacking, yeah, you'll dookie on them if they continue on that gate. But do you find it feasible that a mostly-PUG team can properly scout, identify that the entire team is at a certain gate, then jockey ALL other 11 players there within 30s or so?

I don't. I've tried. A lot.

Playing and attempting to lead PUGs isn't about the BEST solution. It's about the EASIEST solution, imo.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 23 March 2015 - 02:52 AM.

[Connaugh]

Sandersson Jankins, on 22 March 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

Artillery/Airstrikes (not sure of real difference between the two)

Artillery gives you the damage around the ordered spot. Good when the enemy is bunched up.

Airstrike gives you the damage from the ordered spot into the direction you are looking at (Imagine an aircraft dropping some bombs.). Good when the enemy is more lined up.