21 replies to this topic

[Evan20k]

Since the Clan Quirkening is coming up, I wanted to get the ball rolling on ideas for some of the underpreforming mechs. The goal with these suggestions is not to push every mech up to where the Timberwolf/Stormcrow are right now, but simply elevate them to levels where they are viable choices in some situations or have a niche roll they can fill without simply being outclassed. Obviously Ferro and Endo would help a lot of these mechs, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms (as is unlocking engines) for another topic.

Adder

Spoiler

What's wrong: The Adder is a light that tries being a medium, however it lacks both the durability and firepower to do so. The Adder suffers from somewhat limited, yet workable hardpoints, horrible heat management and tissue paper armor.

Proposed solutions: There's really 2 ways we can go about fixing this. One is to shoehorn it into a more Light-ish role, but I don't believe this is the optimal solution. Instead, what if we started by unlocking that stupid CT flamer, gave it some moderate to large CT and ST armor boosts, a little bit of a torso twist and some better heat management quirks on missiles and PPCs to make it able to provide either long range fire support or function as a cannibal light that excels at using clan missiles to bring down other lights and pick off injured mediums?

Ice Fridge

Spoiler

What's wrong: Jesus, I don't even know where to begin. This thing is Spider 5V levels of bad. No hardpoints, ****** heat management, an oversized engine, lack of tonnage to the point of being outgunned by most Lights.

Proposed solutions: I'll be honest, I got nothing here that wouldn't require ridiculous quirks or massive overhauls. I'll leave this one to more creative minds because this problem is far beyond me.

Gargles

Spoiler

What's wrong: Gargles is a medium trapped in an assault's body, which honestly could work well if handled as such. The biggest issue he has is lack of non-laser hardpoints forcing him into a laser-vomit role and the maneuverability challenges that come with being 80 tons. Having gigantic side torsos and low slung weapons doesn't do him any favors either.

Proposed solutions: The combination of high speed and low weapons encourage a brawler role, so I really think that's what should be encouraged. Gargles needs the torso twist and accel/decel that his inner 55-tonner has been begging for. The Missile/Ballistic arms also need a lot in the way of quirks to make them even remotely worth taking over any of his laser-boat hands. I'd suggest a 15% cooldown to both missile and ballistic per arm. This is a mech that really has the potential to be good if its problems are properly addressed; please PGI help us out here!

Mad Doge

Spoiler

What's wrong: This mech carries a ton of firepower, but suffers from not having the durability on either of its massive STs to effectively brawl with it. It also runs quite hot and cannot stand any prolonged combat. There's also of the non-A variant STs needing some large bonuses so that they're not completely irrelevant.

Proposed Solutions: Big armor ST buffs is what the doctor ordered here. We could explore some heat gen quirks for it, but honestly that may be pushing it a bit far. As said earlier, the non-A variant STs need something extra to incentivize their usage.

Nova

Spoiler

What's wrong: This mech feels like a bad marriage; it's hot and exciting, but eventually falls apart the moment any stress is applied to it.

Proposed Solutions: Definitely in need of a little bit more CT armor and some heat management quirks. Enough to give it a niche role that the Stormcrow doesn't outright do better in every way.

Peacedove

Spoiler

What's wrong: Underarmored, shares a profile with the most dangerous mech in the game, lacks hardpoints and has way too much locked equipment.

Proposed Solutions: This one isn't too hard to fix; unlock the RT. The Peacedove has a role in being one of the most heat efficient clan mechs, so it should be given quirks to play around that strength. The ST's are extremely fragile given how large they are, so I feel like adjusting their hitboxes or providing some armor buffs may be in order given how completely dependent upon them this mech is and how often it's mistaken for a Direwolf.

Summoner

Spoiler

What's wrong: Lowish arms, very limited hardpoints and lacking the crit slots and tonnage and space to carry really large weapons.

Proposed Solutions: Frankly put, I think some of the copy+pasted omnipods need to be reevaluated in their hardpoint decision. The best builds for the Summoner at the moment are either Gauss+4 ERML or Missile Boating, both things other lighter mechs do better. If PGI opts to keep it undergunned, I'd say some mobility (Jumpjet buff?) quirks are in order. I'd definitely prefer it being able to hold its own as a heavy in a fight though and this is one of the few clan mechs that I think large weapon quirks are in order for.

[badaa]

its not that they under perform its that they cant be meta-ed so they consider bad

[Stealth Fox]

badaa, on 24 March 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

its not that they under perform its that they cant be meta-ed so they consider bad

No.. I'm pretty sure they are bad because there is no chance in hell you are going to win to a IS mech that is even half decent..

nice try though.

[Evan20k]

badaa, on 24 March 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

its not that they under perform its that they cant be meta-ed so they consider bad

A metagame will develop if you study any game enough. Trying to blame the metagame's existence for a mech's problems is just nonsensical. While it's true that the current metagame doesn't favor some mechs (Poor Atlas...), that's a completely different issue than a metagame existing or lack thereof at all.

[Yokaiko]

badaa, on 24 March 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

its not that they under perform its that they cant be meta-ed so they consider bad

No Ice Ferret, Myst Lynx and Gargoyle are actually very very bad.

Kitfox, Adder Nova, Mad Dog and Nova are usable, but its like playing hard mode.

Hellbringer, Stormcrow, Timberwolf and Direwolf are good.

[Burktross]

Seph MacLeod, on 24 March 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

No.. I'm pretty sure they are bad because there is no chance in hell you are going to win to a IS mech that is even half decent..

nice try though.

quoted for painful truth

[Nothing Whatsoever]

For the ones I've gotten so far:

Mist Lynx - I love this little guy, as a nutty Commando pilot. It needs good armor and structure quirks and it needs its fall velocity adjusted so that it doesn't take as much damage as it currently does with its six floaty Jump Jets. Then give it a bit more Jump Jet velocity.

Kit Fox - Give it some armor and structure quirks. Consider beam duration quirks.

Adder - Buff Torso sections, some quirks for structure to the STs and Armor for the CT.


Ice Ferret - I'd give it quirks for shorter beam duration with lasers so it can fire on the go better and then maybe consider a bit more on Heat Generation Quirks, so that it could run a tad cooler with its loadouts. This mech needs to make use of its speed and agility. I'm liking it so far as a Skirmisher.

Nova - It needs, something for its legs, some structure and/or armor for the legs. Then some structure for the arms and armor for the torsos. Maybe a tad for more overall agility with twisting and arm movement.

[Ryokens leap]

Out of shear boredom I've been outfitting my lesser Omnis with quirk load outs boosted by cool down modules, ie: Summoner with CERPPC, CLBX10 & CSRMs or Gargoyle with CERPPC, CLBX10 & CERMLs, ect. The rate of fire is quite surprising and when used in a burst play style performs quite well. I can fire 2 LBX for every PPC and combined with movement quirks ( and jj's on Summoner) makes for a pretty aggressive burst fire build.

[Bulletsponge0]

Praetor Knight, on 24 March 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

For the ones I've gotten so far:

Mist Lynx - I love this little guy, as a nutty Commando pilot. It needs good armor and structure quirks and it needs its fall velocity adjusted so that it doesn't take as much damage as it currently does with its six floaty Jump Jets. Then give it a bit more Jump Jet velocity.

Kit Fox - Give it some armor and structure quirks. Consider beam duration quirks.

Adder - Buff Torso sections, some quirks for structure to the STs and Armor for the CT.


Ice Ferret - I'd give it quirks for shorter beam duration with lasers so it can fire on the go better and then maybe consider a bit more on Heat Generation Quirks, so that it could run a tad cooler with its loadouts. This mech needs to make use of its speed and agility. I'm liking it so far as a Skirmisher.

Nova - It needs, something for its legs, some structure and/or armor for the legs. Then some structure for the arms and armor for the torsos. Maybe a tad for more overall agility with twisting and arm movement.

adder needs heat quirks more than anything

[Yokaiko]

Bulletsponge0, on 24 March 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

adder needs heat quirks more than anything

Too bad they made it hotter with that ROF quirk.....

[Bulletsponge0]

Yokaiko, on 24 March 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Too bad they made it hotter with that ROF quirk.....

yup..... they went the other way with it.... a buff that is actually a nerf

[Nothing Whatsoever]

That works for me with the Adder!

[FupDup]

I already sorta handled the Puma's quirks:

FupDup, on 22 March 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

All right, I'm going to actually take some time and churn out some Puma quirks that could actually help the little gundam be more effective and worthwhile. I'm going to run through each variant one at a time and try to think up some quirks that fulfill these criterion:

• Are useful
  
• Inspired by the stock loadout (i.e. if it comes with ERPPCs, it's gonna get more effective ERPPCs)...
  
• ...But with a little bit of leeway here and there for flexability
  
• Are possible within the current implementation of quirks (work with what we've got)
  
• Help the mech compensate for some of its innate weaknesses

Also note that the values I choose below may seem somewhat conversative or maybe too high in some cases. It's hard to tell while writing these things up. Don’t get too caught up with the minute details.



Let’s get started…

ADR-PRIME

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-PRIME

Quirks:
ADR-Prime Center Torso: +6 Internal Structure, +5% ERPPC Velocity, +5% Ballistic Velocity
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that.

The velocity buffs help distinguish this variant as being the most accurate with projectile-based weaponry.


ADR-Prime Left Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Acceleration, +12.5% Deceleration
Logic: This variant's frontloaded guns are used best with a peak-and-hide playstyle, which differs from laser puking. These quirks help the little guy be a better hill/corner humper.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-Prime Right Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Acceleration, +12.5% Deceleration
Logic: This variant's frontloaded guns are used best with a peak-and-hide playstyle, which differs from laser puking. These quirks help the little guy be a better hill/corner humper.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-Prime Left Arm: + 7.5% ERPPC Velocity, -7.5% ERPPC Heat, +7.5% Torso Twist Rate
Logic: These are the main and only guns of the stock Prime. Pretty straightforward.

The torso twist agility helps compensate for the Prime lacking lower arm actuators.


ADR-Prime Right Arm: +7.5% ERPPC Velocity, -7.5% ERPPC Heat, +7.5% Torso Twist Rate
Logic: These are the main and only guns of the stock Prime. Pretty straightforward.

The torso twist agility helps compensate for the Prime lacking lower arm actuators.


ADR-Prime Left Torso: -5% Energy Heat, +10% Heat Dissipation Rate
Logic: This location contains an additional Double Heatsink compared to the base configuration. DHS improve your heat management. So, this location's quirks help improve your heat efficiency.


ADR-Prime Right Torso: +25% ERPPC Velocity, +25% Ballistic Velocity, -15% Laser Duration
Logic: This location comes equipped stock with a Targeting Computer. This equipment improves your accuracy for direct-fire weapons. These quirks make ballistics and energy more accurate.

ADR-A

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-A

Quirks:
ADR-A Center Torso: +6 Internal Structure, -5% Missile Spread, +5% Missile Cooldown
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that.

The missile spread gives a small nudge intended to make this variant a little bit better with missile accuracy (LRMs and SRMs). The missile cooldown helps this one be the best overall missile boat of the group.


ADR-A Left Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Turning Rate
Logic: Honestly, I just wanted a variant, any variant, to get faster turning as an agility bonus. I arbitrarily chose the ADR-A for this role.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-A Right Leg: +12 Internal Structure, +12.5% Turning Rate
Logic: Honestly, I just wanted a variant, any variant, to get faster turning as an agility bonus. I arbitrarily chose the ADR-A for this role.

The leg internal health boost is already in effect.


ADR-A Left Arm: +7.5% LRM Cooldown, +2.5% Missile Cooldown, -7.5% LRM Spread, -2.5% Missile Spread
Logic: This location comes stock with an LRM20. It has a slow cooldown and a wide spread. These quirks help cover those issues.


ADR-A Right Arm: +7.5% LRM Cooldown, +2.5% Missile Cooldown, -7.5% LRM Spread, -2.5% Missile Spread
Logic: This location comes stock with an LRM20. It has a slow cooldown and a wide spread. These quirks help cover those issues.


ADR-A Left Torso: +7.5% Pulse Laser Cooldown
Logic: This location contains a Small Pulse Laser stock. When we look at the other body parts, we can see that this weapon is meant as backup for when the main guns (LRMs) can’t attack due to their minimum range. The cooldown quirks increase the damage output of the guns equipped in the side torsos.


ADR-A Right Torso: +7.5% Pulse Laser Cooldown
Logic: This location contains a Small Pulse Laser stock. When we look at the other body parts, we can see that this weapon is meant as backup for when the main guns (LRMs) can’t attack due to their minimum range. The cooldown quirks increase the damage output of the guns equipped in the side torsos.

ADR-B

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-B

Quirks:
ADR-B Center Torso: +3 Internal Structure, -5% Energy Heat
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that.

The reduced energy heat is because this variant equips more energy weapons stock than any other. This is the laser vomit variant, basically.

The internal structure boost was reduced to compensate for the sheer utility of reduced heat (which is IMO the best individual quirk in the game).


ADR-B Left Leg: +16 Internal Structure
Logic: This variant gets the toughest legs because of reasons. It’s arbitrary really.


ADR-B Right Leg: +16 Internal Structure
Logic: This variant gets the toughest legs because of reasons. It’s arbitrary really.


ADR-B Left Arm: +10% LBX Cooldown, +5% Ballistic Cooldown, -15% LBX Spread
Logic: This location comes stock with an LB 5-X. It has lower damage per ton than energy (the best choice for lights) and has a wide spread. These quirks help address that.


ADR-B Right Arm: -5% Pulse Laser Heat
Logic: This location comes stock with a Large Pulse Laser. It already has excellent range, so no range quirk is really needed. It has good damage, so cooldown isn’t really needed. That leaves just heat. The value is fairly small here because reduced energy heat is such a powerful quirk by itself.


ADR-B Left Torso: +5% ER Laser Range, -2.5% ER Laser Heat
Logic: The default weapon here is an ER Medium Laser. More range helps it be more pokey-skirmishy. Reduced heat helps it be a bit more of a backup weapon.


ADR-B Right Torso: +5% ER Laser Range, -2.5% ER Laser Heat
Logic: The default weapon here is an ER Medium Laser. More range helps it be more pokey-skirmishy. Reduced heat helps it be a bit more of a backup weapon.

ADR-D

Spoiler

Stock loadout for inspiration: ADR-D

Quirks:
ADR-D Center Torso: +10 Internal Structure
Logic: The Adder's center torso hitbox pokes out further than the sides and arms, which makes it a bit of a bullet magnet. This helps with that. It has a higher boost than other variants because I can’t think of secondary weapon quirks to attach with it. It has all three weapon types (energy/ballistic/missile) and can engage at all ranges, so it’s a generalist build. This is the best I can think of right now.


ADR-D Left Leg: +3 Internal Structure, +5% Top Speed
Logic: I gave it a small speed boost because I ran out of ideas. There’s already an agility variant, hillhumper variant, and a tough variant. This is literally all I could think of. The internal structure quirk got reduced a lot because of how useful this speed is.


ADR-D Right Leg: +3 Internal Structure, +5% Top Speed
Logic: I gave it a small speed boost because I ran out of ideas. There’s already an agility variant, hillhumper variant, and a tough variant. This is literally all I could think of. The internal structure quirk got reduced a lot because of how useful this speed is.


ADR-D Left Arm: -10% ER Laser Duration
Logic: This location is equipped stock with an ER Large Laser. Its biggest weakness by far is its long beam duration.


ADR-D Right Arm: +10% UAC Cooldown, +5% Ballistic Cooldown, -5% UAC Jam Rate (Additive, not multiplicative!)
Logic: This location comes stock with a UAC/5. It has lower damage per ton than energy (the best choice for lights) and has an annoying tendency to jam up. These quirks help it compete with energy on a basis of damage output.


ADR-D Left Torso: +10% SSRM Cooldown, +2.5% Missile Cooldown
Logic: The default weapon here is an SSRM2. This weapon isn’t particularly strong when not boated, due to both RNG targeting and a slowish cooldown. This helps alleviate that.

This weapon is also clearly meant as a short-range backup option if the long-range main guns couldn’t finish off the enemy robot before he got close.


ADR-D Right Torso: +10% SSRM Cooldown, +2,5% Missile Cooldown
Logic: The default weapon here is an SSRM2. This weapon isn’t particularly strong when not boated, due to both RNG targeting and a slowish cooldown. This helps alleviate that.

This weapon is also clearly meant as a short-range backup option if the long-range main guns couldn’t finish off the enemy robot before he got close.

Thoughts? Values too high or too low, just right? Is the general idea good even if the specific values are off?

Edited by FupDup, 24 March 2015 - 05:47 PM.

[Stealth Fox]

FupDup, on 24 March 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

I already sorta handled the Puma's quirks:

you COULD call it an ADDER.. you're no freebirth

[FupDup]

Seph MacLeod, on 24 March 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

you COULD call it an ADDER.. you're no freebirth

"Puma" is like a 100x times better name for a mech than "Adder."


I could meet you halfway and call it the Badder. That works.

Edited by FupDup, 24 March 2015 - 05:46 PM.

[badaa]

Seph MacLeod, on 24 March 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

No.. I'm pretty sure they are bad because there is no chance in hell you are going to win to a IS mech that is even half decent..

nice try though.

then ur doing it wrong

[LordKnightFandragon]

PeaceDove? Since quirks are omnipod specific on clans

WHK-Prime
LA/RA: Same quirks: +25% CERPPC Pin point damage(15 damage)
+12.5% CERPPC cooldown(5s CERPPC CD)

CT: +10% CERPPC Velocity
-2.5% MIssile spread

LT: +15% Heat dissipation(the mech has like 20 locked 1.4 Heat sinks, its 30% short)

[Stealth Fox]

FupDup, on 24 March 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

"Puma" is like a 100x times better name for a mech than "Adder."


I could meet you halfway and call it the Badder. That works.

Pumma? I like to call it the Warthog.. =I But yeah no..this mech right now does not deserve a badass name. Badder it is..

badaa, on 24 March 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

then ur doing it wrong

Notice how all the people who actually know what they are talking about... disagree with you. I would say "nice troll" but it was a terrible attempt at logic or trolling so I will simply say shove off.. I am pretty sure I remember playing with you any way.. you are no stellar pilot.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

What's wrong with Adder? it's a name for a venomous snake.

[Red1769]

To expand on Lordknight, if the more pp fld quirk can't be used, I'd go with heat gen for the ERPPCs. If it can, I'd say do the same thing for the Adder prime's arms.

Both Adder and Kit Fox are kinda like pocket mediums. Only reason Cute Fox has more utility is because of the one arm, which is the only one I can see having defensive quirks. Otherwise, both need weapon quirks. Should be seen as to who I agree with most.