131 replies to this topic

[Spr1ggan]

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

Of course its called BATTLEMech like in BattleShip derivate from Ship of the Battle Line - derivate from the line of pre "Zündnadelgewehr" - era .
So the Mech of the BatteLine is exactly what is supposed to do

Last I checked ground combat and naval combat are different. Anyway nothing but stationary line v line play is boring as ****.

[Karl Streiger]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

Anyway nothing but stationary line v line play is boring as ****.

a thousand years of war want to disagree - and i could say - if i want to play nascar i would use another game
BattleMech Combat is about bravado and chivalry - or in any other case Combined Arms - and the BattleMech is no tank - because there are tanks for the tank roll

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 March 2015 - 05:04 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

All this community want is Napoleonic stationary line formation versus line formation.

Yes and no. Too many want that. Others, they want Lexington and Concord. The enemy must line up in clean lines and present themselves for the fight while they hide behind every rock, tree and outhouse to shoot them.

Or this as an example.

[Kjudoon]

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

a thousand years of war want to disagree - and i could say - if i want to play nascar i would use another game
BattleMech Combat is about bravado and chivalry - or in any other case Combined Arms - and the BattleMech is no tank - because there are tanks for the tank roll

Here's the catch, only serious role players are going to try even a little to emulate "true lore" tactics and behavior. Everyone else is going to mimic Halo and modern combat tactics. Sorry, but the lore re-enactors are outnumbered here by gamers who don't give a fig for what the game was. They're going to exploit and use every modern trick in the book.

[Kmieciu]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

They're going to exploit and use every modern trick in the book.

Like the bunny hopping?

Fortunately, Russ thinks it's anticlimactic in a Battletech game and it will finally be dealt with.

Probably because of the decline in Clan Wave I sales :-)

Edited by Kmieciu, 26 March 2015 - 05:19 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Tapping your jumpjet button is not an 'exploit' - exploiting is abusing obviously non intended flaws in the mechanics of a game, like knowing there is a hole in the map geometry that allows you to get inside a building and shoot people when they cant see you, and then heading to that spot, moving in the way you know you need to to get in and gleefully shooting at people that cant fight back. You push your JJ key and let go, your mech animates. As far as anyone playing the game knows, it is intended to work that way, because they are not doing ANYTHING unusual.

It should absolutely be fixed, because it gives far too much reward for far too little effort (anyone saying repeatedly mashing spacebar is some kind of skillful defence is deluded or lying), but that doesn't make people using the game as it is presented to them 'cheaters'. Note that PGI have not said anything on the lines of 'people bunny hopping will be banned/punished' - because that would be RIDICULOUS of them, they just need to fix the animations and they know it.

Trying to add additional rules to a game based on some kind of honor code is just dumb, nothing will make others follow suit, so you are simply disadvantaging yourself. Play the game as it is, and ask the developers to change stupid mechanics.

Read this, it applies:

http://www.sirlin.ne.../playing-to-win

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 26 March 2015 - 05:24 AM.

[Kjudoon]

There's only so much you can do to massage how the game plays before people throw up their hands and say "I'm out this is stupid."

I'm worried less about Bunnyhopping because it's takes effort and focus to do it well. There are other big problems with the game that need remedy before bunny hopping. Specifically the end of perfect convergence. Then again, fixing that will alienate every last "pro" and tryhard who make their living exploiting that flaw.

[Spr1ggan]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Here's the catch, only serious role players are going to try even a little to emulate "true lore" tactics and behavior. Everyone else is going to mimic Halo and modern combat tactics. Sorry, but the lore re-enactors are outnumbered here by gamers who don't give a fig for what the game was. They're going to exploit and use every modern trick in the book.

PGI had the chance to build a mech simulator, they made an FPS instead. You can tell by how the maps are designed and how FPS the game controls.

Now if they want to do a full SIngleplayer campaign that has a more lore and mech sim feel to it then great, I'd buy it.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 26 March 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

I'm worried less about Bunnyhopping because it's takes effort and focus to do it well.

Whut?

1) place thumb on spacebar
2) depress thumb
3) release spacebar
4) repeat steps 2 and 3 until enemy is dead or out of LOS
5) profit

Very effort. much focus. wow.

[Kjudoon]

I guess I make it harder than it needs to be, but according to some people who've tried to blow my Panthers to pieces, it's insane. I don't beleive in straight lines or clean shots on my torsos and have learned that the torso twist can affect the direction of travel making it even harder to hit.

Still, that's more effort than running ECM or AMS or a Firecheater.

Edited by Kjudoon, 26 March 2015 - 06:00 AM.

[Spr1ggan]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 March 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Whut?

1) place thumb on spacebar
2) depress thumb
3) release spacebar
4) repeat steps 2 and 3 until enemy is dead or out of LOS
5) profit

Very effort. much focus. wow.

Well someone that just mashes like a lot people claim is all that's required, won't get very far. Mashing it doesn't really trigger the desired hop to throw aim off. So there is timing involved but no it doesn't take much effort to learn.

[Kjudoon]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

Well someone that just mashes like a lot people claim is all that's required, won't get very far. Mashing it doesn't really trigger the desired hop to throw aim off. So there is timing involved but no it doesn't take much effort to learn.

As I've said in other threads, it's easy to do things badly.

That said, bunnyhopping really is a low skill thing if all you're doing is running away in a straight line without twisting a torso.

maybe I'm doing it wrong. I dunno.

[Spr1ggan]

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

a thousand years of war want to disagree - and i could say - if i want to play nascar i would use another game
BattleMech Combat is about bravado and chivalry - or in any other case Combined Arms - and the BattleMech is no tank - because there are tanks for the tank roll

I fail to see how non stagnant stationary play automatically equals Nascar. You can be aggressive, attain positions, angles of fire without Nacaring around like idiots. You must have very little experience of group or comp play.

[InRev]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

Well someone that just mashes like a lot people claim is all that's required, won't get very far. Mashing it doesn't really trigger the desired hop to throw aim off. So there is timing involved but no it doesn't take much effort to learn.

I think that's kind of the whole point of the shitstorm. Any schmuck can do it pretty effortlessly and it grants a rather sizeable advantage that is not skill based, but rather is due to ****** coding and lazy QA.

This: http://www.twitch.tv/ngngtv/v/3935412

completely confuses both players and the game's own hitreg and it takes a minimal amount of effort or skill ("I just tap . . . that's all. I'm not holding this down . . . that's all I'm doing. I'm just tapping.") Now I can understand people using whatever advantage they can get their hands on, but to actually defend the broken Timby bunnyhop animation as some sort of skill maneuver is just laughable. It's not skill. It's a crutch. The harder people defend their crutches, the more pathetic they look.

To passively-aggressively berate players for wanting it to be fixed is even worse. It's broken, pure and simple. It's an exploit of poor design that should have been fixed a long-ass time ago but PGI has been dropping the ball.

So, please people, let's leave the patronizing attitudes at the door.

Edited by InRev, 26 March 2015 - 06:58 AM.

[Sorbic]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

It's not an unfair advantage when anyone with JJ's can do it. The fact of the matter is that guys like you refuse to learn how to bunny hop properly or just outright don't do it. Then when you get beaten by someone that does, you throw your toys out of the pram and cry about it.

If I see an enemy in a TBR or Griffin for example and they aren't using their jj's to throw my aim then they are just bad.

No matter how hard I try I just can't get my Atlas to take advantage of this exploit...

[Kjudoon]

I agree it should be fixed. How high on the priority queue should it be? Here's a list of big problems PGI needs to address, let's see what should the priority be?

Automatic Convergence
ECM magic shield effect
AMS shooting through solid objects providing unblockable coverage
Broken hit boxes on certain mechs
Broken Hit Registration
CW: Part 3 - Logistics

Those are the biggest issues right now facing PGI. Fixing Bunnyhopping should be where and should this list order change? What have I forgotten that's more important than any of these?

[Karl Streiger]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

You must have very little experience of group or comp play.

Of course not - i wouldn't stand a second of you guys playing it wrong

and i wouldn't care if you have xp since MW4 - your vision of CompMWO and my Vision of Epic Battles are different - i prefer to have my personal 5seconds of glory rather than weeks of winning with CompMWO games

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 March 2015 - 07:06 AM.

[Spr1ggan]

Sorbic, on 26 March 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

No matter how hard I try I just can't get my Atlas to take advantage of this exploit...

I did say "when anyone with JJ's can do it". The Atlas has bigger problems than not being able to jj.

[Kjudoon]

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

Of course not - i wouldn't stand a second of you guys playing it wrong

and i wouldn't care if you have xp since MW4 - your vision of CompMWO and my Vision of Epic Battles are different - i prefer to have my personal 5seconds of glory rather than weeks of winning with CompMWO games

Reminds me of what I heard about professional gamblers at the Blackjack table. It's not fun, it's work. They sit and grind and grind and grind, playing the odds and hand after hand to win money. Those "pro" teams do just that with this game.

At least there, they're against the house, not against other players. This is more like poker, and let's face it, most people shouldn't be playing with professional poker players. We may get lucky, but most of the time, no. We lose our shirts.

Edited by Kjudoon, 26 March 2015 - 07:12 AM.

[Spr1ggan]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

Reminds me of what I heard about professional gamblers at the Blackjack table. It's not fun, it's work. They sit and grind and grind and grind, playing the odds and hand after hand to win money.

At least there, they're against the house, not against other players. This is more like poker, and let's face it, most people shouldn't be playing with professional poker players. We may get lucky, but most of the time, no. We lose our shirts.

Agreed. But wasn't the original vision of CW supposed to rectify that? It was supposed to be group/unit versus unit only and just ended up being unit versus randoms.