131 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

Well someone that just mashes like a lot people claim is all that's required, won't get very far. Mashing it doesn't really trigger the desired hop to throw aim off. So there is timing involved but no it doesn't take much effort to learn.

Macros are your friend.

<runs for the hills>

Edited by Mystere, 26 March 2015 - 07:18 AM.

[Sorbic]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

I did say "when anyone with JJ's can do it". The Atlas has bigger problems than not being able to jj.

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

I did say "when anyone with JJ's can do it". The Atlas has bigger problems than not being able to jj.

You did. And I was pointing out it's not an exploit that everyone could take advantage of.

[Mystere]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

What have I forgotten that's more important than any of these?

Invisible walls extending from terrain edges and surfaces.

[Widowmaker1981]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

I agree it should be fixed. How high on the priority queue should it be? Here's a list of big problems PGI needs to address, let's see what should the priority be?

Automatic Convergence
ECM magic shield effect
AMS shooting through solid objects providing unblockable coverage
Broken hit boxes on certain mechs
Broken Hit Registration
CW: Part 3 - Logistics

Those are the biggest issues right now facing PGI. Fixing Bunnyhopping should be where and should this list order change? What have I forgotten that's more important than any of these?

For crying out loud.

Do you know why convergence was moved from delayed to instant? Because delayed convergence does not play well with HSR, at all.

HSR is essential in a server authoritative game environment like this, or you have to aim into empty space by a variable amount depending on targets ping.

Server authoritative is essential because otherwise the game would be hacked to hell and back (dont try to deny it, it would be)

So we are stuck with instant convergence of weapons (or at least no delayed convergence based on aiming point changes) unless we either remove HSR (id quit instantly) or switch to client auth (everyone would quit except hackers). This has been explained on here god knows how many times, but its always ignored... is it really so bad to have your guns converge like they do? doesn't bother me much...

Bunnyhopping causes about 80% of the forum QQ about Timberwolves (and by extension about clans OP). Compared to the AMS issue its.. huge. enormous. gigantic. Hitreg seems fine to me most of the time (there are exceptions ill grant). Broken hitboxes is kinda a FS9 and SCR issue only and not a gigantic deal really. ECM could do with reworking, sure.. but its a big undertaking since it would require a redesign on everything connected to it. Logistics.. meh. real, serious P2W dangers in there given you can buy ingame money for real life money.

[Karl Streiger]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 March 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

For crying out loud.

Do you know why convergence was moved from delayed to instant? Because delayed convergence does not play well with HSR, at all.

HSR is essential in a server authoritative game environment like this, or you have to aim into empty space by a variable amount depending on targets ping.

its not that it was impossible to hit and kill without HSR and delayed convergence.
lights were a problem - but not much difference to current lights - and before they become a problem you could have charged them in you 100kph CN9-AL or speed HBG-4P - knocked them down - and cut there leg the moment they stood again (not a second before)

[Lightfoot]

I would make the Jump-jets work as in Battle Tech first which have Assaults being able to jump to about 3 times the height of a mech and then whatever distance they can cover. The height is needed to do DFA's which is canon.

Death From Above....



Those are correct Jump-jets and I don't care about bugs as much as getting the Jump-jets correct for maneuvering. If jump-jets are not for shooting with, well block shooting while jump-jets are active, but they need to allow the mech to do basic jump-jet maneuvers and not just be adjusted for controlling 3PV poptarting and Bugs.

[Haakon Magnusson]

This "bug" annoys me to no end... it should be exploited to the fullest to force PGI deal with this quickly. (EDIT, or until they come out clean and say there is a problem and it is an exploit which will be fixed quickly)

Keeping these hidden and few exploiting it is worst case scenario, bigger the secret exploit is the worse it does to games rep. Hopefully these incoming fixes work.. and people should try to exploit this further to bring out possible flaws which didn't show up in testing.

Edited by Haakon Magnusson, 26 March 2015 - 07:43 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

Agreed. But wasn't the original vision of CW supposed to rectify that? It was supposed to be group/unit versus unit only and just ended up being unit versus randoms.

"Supposed to" versus "did" seems to be the crux of the issue.

Most hardcore units are saying CW is a joke because of the amount of time they have to devote and people they have is even too much for their guys. Burnout is extreme and this "Beta" state is ticking people off. Nobody's sure if the light they see is the end of the tunnel or oncoming train.

So they're trolling the bejebus out of the Group Queue, making it so bad, I can't play casual there with one or two friends without getting turned into a pinata. Of course, the Solo Queue is back to being jam packed full of derp I wanna shoot myself.

[Widowmaker1981]

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

its not that it was impossible to hit and kill without HSR and delayed convergence.
lights were a problem - but not much difference to current lights - and before they become a problem you could have charged them in you 100kph CN9-AL or speed HBG-4P - knocked them down - and cut there leg the moment they stood again (not a second before)

Its not a matter of 'impossible' - if i have to shoot my hitscan weapon into empty space to hit my target, that looks utterly absurd and would make me quit, instantly, even though i could learn to do it, id rather play a game where i actually hit where it looks like im hitting.

[Karl Streiger]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 March 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

Its not a matter of 'impossible' - if i have to shoot my hitscan weapon into empty space to hit my target, that looks utterly absurd and would make me quit, instantly, even though i could learn to do it, id rather play a game where i actually hit where it looks like im hitting.

problem is the ping difference and HSR causes "auto" hits. when ever I'm shoting someone with a lower ping NA(two digets) (have EU ~120) using PPCs it sometimes look like an "aimbot".
For example i fired at a target and my shots "hit" a building - but still the damage did count - or a light is running through my vision - and i simple hover the button over it and hit fire.... in most cases the shot hit - spider in mid air - firing AC 10 and PPC - PPC hit - AC 10 miss
while in the other direction - higher ping - then i may see shots that hit - but don't count - or in other cases you die and don't even know what hit you. Even on death screen - you read AC 2 as the last thing that hit you - well your armor was still intact after you was in combat with that guy and his AC 2.

maybe the weird stuff changes from weird MKI into weird MKII - but its still weird

[Mystere]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 March 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

For crying out loud.

Do you know why convergence was moved from delayed to instant? Because delayed convergence does not play well with HSR, at all.

HSR is essential in a server authoritative game environment like this, or you have to aim into empty space by a variable amount depending on targets ping.

Server authoritative is essential because otherwise the game would be hacked to hell and back (dont try to deny it, it would be)

Which is why I have been suggesting fixed convergence (with arm-mounted weapons independent of torso and head-mounted ones), with the convergence point dialed in by the player in the Mechlab and during battle.

[Kjudoon]

Oh have fun. Make it like ww2 fighters. You have it set for x meters out. Best get your sweet spot right.

[Spr1ggan]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

"Supposed to" versus "did" seems to be the crux of the issue.

Most hardcore units are saying CW is a joke because of the amount of time they have to devote and people they have is even too much for their guys. Burnout is extreme and this "Beta" state is ticking people off. Nobody's sure if the light they see is the end of the tunnel or oncoming train.

So they're trolling the bejebus out of the Group Queue, making it so bad, I can't play casual there with one or two friends without getting turned into a pinata. Of course, the Solo Queue is back to being jam packed full of derp I wanna shoot myself.

The reason most units think CW is a joke is because when we played it we rarely came up against other units. Dropped against randoms that just got crushed most of the time and it became very boring. And even though you were winning all your drops you were still losing the planet or making no progress on it.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 26 March 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Oh have fun. Make it like ww2 fighters. You have it set for x meters out. Best get your sweet spot right.

or simple take the effective range - what to hit that spot at half range - aim more left - fire - aim more right fire

[Spr1ggan]

Mystere, on 26 March 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Macros are your friend.

<runs for the hills>

Yeah I don't and have never used macros. Don't see the need to be honest.

Plenty of folk use them with stacked ballistics though, probably more using them for that than jj's.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 26 March 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Spr1ggan, on 26 March 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

The reason most units think CW is a joke is because when we played it we rarely came up against other units. Dropped against randoms that just got crushed most of the time and it became very boring. And even though you were winning all your drops you were still losing the planet or making no progress on it.

mmmmmyep.

Ghost drops win planets. /cw

I've put up my big solution out there. I don't see them taking it seriously.

The pace of CW is too fast, conquest of planets is too easy, and has no reason for being played save changing the color of little dots which is now boring to most.

The forum fracas about it all has gone from hillarious and kinda fun to strained to downright juvinile urination matches between a select few who haven't read the memo, most don't care and you don't have any control.

I play it to see the new maps, but never without a full organized 12man anymore If we hit another unit, great! If we hit pugs, that's fine, if we ghost drop, till the maps show up in testing grounds, I'm doing map work and practice.

[Spr1ggan]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

mmmmmyep.

Ghost drops win planets. /cw

I've put up my big solution out there. I don't see them taking it seriously.

The pace of CW is too fast, conquest of planets is too easy, and has no reason for being played save changing the color of little dots which is now boring to most.

The forum fracas about it all has gone from hillarious and kinda fun to strained to downright juvinile urination matches between a select few who haven't read the memo, most don't care and you don't have any control.

I play it to see the new maps, but never without a full organized 12man anymore If we hit another unit, great! If we hit pugs, that's fine, if we ghost drop, till the maps show up in testing grounds, I'm doing map work and practice.

I'd actually like to see minor planets be taken over fairly quickly. But then they can have planets of importance, these would have a whole campaign to take the planet.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 26 March 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[Mystere]

Kjudoon, on 26 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Oh have fun. Make it like ww2 fighters. You have it set for x meters out. Best get your sweet spot right.

Well, I'm not about to suggest something that I myself am incapable of accomplishing.

Besides, from my point of view anyway, being forced to aim more than one weapon and getting the sweet spot right requires more skill. Don't you think so?

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

or simple take the effective range - what to hit that spot at half range - aim more left - fire - aim more right fire

That's certainly one way of doing it.

Edited by Mystere, 26 March 2015 - 08:32 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Sarlic, on 26 March 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

I never implyed that you were using it. But:

When you use it, i call you a exploiter. Simple as it is. Any half brained monkey can see that something is not right. Your version of MWO consists to take everything for the win. Which is fairly pathetic if you gain a unfair advantage which can certainly decide the outcome of a match. Regardless of any build you take: the broken gamemechanic is still there.

When a unfair advantage can be match deciding then it's simply a exploit.

Like i said: poop on a stick argument. You are trying to bend every aspect of a unfair advantange right in this game.

As per Russ. Finally. I hope it's worth it.

You're completely failing to miss the point. You do not have the authority to decide that something is 'unfair.' You sound completely ridiculous doing so. Is it unfair for people to bring optimized loadouts? Is it unfair for people to torso twist? Is it unfair for people to position themselves with intelligence?

Bunny hopping is a stupid mechanic. It however, is NOT an exploit because it is a demonstrated game mechanic that has existed in this game since closed beta. You can complain about the mechanic all you want and request for it to go away, that's fine. Trying to brand people that use it, however, as cheaters, loses you all credibility.

I suppose the entire Melee scene is cheaters because wavedashing obviously wasn't intended. Or the Tribes scene because skiing wasn't. Or even GunZ because omg animation canceling such hacks.

Games develop past a developer's intention. It's what generally makes them fun.

Edited by Adiuvo, 26 March 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[Sarlic]

Adiuvo, on 26 March 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

You're completely failing to miss the point. You do not have the authority to decide that something is 'unfair.' You sound completely ridiculous doing so. Is it unfair for people to bring optimized loadouts? Is it unfair for people to torso twist? Is it unfair for people to position themselves with intelligence?

Bunny hopping is a stupid mechanic. It however, is NOT an exploit because it is a demonstrated game mechanic that has existed in this game since closed beta. You can complain about the mechanic all you want and request for it to go away, that's fine. Trying to brand people that use it, however, as cheaters, loses you all credibility.

I suppose the entire Melee scene is cheaters because wavedashing obviously wasn't intended. Or the Tribes scene because skiing wasn't. Or even GunZ because omg animation canceling such hacks.

Games develop past a developer's intention. It's what generally makes them fun.

Quote

You're completely failing to miss the point. You do not have the authority to decide that something is 'unfair.' You sound completely ridiculous doing so.

I am sorry. But did you honestly write that up with a steel face?

In case if you are serious. You just lost your own creditbility. You just have proven my point.

I am sorry. But you don't deserve to play Mechwarrior Online, and frankly you don't deserve to even get labeld as a comptitive player. I think i just know about enough how i can label you.

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Bunny hopping is a stupid mechanic. It however, is NOT an exploit because it is a demonstrated game mechanic that has existed in this game since closed beta.

See this little line below?

Quote

When a unfair advantage can be match deciding then it's simply a exploit.

Yeah, the animation is working perfectly fine. The hitboxes are perfectly lined up! There's absolutely nothing wrong with the animation at all!

Quote

Is it unfair for people to position themselves with intelligence?

I think i am not going to bother comment on that. I laughed out loud on the intelligence part.

Quote

You can complain about the mechanic all you want and request for it to go away, that's fine. Trying to brand people that use it, however, as cheaters, loses you all credibility.

Whether PGI fixed it or not, does not takes away that's a faulty mechanic and that can be used to gain a unfair advantage compared to others. You just want the free letter... Trying to make bad arguments that you have the right to use it.

Go read http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4317076

You are just trying to make something bend right again.

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Thing is, it's incredibly stupid to imply that people who do play around such things are cheaters/exploiters. It's a part of the game whether you like it or not, just because it doesn't fit in with your version of MWO doesn't mean that the other player is doing something wrong. Using your reasoning, I can easily say that you're playing the game wrong taking some snowflake build that isn't effective at all in the situations present in MWO, and thus you're not playing to win, thus wrong. Bit dumb.

And again, i lost my creditbility?

Quote

Games develop past a developer's intention. It's what generally makes them fun.

Whatever man, not going to dicuss with you any furter as you just lost on me with that flawed argument. Obviously you are eating straight banana's and are not willing to change. I don't discuss to make a change, but to make aware of what you are actually saying.

Edited by Sarlic, 26 March 2015 - 12:34 PM.