33 replies to this topic

[Zeece]

https://twitter.com/...804337766547456

Russ Bullock @russ_bullock · 32s 32 seconds ago

Btw next patch I will have it so the IS drop decks will be the same whether they are fighting Clans or IS so you dont have to change them

[Wintersdark]

This is A Good Thing. Happy for the IS players who don't have to fiddle with drop decks anymore.

[Koniving]

It's too bad that I can't bring 5 mechs.

50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50...
I could bring 5 out of 6 of my Hunchbacks or all of my Centurions.

[WarHippy]

I just wish they would have made it easier and faster to swap things around instead. If they are having issues now imagine what it will be like when they have different drop weights for individual planets, or are they going to disappoint me by going uniform across the board instead of varied drop weights like they said they would do?

Edited by WarHippy, 25 March 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[Ultimax]

Zeece your thread title reads as if both factions will be allowed the same weight.

When I read Russ' comments it leads me to believe that the IS have one tonnage limit regardless who their opponent is.

Can you please clarify which is correct?

[Stoned Prophet]

Ultimatum X, on 25 March 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

Zeece your thread title reads as if both factions will be allowed the same weight.

When I read Russ' comments it leads me to believe that the IS have one tonnage limit regardless who their opponent is.

Can you please clarify which is correct?

I thought that too, its just the weird way he worded it. No, IS will have 250 tons for their drop decks regardless of whom they fight, and clans will have 240.

[Davers]

I feel this is really unnecessary. Why should the CW queue look like the solo queue, with such a massive amount of heavy mechs? Besides, didn't PGI plan of different planets having different tonnage limits? Won't that force people to redo their decks on a per-planet basis, exactly like they are now with IS vs Clan planets?

[Koniving]

WarHippy, on 25 March 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

I just wish they would have made it easier and faster to swap things around instead. If they are having issues now imagine what it will be like when they have different drop weights for individual planets, or are they going to disappoint me by going uniform across the board instead of varied drop weights like they said they would do?

That is a very good point. I have the feeling that individual drop weights for different planets might be a position they had at the time.

They are going for the easiest solution for the current issue (which is funny, they usually go for the most convoluted solution) -- and both changing drop weights based on situation and different drop decks are just part of what's needed for individual planet drop weights.

At least we have one of three things necessary for individual planet drop weights.
Now we War Hippy's 'different drop decks', and planets or missions with specific drop weight settings.

[Stoned Prophet]

Koniving, on 25 March 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

That is a very good point. I have the feeling that individual drop weights for different planets might be a position they had at the time.

They are going for the easiest solution for the current issue (which is funny, they usually go for the most convoluted solution) -- and both changing drop weights based on situation and different drop decks are just part of what's needed for individual planet drop weights.

At least we have one of three things necessary for individual planet drop weights.
Now we War Hippy's 'different drop decks', and planets or missions with specific drop weight settings.

Will I want to like the idea of planetary drop weights, I can already hear the struggle... "Hold on I gotta switch some engines if were going to a different planet" "I only have these four mechs and that makes me over weight and Im not taking trials (and he shouldnt)". The problem is, these ideas sound really good, but when you put them in with the live population, then unforseen issues rear their heads

[Mystere]

Davers, on 25 March 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

I feel this is really unnecessary. Why should the CW queue look like the solo queue, with such a massive amount of heavy mechs?

In light of your comment, I hereby propose that drop deck total weight should not exceed 200 tons, whether Clan or IS.

The only exception to the above rule is a drop deck comprising of the 4 original Founder's Mechs.

[Koniving]

Stoned Prophet, on 25 March 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

Will I want to like the idea of planetary drop weights, I can already hear the struggle... "Hold on I gotta switch some engines if were going to a different planet" "I only have these four mechs and that makes me over weight and Im not taking trials (and he shouldnt)". The problem is, these ideas sound really good, but when you put them in with the live population, then unforseen issues rear their heads

One of the many reasons I dislike the 12 player requirement.

On my signature, "What 3/3/3/3 cost us" is actually a CW scenario cooked up with all the hype and "features" and "ideas" that PGI had ever given to us before CW came out.

You might notice that the Steiner force only sends 9 players against Liao's 12. Overall, the drop deck concept uses a Global team-wide drop deck rather than one for each player. The players would have to choose one (or more) mechs to slap into the mix (up to 4 but usually less) with a global limit of 660 tons (compared to our limit of 2880 for just the Clan mechs currently). This means that both sides will have 660 tons regardless of how many players may be actively participating in the fight.

And even then the situations had proven that there was quite possibly too much tonnage available (as it even predicts the Zerg Rush and uses it as a valid tactic; a rush of 24 Commandos and 2 Spiders).

So in that case of Steiner's 9 players versus Liao's 12, this meant that each of the 9 players had more weight to work with per player than Liao's 12 players who had to split the weight. Being Steiner, of course, that meant the trademark Steiner Scout Lance of 4 Atlases was thrown in alongside 2 Banshees, 1 Locust (because space concerns) and 2 commandos. 660 tons. Nine mechs total, but very heavy with 6 assault mechs.

Liao in that instance had exactly 1 assault mech (Atlas), 2 heavies (both Catapults), 6 mediums (2 Trebs, 2 Centurions, 2 Blackjacks), and 4 lights (2 Raven 3-Ls, 1 Raven 2X, 1 Raven 4X). You will notice 12 players and 13 mechs, the Raven 2X player got to use the extra space for his Atlas as a surprise reinforcement.

There's a few other situations there, too. A fun read.

Edited by Koniving, 25 March 2015 - 12:11 PM.

[Stoned Prophet]

Koniving, on 25 March 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

One of the many reasons I dislike the 12 player requirement.

On my signature, "What 3/3/3/3 cost us" is actually a CW scenario cooked up with all the hype and "features" and "ideas" that PGI had ever given to us before CW came out.

You might notice that the Steiner force only sends 7 players against Liao's 12. Overall, the drop deck concept uses a Global team-wide drop deck rather than one for each player. The players would have to choose one (or more) mechs to slap into the mix (up to 4 but usually less) with a global limit of 660 tons (compared to our limit of 2880 for just the Clan mechs currently). And even then the situations had proven that there was quite possibly too much tonnage available (as it even predicts the Zerg Rush and uses it as a valid tactic; a rush of 24 Commandos and 2 Spiders.

There's a few other situations there, too. A fun read.

Yeah, I feel Light pilot "slots" and Assault pilot "slots" and so forth would be the right way. Let assault pilots pilot what they want, rather than forcing them to take a light to balance out that atlas. Its "little" things like that that are messing with the awesomeness that is cw.

[Mechteric]

They should have just lowered the Clan drop weight instead of raising the IS weight.

[Davers]

Mystere, on 25 March 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

In light of your comment, I hereby propose that drop deck total weight should not exceed 200 tons, whether Clan or IS.

The only exception to the above rule is a drop deck comprising of the 4 original Founder's Mechs.

Yeah, PGI won't do that though since it means decks would be more based on lighter mechs, instead of the more expensive heavier mechs. They want to make sure everyone can easily fit an assault mech into every deck.

[Mystere]

Davers, on 25 March 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Yeah, PGI won't do that though since it means decks would be more based on lighter mechs, instead of the more expensive heavier mechs. They want to make sure everyone can easily fit an assault mech into every deck.

But at the 200-ton limit, you can still choose to bring an assault mech or two (for IS anyway). it's just going to take a little more thought doing so.

The rules can also be changed such that you can also choose to bring less than 4. This allows one side to have two "Steiner Companies", if they so choose.

One final change I would like is removing the lower weight limit. If I want to bring all lights (because that is my specialization), then so be it. This will allow one side to have nothing but light wolf packs, if they so choose.

Many of the "balance" problems people often complain about can be traced to the high drop weight limit and rigid 4-mech requirement. Lowering the former and dropping/easing the latter make for some interesting possibilities.

[WarHippy]

Mystere, on 25 March 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

But at the 200-ton limit, you can still choose to bring an assault mech or two (for IS anyway). it's just going to take a little more thought doing so.

The rules can also be changed such that you can also choose to bring less than 4. This allows one side to have two "Steiner Companies", if they so choose.

One final change I would like is removing the lower weight limit. If I want to bring all lights (because that is my specialization), then so be it. This will allow one side to have nothing but light wolf packs, if they so choose.

Many of the "balance" problems people often complain about can be traced to the high drop weight limit and rigid 4-mech requirement. Lowering the former and dropping/easing the latter make for some interesting possibilities.

Weight limits just don't appeal to me at all in general, and frankly if I can't bring my heavy/assault mechs then light pilots need to suffer in a similar way. So long as a max limit remains so should the lower limit. As for a 200 limit across the board? Hell no that would be terrible. 240 was borderline too little in my opinion as is, but I was ok with it being the most common so long as there was going to be planets with both higher and lower drop weights like they described. Removing the requirement of four mechs might lead to some interesting possibilities, but even less weight would not.

[Mystere]

WarHippy, on 25 March 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Weight limits just don't appeal to me at all in general, and frankly if I can't bring my heavy/assault mechs then light pilots need to suffer in a similar way. So long as a max limit remains so should the lower limit. As for a 200 limit across the board? Hell no that would be terrible. 240 was borderline too little in my opinion as is, but I was ok with it being the most common so long as there was going to be planets with both higher and lower drop weights like they described. Removing the requirement of four mechs might lead to some interesting possibilities, but even less weight would not.

My issue with increasing drop weights is that it just results in more heavy and assault mechs and less mediums and lights given the "bigger is better" mentality pervading the player base. The public queue right at this very moment is highly indicative of that: 73% heavies/assaults and 27% mediums/lights. The CW drops I have been in also reflect a similar bias.

Edited by Mystere, 25 March 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[WarHippy]

Mystere, on 25 March 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

My issue with increasing drop weights is that it just results in more heavy and assault mechs and less mediums and lights given the "bigger is better" mentality pervading the player base. The public queue right at this very moment is highly indicative of that: 73% heavies/assaults and 27% mediums/lights. The CW drops I have been in also reflect a similar bias.

So the solution to that is to make the lights/mediums worth taking instead of arbitrarily punishing players who would rather play something else. Interestingly enough when I just looked at the ratio it was 30% heavy 20% assault which is as even as you could possibly get. As for CW with all the light rushes I'm not seeing anywhere near the same amount of heavy/assault I see in public.

[Deathlike]

Koniving, on 25 March 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

That is a very good point. I have the feeling that individual drop weights for different planets might be a position they had at the time.

I'm pretty sure I've heard of this before. Hmmm...

Quote

They are going for the easiest solution for the current issue (which is funny, they usually go for the most convoluted solution) -- and both changing drop weights based on situation and different drop decks are just part of what's needed for individual planet drop weights.

What they really need is multiple dropdeck configurations. Why is this a Lostech concept?

Quote

At least we have one of three things necessary for individual planet drop weights.
Now we War Hippy's 'different drop decks', and planets or missions with specific drop weight settings.

At this point, we'll just get multiple dropdeck options late 2015 or when the "Beta Tag" is removed.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 March 2015 - 06:24 PM.

[Johnny Z]

This uneven and lopsided drop decks on the star map may help with balance between the "easy mode clan mechs" and the "hard mode inner sphere mechs" but it doesnt help with balance in the regular queue.

Will rewards be adjusted for the regular queue? Will the rewards be retroactive so that players in now officially sub par mechs, get rewards they missed?

Also, it is my understanding that hero mechs and inner sphere mech packs prices are based on the equipment etc. Will the prices be adjusted to reflect sub par mechs performance? Will anyone who got heros or mech packs get a refund of any sort?

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 March 2015 - 07:56 PM.