24 replies to this topic

[Shiro Kell]

This topic is being repeated from feature suggestions as I believe it relates to both forums:

Too many matches are spawn camps and/or objective rushes. How long will it take PGI to figure out that their formulae for CW is broken!?! Why does every match need to be a base defense/attack???

The way a planetary assault should work should be as follows:

1. Initial attacker drop - counter attack with mobile field base - attacker wins = progress to next phase. Defender wins = attacker pushed off world

2. If attacker wins all further combat should be skirmish. This would prevent objective rushes. In order to prevent spawn camping in this game mode, multiple random spawn points and/or much harder hits from dropships should be implemented. If the attacker wins enough drops to get to 99% control, move to step 3. If defender wins enough to get to 1% attacker control, move back to step 1.

3. At 99% attacker control, use a current attack/defense scenario. If attacker wins, planet is won. If defender wins move back to step 2 and follow guidelines. \

At all stages multiple random drop points and/or harder hitting drop ships should be used to avoid spawn camping from both sides.

THIS ISNT DIFFICULT! GET IT RIGHT!

[Mystere]

People are going for objectives? Who would have thought?

[Johnny Z]

Um its called beta for a reason. Ya i think its taking to long also but maybe they doing Solaris also at same time and other stuff.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Shiro Kell, on 21 March 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

This topic is being repeated from feature suggestions as I believe it relates to both forums:

Too many matches are spawn camps and/or objective rushes. How long will it take PGI to figure out that their formulae for CW is broken!?! Why does every match need to be a base defense/attack???

The way a planetary assault should work should be as follows:

1. Initial attacker drop - counter attack with mobile field base - attacker wins = progress to next phase. Defender wins = attacker pushed off world

2. If attacker wins all further combat should be skirmish. This would prevent objective rushes. In order to prevent spawn camping in this game mode, multiple random spawn points and/or much harder hits from dropships should be implemented. If the attacker wins enough drops to get to 99% control, move to step 3. If defender wins enough to get to 1% attacker control, move back to step 1.

3. At 99% attacker control, use a current attack/defense scenario. If attacker wins, planet is won. If defender wins move back to step 2 and follow guidelines. \

At all stages multiple random drop points and/or harder hitting drop ships should be used to avoid spawn camping from both sides.

THIS ISNT DIFFICULT! GET IT RIGHT!

So when is your game coming out?

[Vxheous]

So you want stompy robot deathmatch, with no objectives, to count for something....go play pub queue

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 22 March 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

So you want stompy robot deathmatch, with no objectives, to count for something....go play pub queue

Pretty much that. If you just want deathmatch with no Elo to be CW then, well....

No. That would be horrible. Insanely badly horrible. All the time. No pugging, can only play with your 12man and you wouldn't have anyone but comp players in it. Just run a comp ladder and let CW be a little bigger and a little better.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 22 March 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Pretty much that. If you just want deathmatch with no Elo to be CW then, well....

No. That would be horrible. Insanely badly horrible. All the time. No pugging, can only play with your 12man and you wouldn't have anyone but comp players in it. Just run a comp ladder and let CW be a little bigger and a little better.

So instead you are happy with Light rushes (with broken light mechs) spawn camps and ghost drops...gg close.

[xRedEyex]

I think the point you are missing is that you say its "easy" to do CW the way you want to see it done. Now tell us how you would develop that? I'll bet you don't have any clue where to start and will retort with some snarky reply. Therein lies the point. CW is BETA, if you have listened to any of the Development blogs or CW discussions with Russ you would realize they are looking into strengthening DS's to avoid spawn camping, adding additional required objectives so light rushes are not possible, and also creating new and randomizing the game modes so they are not always attack/defend/counter attack. Also they are looking at implementing many other features to CW that I'm sure you aren't aware of as it is obvious you haven't kept up with any of the updates such as 4v4 CW in which smaller groups will take on other types of game modes to help out larger CW groups which will add an entirely new dynamic to the game.

Look, I dont like CW at all right now, especially as a Davion loyalist. PGI rewards CW players who faction hop constantly and offer no reward or incentive to be a loyal house unit (my main problems with CW so far) But spewing how you think CW should be and yelling to the DEVs that is easy doesn't do anything to make a point for you, in fact just the opposite you sound like a kid yelling about how easy it is to just go buy all your favorite toys, with no thought as to how it would be funded or where the funds even come from to begin with. I suggest you check out the Dev blogs (http://mwomercs.com/...-command-chair/ & http://mwomercs.com/...eveloper-vlogs/) and the NGNG podcasts regarding the future of CW and development of MWO as a whole https://soundcloud.com/nogutsnogalaxy

Edited by xRedEyex, 22 March 2015 - 07:56 PM.

[Mystere]

N0MAD, on 22 March 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

So instead you are happy with Light rushes (with broken light mechs) spawn camps and ghost drops...gg close.

Light Rushes ---> Opportunity to practice gunnery skills
Spawn Camps ---> Enemy failed miserably
Ghost Drops ---> Haven't been in one for a looooonnnnnnggggg time.

[Livewyr]

Best way to avoid spawn camp: Don't get put into that position.
Second best way to avoid spawn camp: don't immediately click on your next mech. Coordinate with your fellow team to try and get as many people into a single wave of dropships to try and destroy more dropship campers. (They have to make their way back.) You probably should not concern yourself with winning at that point though... if they are camping your spawn, you've likely already lost and they are just not telling you about it yet.

[YCSLiesmith]

Nick Makiaveli, on 22 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

So when is your game coming out?

yo while i think that the op is ridiculous this right here is the worst kind of response to criticism. any time someone says 'well where's your game/movie/book/painting/homemade airplane' when he's looking to shut someone down is making a big mistake. criticism does not require creation to be valid, and in fact creators are rarely skilled critics.

Vxheous Kerensky, on 22 March 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

So you want stompy robot deathmatch, with no objectives, to count for something....go play pub queue

i want it to count for something. 1v1v1v1*28 solaris arena mode. this is my dream

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 22 March 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

So instead you are happy with Light rushes (with broken light mechs) spawn camps and ghost drops...gg close.

Didn't say any of that.

You need objective based combat or it just becomes skirmish with respawn and pugs will have 0 chance instead of the 10%they have today. It will eliminate most builds, etc.

You need game modes with objective wins in cw to help balance the lack of Elo.

[sycocys]

MischiefSC, on 23 March 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

Didn't say any of that.

You need objective based combat or it just becomes skirmish with respawn and pugs will have 0 chance instead of the 10%they have today. It will eliminate most builds, etc.

You need game modes with objective wins in cw to help balance the lack of Elo.

This is pretty much exactly what I've been saying since my return to the game and started playing what is an extremely lackluster delivery of CW for the ridiculous amount of time it was pushed back. It goes beyond the lack of Elo though, spreading out the field would simply better balance the game entirely and give it actual replayable depth that a lot more people would get into - filling out the ranks in the process, making CW much more enjoyable across the board.

Blob assault or blob rush is a pretty thin amount of gameplay to continually center your entire game around, it's hilarious (and sad) that they are this far along and never moved past that on their end.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Spawncamping?

1. take command
2. drag every dead pilot out of the lance which is getting camped
3. ???
4. Profit

Mystere, on 22 March 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

Light Rushes ---> Opportunity to practice gunnery skills

no offence, but how does shooting an enemy, who doesn't register damage, improves gunnery skills?

Edited by LOADED, 23 March 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[rolly]

As a player coming back to this, CW is in beta and I do hope it can be so much more. Right now it certainly does feel like a drawn out battle with the barest of tactics and strategy. Especially pub side as opposed to organized clans. There needs to be a way to bring both the PUG and Clan experience closer together to somewhere in the middle.

Right now there isn't enough mechanics and the map to boxed in and channeled to offer much strategic game play.

I do feel the light rushes are essentially an exploit of the current mechanics. Unless you're Clan Ice Hellion or Jade Falcon a bases static defences alone should cripple or severely damage most if not half of a team by the time they get anywhere near the objective.

If one takes command in a PUG context that really doesn't work nor is there any reward for doing so or doing well, and you'll generally catch grief from any and everyone.

It just feels more drawn out, fragmented and to the random Pugger not that inviting an experience.

I do feel we need more strategic objectives. Ie. Mech Commander. Or Planetside 2 - The Gate can't be opened unless the Gate House is taken, or you can't call in airstrikes until the Air Defence controller is seized. Auxilliary Power Units can be targeted to shut down defences first. These give or take away bonuses to either side.
PGI needs to pull from canon to look for source material.

By making a single point objective all the time it give very little flexibility or room to use variation in tactics.

Btw is it me, or the orbital guns would annihilate those dropships as they come in shouldn't they?

[Waffles 2pt0]

Shiro Kell, on 21 March 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

At all stages multiple random drop points and/or harder hitting drop ships should be used to avoid spawn camping from both sides.

Wow, oh wow! This is brilliant. Simple and elegant.

[Jman5]

MischiefSC, on 23 March 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

Didn't say any of that.

You need objective based combat or it just becomes skirmish with respawn and pugs will have 0 chance instead of the 10%they have today. It will eliminate most builds, etc.

You need game modes with objective wins in cw to help balance the lack of Elo.

I actually think that objective-based combat favors premades more than pugs. You're increasing the difficulty, by requiring more complex coordination, scouting, and movement which favors the premade. The more simple the game mode, the less premade vs pug matters.

That said, I agree with you that skill gap is a major concern. It seems to me that the typical premade is usually a mile ahead of your typical pug team in terms of raw talent. I don't know if anything can, or even should be done.

Edited by Jman5, 23 March 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[elismallz]

YCSLiesmith, on 23 March 2015 - 03:14 AM, said:

yo while i think that the op is ridiculous this right here is the worst kind of response to criticism. any time someone says 'well where's your game/movie/book/painting/homemade airplane' when he's looking to shut someone down is making a big mistake. criticism does not require creation to be valid, and in fact creators are rarely skilled critics.


i want it to count for something. 1v1v1v1*28 solaris arena mode. this is my dream

I don't quite agree. The OP made a typical attempt to trivialize game development. "THIS ISNT DIFFICULT! GET IT RIGHT!"

While every game has it's share of armchair devs and designers, this particular brand is frustrating and deserves every bit of snark they get. My favorite line I've read in these forums was"It's just an XML change, so easy!".

[rolly]

Jman5, on 23 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I actually think that objective-based combat favors premades more than pugs. You're increasing the difficulty, by requiring more complex coordination, scouting, and movement which favors the premade. The more simple the game mode, the less premade vs pug matters.

That said, I agree with you that skill gap is a major concern. It seems to me that the typical premade is usually a mile ahead of your typical pug team in terms of raw talent. I don't know if anything can, or even should be done.

That being said, isn't this game suppose to be a "Thinking man's game"? Its not exactly twitch FPS, but Battletech has always been about tactical and soon hopefully strategic pew pew. Either this game caters to the lowest level or a higher level. I'd prefer to aim higher, have higher expectations of my team, and randomly/eventually work towards that goal.

Look at Team Fortress 2 - it has some pretty straight forward and slightly higher complex misison goals yet it works. Those that get the team goal, get it and the game coordination works.

Yes it does favour premades, but it doesn't necessarily be that way, I've seen PUGs I've participated in randomly gel and get their act together to win. The thing is with CW it should push a HIGHER level of expectation and team play AND give the tools and mechanics to do so.

Without the mechanics, map, objectives, teamwork bonuses and strategic options, its not actually Community Warfare because in the current state its not fostering Community. Just Premade vs. PUGS. That is not necessarily healthy for the long term success of this game.

Edited by rolly, 24 March 2015 - 06:49 AM.

[Mystere]

Jman5, on 23 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I actually think that objective-based combat favors premades more than pugs. You're increasing the difficulty, by requiring more complex coordination, scouting, and movement which favors the premade. The more simple the game mode, the less premade vs pug matters.

And which is why I have suggested a "Special Forces vs. Guerrilla" search and destroy game mode (possibly after a planet has already been "conquered") in which only small groups (i.e. 4 or less) and solos can sign up as the latter with the former being filled by anybody. It can be set up as an asymmetric battle, with possibly the victory conditions stacked somewhat in favor of the "freedom fighters".