716 replies to this topic

[Krigherren]

Felhad, on 06 April 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Could you post some Autocannon size comparison shots?

This, I want to see how Urbie looks with all sorts of weapons, and perhaps better mech size comparisons!

[xeromynd]

Can't wait to fire up my StreakCrow tomorrow and get a LOT of kills.

[Koniving]

Marc von der Heide, on 06 April 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Nice.- Can we remove that old school antennas? I thought BT is in the future..not in the past....The Urbie is tiny...but for shure you can see his antennas....

<.<

Battlemechs are centuries old.

Lots of technology has been lost for hundreds of years. Constant wars across the galaxy. Dwindling money supplies. Some entire planets destroyed or isolated entirely. There is little ability to improve technology, and when it is improved entire campaigns are sent forth to wipe them out.

Though knowledge of some technologies were restored in 3027 with the discovery of the Helm Memory Core, many weren't actually brought back until after 3035, and even then it was extremely limited who had it.

The boom to develop new technologies again didn't start until after 3050, in the face of the vastly superior Clan invaders who -- never -- lost the technology... but also only slightly improved upon it (mostly with better materials or somewhat better accurate ranges [due mostly not to the weapons themselves but better computer systems] as well as efficiency).

Even missiles can't do what they do in MWO.

Spoiler

It all boils down to "Simpler, cheaper, less complex, better endurance."
Many cars from the 1950s still run just fine with routine maintenance and not all that much in part replacements in Cuba where gas is not mixed with ethanol.
But take a car from 2001, and how many times has something broken down, needed to be fixed, replaced, etc?

As a merc you'd make 150,000 cbills on a mission for an entire unit, not just one guy. Now try spreading that into repairs, when an XL 300 engine for a 100 ton mech costs 12 million?

There's a reason things are the way they are.

Considering that mechs are completely obliterated at a rate of less than 30 every 4 months (as almost always they can be salvaged even in the event of ammo explosions)... you can pretty much imagine that every 4 months, across all of the IS, another 30 or fewer mechs have rolled off of the factory lines.

They aren't cheap, the materials aren't that common, and factories are getting wiped out entirely.

But that said:
I really miss the reflection of it in the Founders mechs, who don't look centuries old anymore.

Edited by Koniving, 06 April 2015 - 12:28 PM.

[Krigherren]

Koniving, on 06 April 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

<.<

Battlemechs are centuries old.

Lots of technology has been lost for hundreds of years. Constant wars across the galaxy. Dwindling money supplies. Some entire planets destroyed or isolated entirely. There is little ability to improve technology, and when it is improved entire campaigns are sent forth to wipe them out.

Though knowledge of some technologies were restored in 3027 with the discovery of the Helm Memory Core, many weren't actually brought back until after 3035, and even then it was extremely limited who had it.

The boom to develop new technologies again didn't start until after 3050, in the face of the vastly superior Clan invaders who -- never -- lost the technology... but also only slightly improved upon it (mostly with better materials or somewhat better accurate ranges [due mostly not to the weapons themselves but better computer systems] as well as efficiency).

I feel like you're the go to guy when it comes to lore. You supply before demands are given!

[braveheart95]

The only question I have is, who is going to be the urban mech's first victim tomorrow?

[Matt Newman]

Felhad, on 06 April 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Could you post some Autocannon size comparison shots?

Ok I will do various ballistics on the Urbanmech for comparison. BRB

[Myray]

i request an urbanmech riding on a king crab

[Twilight Fenrir]

Ian Drsaurri, on 06 April 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

I haven't played in such a long time but i will play tomorrow so I can just go in and destroy the AC 10/20 and then just watch them try to run away at 32 KPH

Why do you put the antenas on Urbie but removed the bad ass satellite dish off the atlas

Hmm? I dunno what you're talking about... MY atlas has its dish

[Ridir Semii]

WonderSparks, on 06 April 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

You even beat Matt to the punch, nice one.

thanks!!

[Matt Newman]

Here you go.

[WonderSparks]

Matt Newman, on 06 April 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

I'll take another screenshot and post it if anyone has a request.

I would not mind a screenshot of an Urbie standing next to a Stalker, perhaps with the two staring into each others' cockpits.

_{Or will I have to draw that one myself? >w>}

[Krigherren]

Matt Newman, on 06 April 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Here you go.

Oh my. Gauss Urbie. Oh my, oh my.

WonderSparks, on 06 April 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Or will I have to draw that one myself? >w>

Do it anyway for I want to see.. >_>

[WonderSparks]

Krigherren, on 06 April 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Do it anyway for I want to see.. >_>

Give me some time to sketch and digitize it, I will certainly give it a go. c:

[Ridir Semii]

that lb looks mean and nasty.... snub nose shotgun Urbie, coming up!! tomorrow........

[Koniving]

Edit: I see the shots of Urbie weapons have been shown. Yay.

Edit: Added lots more fluff and pics.

Krigherren, on 06 April 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

I feel like you're the go to guy when it comes to lore. You supply before demands are given!

I recently acquired most of the source books and fluff stuffs and I'm still reading through them.

Random rant on why older sources get uncanonized (which kinda sucks cause older ones are generally more realistic than newer ones).

Spoiler

Though I can see why old canon sources get "uncanonized", new stuff added tends to conflict (for example, PPC minimum accurate range was originally because "PPCs are heavy, their weight limits their target tracking abilities against fast, small machines." (Which all mechs are considered 'reasonably small' as at the time it was written the tallest one was slightly over 13 meters [MWO's Hunchback, the shortest 50 ton medium is 13.6 meters, and that height range of barely over 13 meters included Atlases with giant heads]). All ACs also had minimum accurate ranges, too. Though a large part of this was because short of the Awesome, every PPC carrying mech of medium or larger size actually had them as hand-mounted, detachable rifles. That was 1987.

Left, 55 ton tank in Crysis.
Center. 55 ton Shadowhawk as scaled in Battletech, 1987, which roughly matches to the Dougram at 9.63 meters tall.
Right. 55 ton Shadowhawk as scaled by MWO. Over 15 meters tall. [Atlas is 17.6 meters tall in MWO, but 'barely over 13 meters' in BT].

Interesting, isn't it? Now with that size difference, the whole "climbing on a battlemech to pop the hatch, shoot the pilot and yank out the corpse" thing isn't that far fetched, now is it? With sizes like that, helicopters, tanks, etc. are very realistically threats against 'Mechs just like they are stated to be. Anyway back on the PPC canonization rant.

1989, Clans were introduced. With ER PPCs in the picture and new people doing the rules, the reasoning had yet to be rewritten but would soon need it. ER PPCs for the IS originally still had the "too heavy to swing around" issue of 90 meter minimum range. Clans didn't with their 6 ton ER PPCs being snapped into the arms that couldn't 'swing' at all. Less issues to accuracy supposedly. This is still before the unseen.

This wasn't very fair.. At all. So it got changed (assuming in the early 90s). As it happens, the unseen issues also came. Many hand-mounted weapons ceased due to Harmony Gold issues. So came the rewrites: IS ER PPCs lost the "too heavy" thing and got no minimum range. Regular PPCs got field inhibitors. Then, "PPCs are explosively volatile and require field inhibitors to degrade the performance to keep them safe." Leading to "It needs to charge up to fire." With an option to turn that off, with the risk of thing blowing up in your face and the pilot losing consciousness from impact or heat exhaustion. (That's just firing 1 PPC, or 1 at a time for a series). Furthermore, most of the 'hand held' weapons kinda stopped.


Griffin with laser, and Hatchetman. Btw, can you see the Patlabor influence in this late 80's shot?

Right down to the helmet. Even the hangar is also practically identical (the catwalk was removed, since BT mechs are slightly taller and are not 'carried' into battle on the backs of 'super-transport' trucks). Many combined arms campaigns in the late 80s / early 90s are heavily Patlabor influenced, too. Vehicle-bound spotters, command cars with relay equipment, etc. came from Patlabor. Seismic Sensors came from 08th Mobile Suit Team, a gundam universe series. Jumpjets, also from similar sources.

Back on the de-canonization rant.
o.O; Of course, this leaves the "Why are ACs still burdened with minimum accuracy ranges in TT?" Haven't found the Catalyst Games answer yet. But evidently Wiz Kids changed it to "minimum ranges for ACs mounted on torsos only." Because sluggish torso twisting, I guess. At this point I'm just shrugging my shoulders. Though I will say since IS mechs generally have pivoting heads and arms with both upper and lower arm actuators it seems perfectly reasonable to believe that IS mechs could make up for their lack of manueverability through the use of arm-mounted weapons, especially with ~many~ references to straightening out their arms to fire overtop of short buildings and 7 meter walls, as well as pre-3000 use of cover based tactics and 'blind fire' by sticking their arms out beyond walls to fire toward the enemy (popular with the 'giant explosive machine guns' that are Autocannons).

So far I've counted 5 different companies owning the Battletech series. They are not all that good at being consistent or backtracking through the lore, so.. in essence they reinvent it for their purposes. Akin to what I believe PGI has done. Thus for the most part I stick with FASA's lore. They made it first, regardless of who says what is canon now, we know FASA's crew came up with the originals and went to great lengths to keep it as realistic as possible. (There's even custom rules for infantry sniper fire for taking out enemy pilots in mechs, and details on a number of weapon variants which include different laser variants of the same category that range from "0.1" second beam times to "2 second" beam times... with advantages either way).

Then again... You'd barely be wearing anything inside your mech if PGI went strictly by the lore. A cooling vest with boots/gloves and some shorts, maybe a wife beater shirt. Pistol strapped to your side rather than holstered on you (otherwise the leather might melt into your skin).

Then again SRMs and LRMs would be controlled by hand after launching using a thumb stick on your left hand joystick while your speed was by a right hand throttle (later changed to right hand joystick and left hand throttle though feasible to go either way) and not locked on at all if you go by the original source material (Unless Artemis or Homing LRMs). Artemis was a laser pointer and automatic guidance system, where the launcher communicated with and directed the missiles (ECM between launcher and missile = removal of guidance). Homing LRMs follow TAG signals, guided not by the Missile Carrier but instead by the TAG-equipped Spotter. They are also 3 times as expensive but use standard launchers. ECM between TAG signal and target is about the only way to interrupt their guidance (and only in certain optional rulesets), as the Homing LRMs are self-contained, only seeking out "Where" the TAG beam is pointing. (Talk about some skill based, spam-unfriendly missiles!)

I'd love to, some day, see something Battlefield-esque with Battletech. They have quadrapedal BA! Battle Armor, where the infantry is on all fours! Seriously!! (Gimme a bit to upload and edit shots of them, I'm about to drop into some matches).

Quad BA!

(The PDF I originally found it in doesn't have the boarders, so this isn't the same one that had the Exo skeletons I wanted to show).

Before I move on, here's a random Clan Battle Armor -- so that people know there are a LOT, and I mean a LOT more than just "elementals."


The 12 shots is 12 shots to get the same damage as a Clan Pulse Laser, which also require numerous shots to get their rated damage. (It's the count of 'pulses' or "wubs").


Oh, and in the 1980s they drew Exoskeleton concepts that the US Army are developing. Also to be included here.
(I'm still having trouble of finding the many light, medium and heavy variants for military use; I found the WizKidz ones but not the FASA ones. I thought they'd be under Combat Equipment or the TRO vehicle editions alongside the BattleArmor like how I discovered them, but while I found the BA they weren't in the same order and no Exo suits. So the hunt continues). In the meantime.

More suits placed here.

Spoiler

An Exo Suit (WizKidz; bleh).

Another. Also WizKidz. It's actually not bad, but that's more exoskeleton enhanced body armor than just an Exoskeleton.



Here's why I'm not a WizKidz fan.

I especially wanted to share this: Proof from a FASA Source Book in 1988, that Automated Robots did in fact exist. Publishing details. Take that, you-know-who!


My new favorite official Wolverine art. Too bad it's covered with the Unseen tidbit, since 1980s.

Edited by Koniving, 06 April 2015 - 06:17 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

Matt Newman, on 06 April 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ok I will do various ballistics on the Urbanmech for comparison. BRB

Could you add a no-ballistic with PPC?

Gauss and UAC look good.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 06 April 2015 - 12:56 PM.

[Krigherren]

Koniving, on 06 April 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

...

My point well proven.

I'd also love to see a Battlefield-esque BT game.. I believe Living Legends did a fairly decent job at it, but it needs more!

Edited by Krigherren, 06 April 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[Utilyan]

InnerSphereNews, on 27 March 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

In less than 24 hours we will be deploying the patch that contains the UrbanMech.

^ what you said,


What I heard....... "MAYBE we release Urbanmech in 5 minutes."



So expect me to ask every 5 minutes...........is patch up!?!?!?!


is patch up!?!?!?!
is patch up!?!?!?!
is patch up!?!?!?!
is patch up!?!?!?!

[o0cipher0o]

Oh my... that little thinghy is so cute. Cant wait to get mine and kit them out

[Ovion]

Sadly, no, this shows when the Urbanmech Arrives

But this is (thanks to work) when I get it.