64 replies to this topic

[Flak Kannon]

Hi Questia.

First off, this game is a CHALLENGE for even the best pilot on the planet. Seriously.

Second, the Timberwolf is a TOP SHELF mech, but even 3 lights can probably take you down if your found alone. Never be alone, ever... at least not until you have many many hundreds if not many, many thousands of drops.

Thirdly, if your getting focused down often, that means that the other team probably doesn't have many other targets to shoot at.. ergo, you are poking your head out at the wrong time. Try to slow play the game a bit more.

Fourthly, there is nothing wrong with loading one LRM20 and alot of Lasers in your Timbers and just firing those LRMs alot early. Keep that head down. Learn how to Jump Jet and spread damage better.

Lastly, currently, there are ALOT of players in this community that have played a TON of matches. They are just more intuitive pilots right now, and your the sacraficial lamb. We all went through it. Keep playing, and learning, and slow the heck down.

[ProfessorD]

Do you ever overheat and shut down? At all? You should basically never do that, so if you do, go run a circuit through the Testing Grounds and test out each of your weapon groups. See what percent heat each one generates, and never fire that group if you have less than that much heat available.

Laser group causes 40% heat? Never fire it when you're above 60% heat, then.

Also, Timberwolves are faster than all assaults but Gargoyles, most heavies, and even some mediums. You might be getting to the front lines a lot faster than your teammates at the beginning of matches. There is usually no advantage in that, so try waiting a bit at the start of matches and possibly make a conscious decision to follow a teammate in the early moves of the match. This will help you almost automatically avoid peeking too much, as several others have already advised. Also remember that your mech has throttle settings other than 100% and use them if you want to keep pace with a slower teammate. Something like 99% of pilots spend all of their time at either 100% or 0% throttle, which is a big mistake.

Edited by ProfessorD, 27 March 2015 - 12:20 PM.

[Dulahan]

400-500 damage matches consistently?

Seriously, only the top tier players are doing that, I don 't care what mech they're in. I've seen entire matches where no one had that much damage on either side. If you're topping 200 damage as a new player, you're doing great. Hell, I still consider 250 damage to be a good match two years and some change in. Oh, I can massively surpass that at times. But yeeeeah...

I think there's a bit of expectation inflation going on! So don't let that score make you think you're terrible.

[Rogue Jedi]

Flak Kannon, on 27 March 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Hi Questia.

First off, this game is a CHALLENGE for even the best pilot on the planet. Seriously.

Second, the Timberwolf is a TOP SHELF mech, but even 3 lights can probably take you down if your found alone. Never be alone, ever... at least not until you have many many hundreds if not many, many thousands of drops.

1 light can easily take down a Timber Wolf solo if the Light has the better pilot, I have done it many times in a Spider, Jenner, Kit Fox or Firestarter. 1 Timber Wolf vs 3 Lights (or 3 of any other weight class) and assuming the Light pilots are somewhat competent that TBR is dead, likely without causing significant damage to any of the Lights

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 27 March 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[Lord Psycho]

Hello Questia!
Give my greetings to Celestia when you can.

I think you have to not lead in pokes and other things... Best way to go about things...pick out a couple guys in PUG and...FOLLOW them. support fire means alot less of you being first to get shot at.

Also try a Medium mech. Easier learning curves, higher top speeds availiable, and generally ignored.....Especially when you decide to join up with the ASSAULT lance...

carry big weapons and try not to fill every hardpoint. Find your own play style. Hell i use a YLW with an LB-10X, MG and 2 MPL.....

[stealthraccoon]

You put me in anything that doesn't fit my playstyle, and I'm a dead varmint. Put me behind the wheel of the most meta, competitive laser boating, SRM60 Heavy/Assault brawler and I'll be free points.

Don't let someone else tell you how or what to play, or what they think is better than the next. Find your own groove and comfort zone; I'm still surprised how each mech and weapons systems has their own idiosyncrasies and feel. Personally the Commando and Hunchback are my standards, and the Locust and Vindicator are my most successful.



We'll see how my Urbanmechs will fare in CW , lol!

[_____]

Dulahan, on 27 March 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

400-500 damage matches consistently?

It doesn't take top-tier players to do 400-500 average in a Timby, just a reasonably competent one.

OK just to help the OP a bit here, understand that this game has a high learning curve. The mech matters less than the player. A good mech simply enhances a good player's results but it's not a win button if you don't have experience in the chassis or the game in general.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 27 March 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[WANTED]

What these guys said..find your mech and play style. Seems everyone has 1 mech they really excel in for some reason. For me it's the Yen Lo Wang. It's like the movement and feel is just right for me comfort wise. So don't worry about the damage. I have got plenty of worse games damage wise that is below you. Been playing an Atlas recently and oh my...I am doing horrible. So the Timberwolf maybe you need more practice with, team tactics, or perhaps it's not your mech? Either way don't measure all your success in kills and damage. Heck, I find I do most of the things that are not measure in game very well, harrass, take enemies attention away from my team at times. In the end, I may die horribly and not do well but usually those games end up in a win for the team.

[InspectorG]

Dulahan, on 27 March 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

400-500 damage matches consistently?

Seriously, only the top tier players are doing that, I don 't care what mech they're in. I've seen entire matches where no one had that much damage on either side. If you're topping 200 damage as a new player, you're doing great. Hell, I still consider 250 damage to be a good match two years and some change in. Oh, I can massively surpass that at times. But yeeeeah...

I think there's a bit of expectation inflation going on! So don't let that score make you think you're terrible.

Dude, its not that hard to get 400-500 damage.

Average 30 damage alpha x10 = 300 damage.

Part of the problem is a mix of:

Bad loadouts

PS. im not a good pilot, i would say average at best.

Bad aim( high mouse sensitivity)

Poor positioning, not using initiative.

Edited by InspectorG, 27 March 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[CainenEX]

Spoiler

Quickdraw Crobat, on 27 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Voivode has the biggest point here.

For all that competitive teams and competitive players will tout the godliness or complete uselessness of a variant or chassis, the chassis simply doesn't matter if your personal skill isn't where you think it is. For all that experienced players will tout their skill at movement and aim and leading shots, these simply don't matter if you don't have the tactical awareness and team support you need to make that movement in the right direction and take those shots at the right targets at the right times.

For that matter, the power of the chassis can be made or broken by what, exactly, you've got loaded in the chassis and how it relates to your personal reactions to various situations. An extended-fire weapon like a laser or even a burst-AC or C-LRM rack- or a small-bore rapidfire autocannon in general- does you no good if your personal habits lend themselves more to peeking and other very brief fire exchanges, for instance.

Frankly, being in a Timber Wolf specifically is the LAST element of what will affect your performance. What makes them 'superior' to other Clan 'mechs (and I put that in quotes because of how distant that concern is compared to other, more important factors) is their specific combination of overall efficiency of build, particular tonnage (75-ton 'mechs are the second most efficient weapon-mass to total-mass in the game, after 70-ton 'mechs), favorable hitboxes (with sometimes apparent 'vanishing point' invincibility angles on the CT seams), overall profile (while wide, they are low and have lots of 'holes' for shots to pass through harmlessly), and hardpoint flexibility, all of which need to be leveraged by your personal skills and choices in order to matter in the first place.

People who know what they're doing in 1V Locusts and whichever Spider that was that has virtually no weapons capacity whatsoever will absolutely wreck face compared to someone in a Timber Wolf who hasn't got through Elite skills, hasn't learned the maps and how to leverage their positioning, isn't working with their team at the time of encounter, and hasn't built the 'mech to suit their personal actions in game.

I know there are people who are going to knee-jerk that I'm talking about 'special snowflake builds' and I'm not just talking about that. I'm talking about particular selections- Large Pulse versus ER large, specific amounts of heat sinks compared to more/heavier laser weapons, which ones go in which mounts (hardpoint location matters), and whether to lean more on range or damage are all concerns that differ from pilot to pilot between 'laservomit' builds and have a huge effect on the result when done differently by the same pilot.

Consider all these things and constantly be ready to tweak or change around elements of your 'mechs. Don't assume that one person's laservomit build will work better for you than another person's any more than you would assume that one person's missile heavy build would work better for you than one of the two laservomit builds. (Also don't assume the missile-heavy build will be inherently worse. Try everything!)

Oh, and leverage the hell out of team power whenever you can. Watching your minimap to see what the people who you can't talk with or won't listen are doing, because working with them instead of winding up off on your own will save not only your 'mech, but the match.

That was well written and I had to agree with many of the points stated. I myself only recently started playing. I have my share of bad games so I know the feeling. Buts its like what Quickdraw Crobat was saying: Your own player habits and skills, as well as teamwork and self awareness, lead to a more favorable match.

Read up on the mech quirks as well since they definately help, atleast with IS mechs
That being said feel free to contact any of us here with questions. W'll be more than happy toi help

[Insects]

Not everyone can get 5 kills per match, its 12 vs 12, for every player who gets more than one kill that means someone else on the team gets zero.
Elo means that as your skill increases so does your teammates and opositions, so you are constantly just keeping up not pulling ahead.

[Molossian Dog]

Questia, on 27 March 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

...So... in what is essentially a continuation of my first topic, is there any tips that you experts can give to get those consistent 3-5 kills and 500+ damage that you vets tend to brag about? ...

When people, however skilled and experienced, act like they always get 500+ dmg and 3+ kills --- then they lie.
Or their selective memory fools them.

Even the most gifted ones (not me) fail.

Sometimes you are sleepy.
Sometimes ELO tortures you.
Sometimes everytime you fire your mech hits a pebble/teammate or lag spike.
Sometimes a bad game makes you cramp up and it becomes a streak.
Sometimes your judgement fails you. Sometimes your team fails you.
Sometimes you just don´t pay 100% attention. Or a dog barks outside at the critical moment.
Sometimes you are just having plain old bad luck.
And sometimes you just derp. Herpa Derp like noone ever herpa derped before.

The only ones that might cling to that claim they -consistently- do not fail are those that never drop before getting a full meta 12 man with 11 other experienced guys. And sometimes even those run into their equals and some of them will fail.
(And let´s not delve too deep into the mathematical impossibility that in said 12 mens each and every member gets 3+ kills each game, arright?)

Those might not technically lie, but they certainly are cowards. If you shift the chances as far as possible and then go on to claim infallibility that is more than twisting the truth a bit. Therefore they will not receive any kind of respect by me.

--------------

You sound a bit like you cramped up recently. The only solution to that is to step away from the game for a day or two. Some days, heck, even some weeks ar just jinxed. Accept it, breathe, try again later. That is all there is to it.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 27 March 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[grendeldog]

This may sound weird because you'd think that the more time you put into a mech the better you'll get, but I really suggest switching to another mech for a day or two. I find that when I get into a rut with a mech it's best to change to something that has a different role, play that a while, and then return to the initial mech. That's taken me as a new player from sub-100 damage games to 420 damage in a Stormcrow-C today and my new personal best of 617 damage in a Hunchback-4P, having previously been sucky with them and having taken a break of two days or so.

Give it a try, hopefully it'll help!

[Peiper]

This thread is maybe the most excellent, educated, civilized and positive thread I think I've ever read in my years of trolling these forums. The advice given here can apply to many different mechs, too, not just Timberwolves. In this thread, the fundamentals of playing a heavy mech are laid out in clear, easy to read formats and while some opinions differ, it is all good advice.

A couple points I would like to restate here plus two other new points:

1. Newcomers are playing against people who've memorized maps to the point where they can walk the maps backwards knowing where rocks and buildings are. You will be fighting against guys who can walk backwards back to their lines, shooting effectively all the way, and draw you into the combined fire of their teammates. Good teams, as well, learn to take turns taking hits. The guy you hit and cored that you know you can take out with one more shot, well, that player may be experience enough to know to hide behind the rest of his team making it dangerous for you to approach him. Meanwhile, he's looking for other targets while you're dying to get to him.

2. Situational awareness is key. Use your minimap. If you don't see you're within a blob of blue arrows, you're playing the mech incorrectly. The Timberwolf is FAST and easy to wander away with. This game DOES have a hell of a learning curve, so don't beat yourself up. That's why I say JOIN A TEAM. Get teamspeak fired up and get to work. A person who is as conscious as you are about trying to become a better player will probably find a home among like-minded people. The LCAF HUB is one great place to find teams. You can register as a lone wolf and visit all the teams there until you find one where you feel at home. ts1.housesteiner.com . Anyone reading this thread is welcome to check us out. Lots of great teams there of all personalities. This is more than any shooter type game, a team game. You just can't succeed alone.

And new stuff.
In general, clan mechs move fast, carry more weapons than IS mechs, but they run really hot. Avoid brawling when piloting clan mechs. In a one on one fight, IS mechs run much cooler, so if you don't knock em out right away, they'll roast you while you roast in your cockpit.

A method I use to keep myself from getting too close/running in to die, which I learned on my slow fat Atlas. Even though I was in the slowest mech in the game (back then), I would find myself in front brawling with my large lasers and PPC's. Tactically, I don't like to brawl. I like to fight at medium ranges, but I have a natural tendency to want to charge into my target. As I never want to stop moving (movement is life in this game) while targetting something, I tended just to get too close all the time and get focused down or outmaneuvered by lighter mechs. So, here's what I did: I put LRM's on my Atlas. I couldn't fire them effectively under 180 meters, and I made myself not get any closer than 180 meters until my racks were completely dry. I took enough ammo to keep me from getting in the enemy's face for at least half the match. Then when I went in, I could clean up, or at least not fight EVERY bad guy at once.

Oh, and to repeat what some others said. I have 5000 games or more under my belt. (I really don't know and since the reset my stats, I don't care.) Some matches today, I died first without doing more than 50 points of damage. Others I scored plenty of damage and multiple kills. First, your MATCH SCORE is more important than damage and kills. It takes into account stuff like how you helped your team out as well. I go for 100 plus match scores, and that is what makes me all warm and fuzzy - because it shows better than I'm a team player, and I don't care so much for personal glory. Second, ELO - which is the matchmakers way of tracking your skill level - sets you up with people of the same skill levels, ideally. So, you may THINK you're not progressing, when you actually ARE, but because the competition stays the same level as you are as you progress, it SEEMS like you're not doing any better now than you were a week ago.

Oh, and yet one more thing. Since my Clan Heavies are so fast, I'm learning to walk slower with them as to stay with the team, only in closer fights or strafing/sidestepping do I put the pedal down. Clan mechs, even a Timberwolf, takes a lot of skill to really excel with.

Find a team, practice, dominate!

[mailin]

So much good info on this thread. I have nothing to add other than if you take the previously mentioned suggestions and even work on just one of them, your stats and enjoyment of this game will improve. But note that there will still be frustrations in this game like any other game. Sometimes you are still going to get shot in the cockpit by that double gauss sniper that you didn't see. Oh well.

The two best pieces of advice from this thread, in my opinion are;
1) stay with your group

and

2) don't overheat.

Stay with your group EVEN if you disagree with what they are doing. Get behind the assaults and fire on what they fire on. If you get a light on you, DO NOT PANIC. Lights can be killed, but if you panic and start alpha striking you will overheat. Instead, stay calm, and chain fire your weapons on the light that is circling you. You will do a little damage in an instant, but more damage over time, and aim low. Take out a leg on a light and THEN you're good to start alpha striking.

[Virgil Greyson]

My small tidbit of advice. Every time you poke your head out, always be thinking about making a good trade. What I mean by this is, if you think that exposing yourself to get a shot off will do equal or greater damage to the enemies that will be returning fire then it was a good trade. If you get a piece blown off and get nothing done, it was a bad idea to show yourself. It takes a lot of games to realize when enemies are going to be busy elsewhere. Another good way to look at it is armor is a resource. Like ammo, it should be used intelligently because you have a limited amount of it. Getting shot is not a bad thing, as long as the trade was in your favor.

Playing the Hunchback 4P trial is actually a good way to learn this trick (its also my main mech, so I am a bit biased). You have a hunch full of lasers capable of carving off a nice chunk of an enemy mech, but its also very easy to hit and once its gone, you are mostly worthless. Learning to keep that hunch alive will actually train you very well in the art of good trades, and using cover effectively.

Good luck out there.

Edited by Virgil Greyson, 28 March 2015 - 12:36 AM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Peiper, I'm glad there's someone other than me hurling walls of text at newcomers

Everyone has been so fantastic, I have little to add other than this;

You've got 3-4 paths that you can go down, OP:

a) Improve quickly by actively evaluating what went WRONG, what went RIGHT in EVERY match you play. Do NOT disconnect when you die. Watch other players! The BEST way to get good at ANY competitive online video game in a hurry if you're new is to WATCH THE BEST PLAYER. Okay, not always the best player, but at least watch good ones! Watch people that you think "damn, I wish I could play like THAT." Actively seek out knowledge on good mechs, but don't feel stuck to using "meta" mechs. I suggest using powerful weapons, but using the chassis that you feel right with.

Improve slowly by simply playing more. The above option assumes that you are continuing to play, of course. You'll get better by virtue of practice, albeit not nearly as quickly. This option may be best if you have time enough to play regularly, but not enough time/interest to research and put a lot of thought into the game. And that's fine!

c) Don't improve, and only play intermittently. Of course, I don't want you to choose this option at all, but its there. You'll probably not improve if you only play a bit here or there without thought.

d) Quit the game, and don't play. Obviously not the one I want you to pick!

So yeah, I guess I've outlined your possible courses of action and given a bit of advice. Listen to the folks here; most of the population of MWO is older than your average game's population, and I think thusly more civil and helpful. We all know what it's like to think "what in gods name just happened, why did i just blow up oh god too many things help help"

...least I do, wasn't that long ago for me. I got founder's access, played for a month on release, and then quit until probably a bit less than 1.5 months ago. Yes, I've played heaps of games since I was young, and I'm experienced at MW2/3/4/mektek, but I'm currently averaging above 1k damage in CW, with plenty of points as well. About 800 damage with my heavier mechs.

Point is, I tried REALLY hard and ready EVERYTHING about the game because I wanted to get better. So I got better, and in quite a hurry, I think. I've never had a game I didn't have some sort of fun in with MWO.

Oh, and as an afterthought, try to find a nice group to hook up with! There's NOTHING better than direct coaching from a veteran player.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 28 March 2015 - 02:37 AM.

[FlukeNL]

As a New player I have been reading a lot in the forums. And I mean a lot. This thread nicely combines with the reasoning you should play a mech you like the feel of and that fits your prefered style of playing. You'll get a feeling for this by the time you have your cadet bonus. This info will help in your mech choice. From there on, skills Will do the rest ( I hope ) Thanks for all the info. Off to read some more

Edit: typos because of Android auto type removed

Edited by FlukeNL, 28 March 2015 - 06:16 AM.

[Averen]

Always mind, when we're complaining about the TBR being OP it's just about that mech in comparision to other mechs. That doesn't mean the game is easy, or that you can't do mistakes in a timber. Especially overheating is a beginners trap (that does happen to experienced pilots as well), and the Timber with his huge alphas is indeed a hot mech.

If you want something cooler, try 2xUACs or Gauß +Laser on the mech. That means you always have something to fire when your mech goes to hot. Check how much percentage of heat a laser salvo creates at the beginning of a match (and try not to hit teammates), and memorize at what point you need to stop firing (e.g. 34% heat means you stop at 66% mech temperature).

Edited by Averen, 28 March 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

In case it hasn't been mentioned already: By a decent mouse and adjust the settings.

It's good when you can keep your aim on that part of the enemy mech that you want to hit without painting your lasers over the whole body.


Also: Try a medium mech that is NOT top tier (Trebuchet works well). Use an unremarkable paintwork. Stay close to the most dangerous assaults (Dire, Crab ...). The odds of getting hit will diminish tremendously.

Edited by Sthtopokeon, 28 March 2015 - 09:25 AM.