168 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 28 December 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

First: why resurrect an 8-month-old thread just to make a dig?

Second:
The sizes of the weapons - including calibers of the ballistic weapons (see here and here), aperture sizes for some of the lasers (see here, and the post you've quoted), and the diameters of the LRMs - are given in the lore.
Correctly-sized weapons look better than those that are oversized to the point of silliness.


There is neither good reason nor need for a JagerMech to look like it's hauling around the guns of an Iowa-class battleship when its weaponry is supposed to be the same size as a good-sized towable howitzer, or for any 'Mech to have LRM/SRM missile tubes big enough to accommodate moderately-sized cruise missiles when the missiles themselves are small enough to be man-portable and shoulder-launched.

1st) Actually ende dup here roundabout from another post, and hadn't actually seen those last posts til now.

Also, don't consider it a dig so much as a curious inconsistency with your posting pattern.

Second, you strenuously cling to lore in most things...but don't want them to visually look correct? Because on a 13 meter mech (PGI scale Jagermech), let's be honest, 40mm Bofors https://en.wikipedia...i/7.5_cm_Pak_40 (ac2) and 75 mm 7.5 cm Pak 40 (ac5) https://en.wikipedia...i/7.5_cm_Pak_40 would look ludicrously bad.

Also that "ac5" weighs all of 3 tons. Not 8. So obviously, judging by the massive across board of Btech weapons, they are NOT analogues of modern day guns.


heck those 2 40mms would be not much larger than MWO MGs on the Jager.

No one is legitimately asking for Gundam guns in this thread (at least the OP never did) but sorry the guns like on the Jager look objectively stupid.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 28 December 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Strum Wealh, on 28 December 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

There is neither good reason nor need for a JagerMech to look like it's hauling around the guns of an Iowa-class battleship

You could make the case that even though the inner diameter might be low, the barrels are thick because of an armor or cooling sleeve, since having a naked, exposed, vulnerable weapon barrel sticking out would be quite the weak-point, but covering it with a thick sleeve of armor would mitigate it.
At least that's how i always imagined large weapons in Battletech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 28 December 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

You could make the case that even though the inner diameter might be low, the barrels are thick because of an armor or cooling sleeve, since having a naked, exposed, vulnerable weapon barrel sticking out would be quite the weak-point, but covering it with a thick sleeve of armor would mitigate it.
At least that's how i always imagined large weapons in Battletech.

Or...as a logics approach?

Mech Rifles are analogues to modern day tank guns.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_Rifle

These are 1 shot, "heavy load" guns.

Now considering how much more powerful Btech ACs are supposed to be, and considering the pounding they would take since most if not all are technically "burst" guns (even if it really makes NO sense in most cases with their specs), the much larger heavier barrels, etc may well be required reinforcement to handle the pressure and recoil of these monster sized weapon.
(After all, a Marauders GM Whirlwind AC5 is a 120mm, and apparently a 5 shot burst.... so imagine a bofors rapidfire like Rheinmetall 120mm gun strapped to an Abrams.... tapping out 5 shot burst in about half a second. Massive barrels would be needed to handle pressure (especially in a barrel jam) and the insane barrel heat... not to mention the recoil).

I mean this is kind alike an AC2....

https://youtu.be/dSp7CipN1pw?t=2m15s

only the btech ac2 hits harder and penetrates more.....

Now imagine rapidfire 203mm version used for the Ebon Jags UAC20.....which to play devils advocate.
https://en.wikipedia...3%A8le_1924_gun
we see a 20 ton real life version..... and that's nowhere near full auto.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 28 December 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Juodas Varnas, on 28 December 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

You could make the case that even though the inner diameter might be low, the barrels are thick because of an armor or cooling sleeve, since having a naked, exposed, vulnerable weapon barrel sticking out would be quite the weak-point, but covering it with a thick sleeve of armor would mitigate it.
At least that's how i always imagined large weapons in Battletech.

As it happens, I touched on the same idea in a previous post.
"Of course, part of the issue (such as it is) is that using known/realistic weapon scaling, even if one also assumes the use of incredibly-thick (e.g. 150 millimeters thickness) protective cowlings, doesn't support the "oversized 'battleship gun barrels' aesthetic" that some people seem to like (see, the recent threads regarding the dynamic geometry of the JagerMech and the Cataphract)."

From the front the barrel would essentially be an annulus (ring-shape), with the gun bore forming the central hole.


Even of the weapon bore (from point b to point c in the above diagram) is 203mm (7.87 inches, the largest known BT AC caliber) and the barrel sheath (from point a to point b, from point c to point d) is 150mm thick, the overall outside diameter (OD) of the barrel would be 503mm, or 19.80 inches.
Even though a ~20-inch-wide barrel with an ~8-inch bore sounds huge, the fact is that the barrel is less than two feet wide & would still appear tiny on a 'Mech that is 13 meters (42.65 feet) tall (the height that Bishop gave for the MWO JagerMech).

Even if our hypothetical barrel sheath thickness was increased to 203mm, the OD would be 23.97 inches (609 millimeters, or 0.609 meters, or just under two feet) and would represent just 4.6% of the height of a 42.65-foot-tall 'Mech - so, even a sheathed barrel with a relatively "huge" outside diameter would still appear rather small for that 'Mech.

Additionally, bear in mind that in BT canon, the vast majority of all BattleMech chassis in all weight classes are between 10 meters (32.81 feet) and 12 meters (39.37 feet) tall, so the relative proportions of an AC of a given caliber between most 'Mechs wouldn't change much (with the ODs of the largest AC barrels, as described above, being only ~5-6% of most BattleMechs' heights).

Edited by Strum Wealh, 29 December 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Hillslam]

There is no good reason for sexzy to look sh!tty in a sci fi stompy robot game. This ain't real world and THIS LOOKS LIKE SH!T


And while the above is a photochop, this below is not, and I repeat, THIS LOOKS LIKE SH!T.
Its been years, PGI, fix your art.


#NEVERFORGET

[Mead]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 March 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Love this, but the shadow needs adjusting as well!

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 29 December 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

As it happens, I touched on the same idea in a previous post.
"Of course, part of the issue (such as it is) is that using known/realistic weapon scaling, even if one also assumes the use of incredibly-thick (e.g. 150 millimeters thickness) protective cowlings, doesn't support the "oversized 'battleship gun barrels' aesthetic" that some people seem to like (see, the recent threads regarding the dynamic geometry of the JagerMech and the Cataphract)."

From the front the barrel would essentially be an annulus (ring-shape), with the gun bore forming the central hole.


Even of the weapon bore (from point b to point c in the above diagram) is 203mm (7.87 inches, the largest known BT AC caliber) and the barrel sheath (from point a to point b, from point c to point d) is 150mm thick, the overall outside diameter (OD) of the barrel would be 503mm, or 19.80 inches.
Even though a ~20-inch-wide barrel with an ~8-inch bore sounds huge, the fact is that the barrel is less than two feet wide & would still appear tiny on a 'Mech that is 13 meters (42.65 feet) tall (the height that Bishop gave for the MWO JagerMech).

Even if our hypothetical barrel sheath thickness was increased to 203mm, the OD would be 23.97 inches (609 millimeters, or 0.609 meters, or just under two feet) and would represent just 4.6% of the height of a 42.65-foot-tall 'Mech - so, even a sheathed barrel with a relatively "huge" outside diameter would still appear rather small for that 'Mech.

Additionally, bear in mind that in BT canon, the vast majority of all BattleMech chassis in all weight classes are between 10 meters (32.81 feet) and 12 meters (39.37 feet) tall, so the relative proportions of an AC of a given caliber between most 'Mechs wouldn't change much (with the ODs of the largest AC barrels, as described above, being only ~5-6% of most BattleMechs' heights).

and this is trumped by this

Hillslam, on 29 December 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

There is no good reason for sexzy to look sh!tty in a sci fi stompy robot game. This ain't real world and THIS LOOKS LIKE SH!T


And while the above is a photochop, this below is not, and I repeat, THIS LOOKS LIKE SH!T.
Its been years, PGI, fix your art.


#NEVERFORGET

all day every day.

We're playing a video game. Rule of cool is numero uno. It's what got us playing stompy robots in the first place.

Mead, on 29 December 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Love this, but the shadow needs adjusting as well!

true.

[IG 88]

who asked for big GUNS ?

[Danghen Woolf]

There was actually a game mechanic from the old Tech Manual (IIRC) that addressed the big guns on small chassis, crit space limiting. It made it so that tonnage actually determined the number of crit slots available.