11 replies to this topic

[Johny Rocket]

My sampling of mechs so far is slim so I hope other experienced players will chime in.

XL engines are very expensive and are a death trap on the wrong mech or just pointless because of slots. So I want to give the noobs some 1st hand advice on which mechs xl or std is right for.
XL engines are lighter for the same speed and power but put vital engine components in the side torso for 3X chances of you mech sniffing the ground.
I cap my discussion here at XL 300 as that is the max engine I have to give good data. XLs are expensive so I worry about cross compatibility.

All of this is opinion based on my personal experience.

Stalkers.
Decent torso hitboxes but you will run out of slots before you really get anywhere with your dreams of a fast Stalker with a crushing alpha. This is a slow mech but has the Battlefield survivability of the Hulk. The sight of you will cause panic amongst your enemy, want to live up to that step up a few STD engines and go with endosteel and double heatsinks. Or you can drop 6 large lasers and a STD 300(62.9kph) in a 4N/3F and have some laser boating fun that makes them run from you. Please please please check your friendly fire. I swipe in the back from that things alpha can kill a lot of mechs.

Jenners
Probably the most slanted center to side torso hit boxes in the game. The JR7 F with an XL 300 can and elite tier speed tweak(10% speed increase) can go 152.7 and still pack 4 medium pulse lasers. With speed tweak XL 235 119.6 kph XL 245 124.7 kph

Catapult
Can't remember the engine cap on this one But to big with a STD and bye bye Lrm boat dreams, XL and its slot issues or ton issues if you don't upgrade endosteel.
Another "its not Nascar" mech, if you really want to be affective. Its a heavy so 64kph ain't bad from the stock engineand gives good survivability.

Kintaro
XL all the way. Great side torso hit boxes. Endosteel STD Armor and double heat sinks you have plenty of slots for a lot of goodies on a medium mech. They can sport up to a XL360 but an XL 300 gets you hopping along at 88.4 kph/97.2 with speed tweak. The KTO 19 with an XL 300 can carry 2 Extended Range Large Lasers, 4 Long Range Missile 5, 2 double heatsinks in engine slots and 5 tons of lrm ammo. Heat management 1.24. Throw in an advanced zoom module and you are a fast nimble sniper. With the STD 275 you could only get 1 ERLL the 4 LRM5s, 4 tons of ammo and 1 double heatsink. 81ish kph

Wolverine,
I had much better luck with a STD Engine in the 6R than XL got a few pure side torso deaths from snipers, 100% health and then boom your dead. I chock this one up to thin armor more than hitbox.

The Thunderbolt 9SE(C) that you have all been trying so hard for.
XL, the side torso hitboxes are ok tonnage is your problem here, the stock STD 315 weighs 28.5 tons an XL300 weighs 15.5 and only loses around 7 kph. XL 315 weighs 18 tons no speed difference over stock. As far as I know this is the only way, survivability be damned, to make use of all this mechs quirks.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 30 March 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[mailin]

Any light . . . XL.

Shadowhawk takes an XL very nicely.

Hunchback, with the prominent hunch STD only. Everyone aims for that hunch, so why would you put your engine there.

Cicada XL because it handles a lot like a beefed up Jenner without jump jets.

[Prince Peter Davion]

This is an excellent read, thank you.

[Koniving]

mailin, on 30 March 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Hunchback, with the prominent hunch STD only. Everyone aims for that hunch, so why would you put your engine there.

If they're aiming at the Hunch after the quirks... they aren't very bright.

Typical armor layout.
46 right front. 56 center front. 36 to 40 left front.
Structure: 24. 32. 24.
Result: 46 + 24 = 70 combined front RT health. 56 + 32 = 88 combined front CT health. 36 + 24 = 60 combined front LT health.

Takes advantage of the benefit for the hitboxes.

Quirked armor. RT benefits: 18 additional front armor. 12 additional structure.
46 + 18: 64 front RT armor.
24 + 12: 36 RT structure.
64 + 36 = 100 RT health.

100 RT health or... 88 CT health?
Which do you shoot?

If they're going after the hunch, they aren't too bright.

Besides...

It's an awesome mech with an XL.

Edited by Koniving, 30 March 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[Eaerie]

I normally try and CT a hunchback nowdays but still that hunch is BIG and ends up taking quite a bit of fire. makes them a very durable mech, while maintaining effective firepower.

[InspectorG]

Lights = XL, cuz speed is armor for them.

Stalker, dont xl because your ST go quickly and you use them to shield damage.

Though, there is a reason to XL400 a Banshee(Wubshee) or even a Battlemaster. They can be surprisingly quick strikers, Banshees have those nice big shield arms.

Cicadas pretty much need XL, the CT/ST are fairly big and you want that quickness to hillhump and sidepeek.

Catapults XL pretty well, their ST are fairly slim.

Wolverines XL ok if you stay at range.

If you brawl, dont XL for obvious reasons.

[oldradagast]

You *can* run an XL in a Hunchback, but to be fair, I'm thinking of the 4J variant as an LRM boat. Why? Because by the time they are up in your face, you are already dead if you're running LRM's, so you may as well go XL and cram in more missiles to lob down-range.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

This is not exhaustive, and a few niche builds will violate my guidelines:

STD - Atlas, King Crab, Stalker, Zeus, Awesome, Jagermech, Hunchback.

XL - Jenner, Spider, Raven, Commando, Panther, Locust, Cicada, Blackjack, Grasshopper, Catapult, Centurion, Griffin, Enforcer, Dragon.

Either - Battlemaster, Cataphract, Wolverine, Shadowhawk, Thunderbolt, Banshee, Highlander, Victor.

These are just the mechs that came to mind and my advice based on piloting them and/or killing them.

[JC Daxion]

My rule of thumb is... Any light, use an XL, and then at your discretion at anything under 65 tons, that is my cut off, (i run them in some all my catapult builds, and some T-bolts as well, and i know Jagers can also use them in many builds. I have seen people say use um in victors, but i have not played them enough to know if that is a good idea or not.

[Anassi]

Koniving, on 30 March 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

If they're aiming at the Hunch after the quirks... they aren't very bright.

[...]
If they're going after the hunch, they aren't too bright

Except... that the hunch is very easy to hit from basically every angle while he can shield his CT with both sides. Take out the hunch, all but neutralize the 'mech. If he's smart he has the "**** you" laser in the head and MAYBE a weapon in the left arm left but for every Hunchie excep the -4SP that'll be about it. If I can fire at him straight on I'll go CT, sure thing, but if he twists and turns I'm gonna gun for that hunch.
That goes double for the Grid Iron because there you generally only need to chew through that 64 points of armor. After that the Gauss will pop if you so much as sneeze at it, often times taking the whole 'mech with it even if he doesn't run an XL. If he does he's boned either way.

[Koniving]

Anassi, on 30 March 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

That goes double for the Grid Iron because there you generally only need to chew through that 64 points of armor. After that the Gauss will pop if you so much as sneeze at it, often times taking the whole 'mech with it even if he doesn't run an XL. If he does he's boned either way.

Especially true for a Gauss build. I don't run them, so not much worry there.

The Hunch is easy to hit, but the hitbox design is akin to the Timber Wolf. Huge, and almost entirely "front", even some parts of the back count as the front.

The old hitbox allowed you to exploit this even better to the point of being nearly invincible -- provided you as the Hunchback pilot put 46 armor to the front right torso.

Orange is front side torso. Notice something wrong about the backside? I loved the tears that this caused.

Now, it tanks even better though there is a larger backside. It is still something that few if anyone hit, and with an almost 180 degree torso twist, there's no excuse for letting someone hit that backside. I run XL and STD Hunchbacks. These days death with XL is almost always left torso (non-hunch side), CT, or cockpit. Funny enough legs are hardly ever targeted on my Hunchback, though I wonder if that's because it's so short compared to other mediums?
----------
That said, Orions generally work better with STD engines. They are fast and easily carry enough tonnage for good firepower with good speed and max armor. Haven't played with my grass hopper yet. Cataphracts can go either way, but unless you're slapping in an XL 320 or higher engine, the XL isn't worth it in a Cataphract. Except the CTF-4X. Sometimes I admit I run an XL 180 and some BIG guns. Slower than dirt...great fun.

Catapults I find can work either way, just avoid enemy LRM fire. It'll ruin your day.

Thunderbolts can work either way but generally do better without XL engines. Like Stalkers they are built in such a way that they can really start tanking some serious firepower. When a side torso is blown away it provides 50% protection from the damage transferred to the CT (when that destroyed section is hit).

Jagermechs can work with STD engines but are almost universally used with XL engines in MWO. This is to carry lots of ammo.

All 55 tonners generally are XL friendly.

Trebuchet almost requires XL engines. Centurions can go either way as can Hunchbacks. Haven't played with my Enforcer yet but I understand it is super XL friendly.

My lights generally use XL engines. The Panther and Firestarter both run standard engines -- these things are like Thunderbolts. Once a side torso is gone they can tank like a bowse!

Highlanders, XL friendly. Banshees, not XL friendly. Battlemaster, Great both ways. Zeus, haven't decided. Seems XL friendly. Awesomes, mixed feelings. The 9M and Pretty Baby are the only ones you should XL. The others can't go fast enough to care.

45 tonners? XL friendly. Cicada? Never run it without an XL.

[Romeo Deluxe]

I found the Victor is a better mech with an XL. However, last time I leveled it was 2 years ago.