116 replies to this topic

[Soy]

No, it's not. That's why I said take it to the extreme for that example.

Just sayin, if you wanted to make **** as hype as possible, some sort of legit risk vs reward would make the match a little more important than "damn, we lost... ok, ready up for next drop!"

CW needs RnR of some sort, it really does. So much opportunity is there, laying in wait.

ps - Quickscoper, I'm gonna take your subjectivity of what best competitive game is with a huge grain of saltybet, thx.

Edited by Soy, 30 March 2015 - 03:13 PM.

[FupDup]

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

No, it's not. That's why I said take it to the extreme for that example.

Just sayin, if you wanted to make **** as hype as possible, some sort of legit risk vs reward would make the match a little more important than "damn, we lost... ok, ready up for next drop!"

CW needs RnR of some sort, it really does. So much opportunity is there, laying in wait.

See that post on the previous page for the explanation about "risk"...

You can keep it contained to CW exclusively if you really want, because I don't even play that mode anyways. I guess I can live with CW being the designated masochist/oldman/grognard playground of MWO since it's only an optional mode. However, don't be surprised if this was to negatively impact the population playing that mode...

[Soy]

It's already a ******* ghost town, what the ****...

[Gyrok]

Lily from animove, on 30 March 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

one of 4 here, i like it, yes its sometimes a bit annoying when it blocks vision, but wow, my RL doesn't depends on MWO, so who cares it still looks cool and is great. Window sweeper, lostech.

That constant need of people to stroke their epeen and taking any small advantage to improve everythign as tiny as it may be is just hilarious. Would call them configwarriors.

Actually my gripe is that I can own 100+ robots that cost an average of somewhere near 10 mil cbills to outfit and upgrade, but I cannot get a mech bay kid for 7.50/hr to clean the windows and spray rain-x on the windshields of those 100 mechs...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

ps - Quickscoper, I'm gonna take your subjectivity of what best competitive game is with a huge grain of saltybet, thx.

Yes, because the essence of Mechwarrior is gambling with real moneyz........

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 30 March 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[FupDup]

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

It's already a ******* ghost town, what the ****...

Precisely why you should be careful what you ask for...

[Soy]

What I ask for? **** dude, I don't ask for ****. No ***** given, I'm having fun regardless of whether my !dreams come true or if this ship sinks tomorrow. I already won, this is all leisure.

I'm just saying your argument was extremely coy. You post a lot, and talking that much is dangerous when your argument is paper thin junk.

Look I've played online games for 18 years, in my opinion, the best ones, the ones that last the longest, are either completely arcade mode - which is what regular queue is - or they are ones where "hair on your neck" moments happen cuz they rely on risk vs reward and the dynamic interactions that come off of that, the decisions, etc... thats what CW should be.

See: any FPS for arcade mode
See: UO, Eve for legit rnr

Now take a look at all the BT/MW lore and ****, and tell me we have what we need to immerse yourself in the inner sphere. I have the mechs; the rest, **** no.

Edited by Soy, 30 March 2015 - 03:21 PM.

[Davers]

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

No, it's not. That's why I said take it to the extreme for that example.

Just sayin, if you wanted to make **** as hype as possible, some sort of legit risk vs reward would make the match a little more important than "damn, we lost... ok, ready up for next drop!"

CW needs RnR of some sort, it really does. So much opportunity is there, laying in wait.

ps - Quickscoper, I'm gonna take your subjectivity of what best competitive game is with a huge grain of saltybet, thx.

But the most common IS CW mechs are all very cheap to run- standard engines, energy weapons. Many of the 'bad' Clan mechs use FF armour- so R&R makes them even worse choices to use. What exactly is R&R supposed to do?

[Soy]

Davers I'd imagine launching an invasion of an enemy orders of magnitude larger than you but 'sleeping' isn't cheap.

[FupDup]

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

What I ask for? **** dude, I don't ask for ****. No ***** given, I'm having fun regardless of whether my !dreams come true or if this ship sinks tomorrow. I already won, this is all leisure.

You've said a few times that you would really like RnR, at least for CW, so that is kinda similar to asking for it.

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

I'm just saying your argument was extremely coy. You post a lot, and talking that much is dangerous when your argument is paper thin junk.

You haven't done much countering of my arguments, so it's hard to call them paper thin. You have however called me autistic at least twice, but that doesn't really count.

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Look I've played online games for 18 years, in my opinion, the best ones, the ones that last the longest, are either completely arcade mode - which is what regular queue is - or they are ones where "hair on your neck" moments happen cuz they rely on risk vs reward and the dynamic interactions that come off of that, the decisions, etc... thats what CW should be.

See: any FPS for arcade mode
See: UO, Eve for legit rnr

You keep using buzzwords like "risk vs reward" and "dynamic" but you haven't really explained how those words fit the game feature we're talking about. You've just kept saying something to the effect of "But brah, it's totes risk and reward man!" (paraphrased).

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Now take a look at all the BT/MW lore and ****, and tell me we have what we need to immerse yourself in the inner sphere. I have the mechs; the rest, **** no.

RnR doesn't cause "immersion," it's just an extra line on your end-of-match report but subtracting from your total instead of adding to it.

[Barakus]

How about completely free repair and possibly re-arm for stock mechs?

[FupDup]

Barakus, on 30 March 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

How about completely free repair and possibly re-arm for stock mechs?

Stormcrow Prime said:

Yes, yes, don't mind me over here....

Edited by FupDup, 30 March 2015 - 03:29 PM.

[Davers]

Soy, on 30 March 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Davers I'd imagine launching an invasion of an enemy orders of magnitude larger than you but 'sleeping' isn't cheap.

Ummm…ok. Sorry you are having trouble sleeping?

[Bishop Steiner]

Rebas Kradd, on 30 March 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I fail to see how that's going to help balance medium lasers when you can put two of them on a Raven and nine of them on a Hunchback.

If you're suggesting that the hardpoint placement is buggered, that's a matter of balancing chassis. Not weapons.

balance is always about more than 1 dimensional thinking. If I have to explain the interaction of all the above to you, it's going to be a very long night.

[Alistair Winter]

I'm sure I'll be old and grey before I understand why MWO players on this forum, most of whom have played Mechwarrior games since the 90's, have a strong aversion for R&R. Anyone with any sense will admit that MW2:Mercs was one of the best MW games ever made, if not the absolute best. And the experience of being a mercenary commander with bills to pay was the cherry on top of that experience.

Some people make some half-hearted arguments about how R&R didn't work when it was originally implemented, or how it would punish new players. All nonsense, really. The fact of the matter is that R&R could be changed and modified to do just about anything, just like our C-bill incomes. It has more to do with modern gamer psychology, I think. People don't like the idea of paying bills, or the idea that upgrades come with a price tag on them.

Some people talk about R&R leading to players hiding and cowardly behaviour. I would personally welcome that. It goes both ways too. If I have cowards on my team, then I'm pretty sure there are cowards on the other team as well.

The battle is lost. I can only take some comfort in the fact that Chris Roberts had the good sense to implement R&R in Star Citizen. Indeed, many of the things I would have wanted for MWO, I will at least have in Star Citizen. So at least there's that.

[Davers]

Barakus, on 30 March 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

How about completely free repair and possibly re-arm for stock mechs?

Losing in a free R&R stock mech is still losing. This game isn't about stock mechs. It was never designed or balanced for stock mechs. Being forced to use stock mechs would be a terrible experience.

[Davers]

Alistair Winter, on 30 March 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

I'm sure I'll be old and grey before I understand why MWO players on this forum, most of whom have played Mechwarrior games since the 90's, have a strong aversion for R&R. Anyone with any sense will admit that MW2:Mercs was one of the best MW games ever made, if not the absolute best. And the experience of being a mercenary commander with bills to pay was the cherry on top of that experience.

Some people make some half-hearted arguments about how R&R didn't work when it was originally implemented, or how it would punish new players. All nonsense, really. The fact of the matter is that R&R could be changed and modified to do just about anything, just like our C-bill incomes. It has more to do with modern gamer psychology, I think. People don't like the idea of paying bills, or the idea that upgrades come with a price tag on them.

Some people talk about R&R leading to players hiding and cowardly behaviour. I would personally welcome that. It goes both ways too. If I have cowards on my team, then I'm pretty sure there are cowards on the other team as well.

The battle is lost. I can only take some comfort in the fact that Chris Roberts had the good sense to implement R&R in Star Citizen. Indeed, many of the things I would have wanted for MWO, I will at least have in Star Citizen. So at least there's that.

Was MW2 a completely online PvP game where all your earnings are partially decided by your ping? No? Then it doesn't count in this discussion.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alistair Winter, on 30 March 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

People don't like the idea of paying bills, or the idea that upgrades come with a price tag on them.

Who would've thought that people would not want to pay bills....in a game.

It worked for MW2 because it as a single player game who's only combatents were AI and there was a clear end. This however is an online arena shooter and CW just adds a purpose to that arena.

[Rebas Kradd]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 March 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

balance is always about more than 1 dimensional thinking. If I have to explain the interaction of all the above to you, it's going to be a very long night.

I ain't got a wife to please, feel free to explain.

You can't balance weapons. You can balance chassis, and that's what the quirk system is intended to do. But the mixed-up nature of hardpoints (some mechs come as boaters, some like the Atlas are shafted because their hardpoints are mixed) means that variants are what needs attention. Doesn't really matter what dimension you pick - whatever benefit or drawback you assign to a weapon gets magnified disproportionately with boater mechs to a greater degree than mixed mechs.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 30 March 2015 - 03:37 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Oh great and powerful genie of the mechlamp. Please fix hit registration. Help the devs to find the divine wisdom to balance all mechs.



...And a couple of million dollars for me. >.>