263 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

That many DHS isn't enough for 2 ER PPCs AND 6 MPLs. Why wouldn't you just use LPLs instead? They work better with 6 MPLs anyway.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 April 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

LOL, im not talking about the over quirked bullshit mechs, I mean in general. That TDR9s Was crap, 7 heat ERPPCs.... idk how PGI even thought that was a good idea.

That is my point though, it doesn't take much to make PPC/ERPPCs good at brawling as far as heat goes.

The only true way to make them better sniping weapons without improving their ability to brawl outside of adding a charge mechanic is making them take longer to recycle which is how it should've been in the first place. Of course we won't ever have that because of weird rules the man who shall not be named keeps in place.

[Soy]

I wreck with dual cERPPC Nova A/B shoulder tart sniper to open CW with, other than that, cLPL takes a huge **** on cERPPC.

Also, PPC was is and will always be better than ERPPC.

I don't really feel like commenting on the other concrete **** in this thread so that's all I have to say.

Edited by Soy, 02 April 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 April 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

That many DHS isn't enough for 2 ER PPCs AND 6 MPLs. Why wouldn't you just use LPLs instead? They work better with 6 MPLs anyway.

I did, just saying, you can mount 20 DHS effectively.


You asked for robots that could. Not that should.

[LordKnightFandragon]

WM Quicksilver, on 02 April 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

That is my point though, it doesn't take much to make PPC/ERPPCs good at brawling as far as heat goes.

The only true way to make them better sniping weapons without improving their ability to brawl outside of adding a charge mechanic is making them take longer to recycle which is how it should've been in the first place. Of course we won't ever have that because of weird rules the man who shall not be named keeps in place.

By giving them better velocity, slightly lowering heat on the ISERPPC to like 12 or 13, removing the heat and heat reduction quirks for the ERPPC/PPCs on IS mechs, giving the CERPPC its 15/15 and giving it a longer CD....

PPCs in general dont brawl well cuz they can be out done by better heat efficient brawling based builds. Or hell, even a laser equipped mech will out do you on heat. Barring bullshit over buffs or nerfs or w/e, PPCs are bad brawling weapons. THey are best used at mid range.....should be made that way and stay that way.

[Metus regem]

Novawrecker, on 02 April 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

Why? This game may not be a direct translation of the TT, but sure derives much from it. Standard PPC min range was always part of it and lead toward other interesting developments (such as the PPC Capacitor, Heavy PPCs, and Snub-Nose PPCs {my favorite as it was a tad lighter, had no min range, but also lost some long range}).

All the minimum range did was making it harder to hit at range 0-3, you could still fire, just add up to +3 to your target number. For MWO, why not just give a reduced damage effect if under that?

[Christof Romulus]

I have a proposal for PPCs and ERPPCs that would make them better at engaging long range targets.

It's called "Acceleration".

In a game called Crime Craft, there was a weapon called the Rocket Launcher. It had a very slow projectile speed (compared to the pace of the game) so hitting targets farther than LITERALLY point blank range was nearly impossible. The way this was solved was by creating an exponentially accelerating projectile. The rocket would start out slow, so nothing changed for close range use, but accelerated rapidly until impact, making it of actual value at long range.

So, perhaps we could give the PPCs an acceleration mechanic like that - moving about as fast as they do now for half of their distance, then rapidly accelerating after that point. Thus they have a chance of being used at the ranges they were meant to, while still being piss-poor for shooting people near you.

[Metus regem]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 April 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

LOL, im not talking about the over quirked bullshit mechs, I mean in general. That TDR9s Was crap, 7 heat ERPPCs.... idk how PGI even thought that was a good idea.

*looks at his AWS-8Q, then whispers* Shhhhh, we won't tell him about your 7.5 heat PPC's....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 April 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

By giving them better velocity, slightly lowering heat on the ISERPPC to like 12 or 13, removing the heat and heat reduction quirks for the ERPPC/PPCs on IS mechs, giving the CERPPC its 15/15 and giving it a longer CD....

PPCs in general dont brawl well cuz they can be out done by better heat efficient brawling based builds. Or hell, even a laser equipped mech will out do you on heat. Barring bullshit over buffs or nerfs or w/e, PPCs are bad brawling weapons. THey are best used at mid range.....should be made that way and stay that way.

Lasers are more heat efficient because they aren't PPFLD like PPCs are, heat efficiency isn't the sole decider in how useful a weapon is. MW4 ERLL/LL were the least heat efficient weapons in the game yet they were some of the best weapons and could even brawl (2 ERLL-LBX20 SCat for example) simply because they were the easiest to use.

Also, please give up the 15/15 damage, it isn't necessary for the weapon to be good nor will it ever happen. Even in MW4 they buffed the I-PPC damage to compensate for the damage shortage and it already had a 6 second recycle as opposed to the C-ERPPC's 8. I would like to see a heat reduction on the I-ERPPC on top of a velocity boost, but I'm willing to compromise to see how well a simple velocity improvement can boost its usage. Same with the rest of the PPCs. I would prefer better overall stats on top of a longer cooldown but I'm not expecting to get that anytime soon.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Metus regem, on 02 April 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

*looks at his AWS-8Q, then whispers* Shhhhh, we won't tell him about your 7.5 heat PPC's....

Lol, yeah, but those already only had 10 heat, it got like 15% reduction. Those only shoot to like maybe 600m if the thing is range quirked. Did the AWS also get a 25% CD buff to boot?

[Metus regem]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 April 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Lol, yeah, but those already only had 10 heat, it got like 15% reduction. Those only shoot to like maybe 600m if the thing is range quirked. Did the AWS also get a 25% CD buff to boot?

-12.5% Energy Heat Gen
-12.5% PPC heat gen
+12.5% Energy Range
+12.5% PPC range
+25% PPC voelocity
-12.5% Energy cool Down
-12.5% PPC cool down

This is on top of the additional structure buffs... so yes, my 8Q spits PPC's like a boss.

[LordKnightFandragon]

WM Quicksilver, on 02 April 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Lasers are more heat efficient because they aren't PPFLD like PPCs are, heat efficiency isn't the sole decider in how useful a weapon is. MW4 ERLL/LL were the least heat efficient weapons in the game yet they were some of the best weapons and could even brawl (2 ERLL-LBX20 SCat for example) simply because they were the easiest to use.

Also, please give up the 15/15 damage, it isn't necessary for the weapon to be good nor will it ever happen. Even in MW4 they buffed the I-PPC damage to compensate for the damage shortage and it already had a 6 second recycle as opposed to the C-ERPPC's 8. I would like to see a heat reduction on the I-ERPPC on top of a velocity boost, but I'm willing to compromise to see how well a simple velocity improvement can boost its usage. Same with the rest of the PPCs. I would prefer better overall stats on top of a longer cooldown but I'm not expecting to get that anytime soon.

Above all else, ERPPCs need higher velocity.....1050 and for PPCs 950, that is a joke....Yeah, I know AC10s move 950 or so, but those are also like what? 4 heat? PPCs dont need a longer CD unless they got higher damage as well. If anything needs a longer CD its the Gauss Rifle and AC20.....low ass heat and high ass damage, alongside a pretty fast CD for what they do.

Better heat would be nice to. I secretly know we will never get 15/15s, I just dream, and hard. Realistically, I would love to see the PPC maining mechs get good heat reduction to their PPCs. TDR ERPPCs are what? 10d/12h after quirks? THen 30% Velocity giving it over 1300ms. That is plenty doable. That is a much better trade for 10 PPD.

Warhawk quirks I realistically hope for
10-15% heat reduction for CERPPC, so like 13.5-12.75 heat
+15-20% Velocity, giving it over 1200ms velocity.
Some degree of improved heat dissipation or something. Maybe 5% more DHS dissipation from the LT?

Something that allows the Warhawk to fire the CERPPC maybe 10-11 times before shutting down, velocity that allows me to actually hit a moving target without the ability to side step it at 300m.....right now a Mad Dog at like 300m in a straight line is enough to out run the PPC bolt, while aiming slightly in front of it's nose.....

Should feel more like im firing a highly powerful bolt of energy, not lobbing a 120mm mortar shot...

[Pjwned]

I agree with significantly higher velocity for ER PPCs, but PPC velocity is good enough as it is, and in fact some existing PPC velocity quirks should be toned down. If the PPC isn't attractive enough then a heat reduction should be considered instead if you ask me, it shouldn't be used as a great pinpoint sniper weapon at long range and especially not like how it was before.

Something like 1,750 m/s sounds pretty good for ER PPC, which would make its velocity a little over double its optimal range so it takes a bit under half a second to travel 810m. If PPC velocity were to be increased again, I would say another 150 m/s at most for a total of 1,100 m/s so that it too can hit its target at optimal range in about half a second, but I would still rather not see it increased again.

C-ER PPCs should have lower velocity than ER PPCs to counteract their lower weight, slots, and increased damage, but it should still be faster than it is now; 1,500 m/s or 1,600 m/s seems pretty fair.

Christof Romulus, on 02 April 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

I have a proposal for PPCs and ERPPCs that would make them better at engaging long range targets.

It's called "Acceleration".

In a game called Crime Craft, there was a weapon called the Rocket Launcher. It had a very slow projectile speed (compared to the pace of the game) so hitting targets farther than LITERALLY point blank range was nearly impossible. The way this was solved was by creating an exponentially accelerating projectile. The rocket would start out slow, so nothing changed for close range use, but accelerated rapidly until impact, making it of actual value at long range.

So, perhaps we could give the PPCs an acceleration mechanic like that - moving about as fast as they do now for half of their distance, then rapidly accelerating after that point. Thus they have a chance of being used at the ranges they were meant to, while still being piss-poor for shooting people near you.

Might not be a bad solution but I don't think it's reasonable to expect that for technical reasons.

Edited by Pjwned, 02 April 2015 - 02:28 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

I used to run several builds that used the CerPPC, but a few months back hitreg really took a dive.

Once I was able to start shortening the CD with modules, I noticed that if I fired a CerPPC as fast as the CD was up, every other shot would not register.

That much heat for damage that doesn't register? Unacceptable. I had to pull them from all my builds and go with more consistent and cooler running weapons like cerML + guass.

[Lightfoot]

I don't think it matters what we think. It's obvious that PPCs usually miss moving targets beyond 300 meters and PGI is happy with this. Some players posted videos of them using the new slow-mo PPC and getting some kills, but they also missed anything moving past 300-400 meters in the video so obviously the PPCs were over-nerfed from a balancing sense. This gave rise to the Laser Vomit era we are in now. The joke is that Lasers actually do more damage than PPCs for a skillful player.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Metus regem, on 02 April 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

-12.5% Energy Heat Gen
-12.5% PPC heat gen
+12.5% Energy Range
+12.5% PPC range
+25% PPC voelocity
-12.5% Energy cool Down
-12.5% PPC cool down

This is on top of the additional structure buffs... so yes, my 8Q spits PPC's like a boss.

Does it apply to ERPPCs? Obviously the energy heat reduction does, is 12.5% a nice little reduction to make them worth taking? 13.125 heat for 10 dmg, removing the 90m min range? Seems niceish...

[Gas Guzzler]

Soy, on 02 April 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

I don't really feel like commenting on the other concrete **** in this thread so that's all I have to say.

Please, explain.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lightfoot, on 02 April 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

I don't think it matters what we think. It's obvious that PPCs usually miss moving targets beyond 300 meters and PGI is happy with this. Some players posted videos of them using the new slow-mo PPC and getting some kills, but they also missed anything moving past 300-400 meters in the video so obviously the PPCs were over-nerfed from a balancing sense. This gave rise to the Laser Vomit era we are in now. The joke is that Lasers actually do more damage than PPCs for a skillful player.

THey do, Lasers are hit scan, so even if you spread it, atleast your hitting your target. Then, for its duration, lasers basically give you a laser dot right to your target, so its easy to correct and basically drive the laser....

[Metus regem]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 April 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Does it apply to ERPPCs? Obviously the energy heat reduction does, is 12.5% a nice little reduction to make them worth taking? 13.125 heat for 10 dmg, removing the 90m min range? Seems niceish...

The 9M has the same quirks as the 8Q, but the 9M has them for ERPPCs, save that the energy cool down is just 15% nothing extra for the ERPPC.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ult_innersphere

It's why I had such a hate on for the Thunder Bold 9S, with the 50% heat reduction is was better at being an AWS-9M, than the 9M was.

Edited by Metus regem, 02 April 2015 - 02:24 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 02 April 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

I did, just saying, you can mount 20 DHS effectively.


You asked for robots that could. Not that should.

I wouldn't call that effective though.

If you should not, then why would you? And that's the point. Just because you can load up 2 ER PPCs and gobs of DHS doesn't mean you are going to have a good build.