45 replies to this topic

[Satan n stuff]

Alistair Winter, on 04 April 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Yeah. But Sean Lang makes these videos, and every featured mech tends to have those meta builds, for better and for worse.

I would really have loved to see an Urbie vs a medium mech or an Urbie vs a Kit Fox or something like that.

I wouldn't call 3 MPL and an AC/2 "meta", that combo is missing the point of either weapon so hard it flew off into space.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 04 April 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Satan n stuff, on 04 April 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

I wouldn't call 3 MPL and an AC/2 "meta", that combo is missing the point of either weapon so hard it flew off into space.

Fair point.

[Bishop Steiner]

Satan n stuff, on 04 April 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

I wouldn't call 3 MPL and an AC/2 "meta", that combo is missing the point of either weapon so hard it flew off into space.

Did seem a less than ... obvious combo....and not terribly effective. Thing was heatspiked the whole match.

[Zookeeper Dan]

The AC2 was probably on there to make the match last longer. If you use an AC10 or 20 on another 30 ton mech the fight is over after a couple of well placed shots.

[Bishop Steiner]

Danth Reduviid, on 04 April 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

The AC2 was probably on there to make the match last longer. If you use an AC10 or 20 on another 30 ton mech the fight is over after a couple of well placed shots.

am wondering how an ac2, 2.5 tons of ammo and 4 MLasers would handle on it though..... hmmm. I want a slow BFG Urbie, but I do want to play with some PPC and lighter AC versions, particularly if the UAC looks good.

[zagibu]

It's actually hard to make an AC/10 build not suck on a 30 ton chassis, go try it on a Spider. You have little ammunition, go slow, and skimp on armor. Also maybe 1 SL or ML at most as backup, if at all.

For AC/20, this is the best I can do: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1e0094579b44db3 This mech will answer the question whether it matters if you go below 50 kph. If the answer is no, better, but slower loadouts are possible with neg. tonnage engines.

Edited by zagibu, 04 April 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[Ecrof]

Forget ACs , 7 tons for an er ppc or 14 ton for 1 ppc and 1 er ppc.
SDR-5D

Edited by Ecrof, 04 April 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[Brody319]

zagibu, on 04 April 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

It's actually hard to make an AC/10 build not suck on a 30 ton chassis, go try it on a Spider. You have little ammunition, go slow, and skimp on armor. Also maybe 1 SL or ML at most as backup, if at all.

For AC/20, this is the best I can do: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1e0094579b44db3 This mech will answer the question whether it matters if you go below 50 kph. If the answer is no, better, but slower loadouts are possible with neg. tonnage engines.

urbanmechs will be released with under 100 engines I believe meaning they will have a bit more tonnage to play with than the spider.

[Roadkill]

Brody319, on 04 April 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

urbanmechs will be released with under 100 engines I believe meaning they will have a bit more tonnage to play with than the spider.

At 32 kph, sure. But for other than all-Urbie matches, 32 kph just won't cut it. You'll have to upgrade the engine, for which the Spider is a reasonable stand-in until Tuesday.

[Virgil Greyson]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 April 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Look awesome.... kinda sad to see all run as "Urbie MetaCheese" except the R6oL Bombadil was in in the end which appeared stock.

They even had the 'meta cheese' build kill the real deal just to mock us at the end, kinda funny. Urbie is classically slow, and should have been previewed as such.

Warhorn disappointing, now NGNG preview is sadly lacking. Hopefully we can end on a positive note?

Edited by Virgil Greyson, 04 April 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ecrof, on 04 April 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

Forget ACs , 7 tons for an er ppc or 14 ton for 1 ppc and 1 er ppc.
SDR-5D

the pilot a bloody spider, not an Urbie, lol.

Roadkill, on 04 April 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

At 32 kph, sure. But for other than all-Urbie matches, 32 kph just won't cut it. You'll have to upgrade the engine, for which the Spider is a reasonable stand-in until Tuesday.

True, for "real" play, I think it pretty safe to say a 125 will probably be the minimum range.

Doesn't mean I won't try to make slow Urbie work, though I think it would actually work OK for my Defend Dropdeck.

[Foxwalker]

The speed for those Urban Mechs is not reasonable for the games own engine cap system. For example stock speed on the Black Jack is 4/6 giving the cap of 84.6 KPH or 93 with Speed tweak. The Urbie is stock at 2/3 so it's cap should be somewhere close to the Direwolf. 40-60ish? I am not against this mech going faster, just that there should be a consistent scale. There are some other mechs, the BJ for one that could benefit from a little more speed.

[FupDup]

Foxwalker, on 04 April 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

The speed for those Urban Mechs is not reasonable for the games own engine cap system. For example stock speed on the Black Jack is 4/6 giving the cap of 84.6 KPH or 93 with Speed tweak. The Urbie is stock at 2/3 so it's cap should be somewhere close to the Direwolf. 40-60ish? I am not against this mech going faster, just that there should be a consistent scale. There are some other mechs, the BJ for one that could benefit from a little more speed.

There are other mechs that break the regular rules. Panthers, Hunchbacks, and Centurions come to mind...

The reason that some mechs get to deviate from pre-established formulas now and then is because of equalization. Some mechs had worse stock loadouts than others, so those certain mechs need a larger boost than the luckier stock variants do.

If we blanket-buffed all mechs by the same amount, the power gaps from TT/stock would remain just as large. The rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer.


For BJ's (and Vindis), yeah they could really use a min engine cap of 250, because sub-250 engines are bad due to not having all 10 sinks on the inside.

Edited by FupDup, 04 April 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[Foxwalker]

I sort of agree with you, except that the tweaking is not always consistent for all mechs that need it. So your equalization argument is still not 100% on the mark. There are some mechs that are just left out of the fix.

[FupDup]

Foxwalker, on 04 April 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

I sort of agree with you, except that the tweaking is not always consistent for all mechs that need it. So your equalization argument is still not 100% on the mark. There are some mechs that are just left out of the fix.

That's not a problem with deviating from the formula so much as failing to deviate from it when those outliers arise.

Blackjacks and Vindicators are a good example of this. They use the generic medium mech formula of stock engine * 1.3, which puts most of their engines at 235... This is where we should break from the formula and bump them to 250, so that they get all 10 heatsinks directly in the engine (and a bit more speed if you want).

[Foxwalker]

OK see I agree with that 100%. There are some others too, that should get that treatment. The Urbie is going to need all the help it can get. I wonder if after the initial glow has warn off if we will see them as often as Gold mechs.

[FupDup]

Foxwalker, on 04 April 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

OK see I agree with that 100%. There are some others too, that should get that treatment. The Urbie is going to need all the help it can get. I wonder if after the initial glow has warn off if we will see them as often as Gold mechs.

For Urbs, as long as it manages to be on a similar level as the Clan slow light I'll consider it "good enough" for the time being. I can actually get pretty decent results with a 2 LPL Adder, now to see how the Urbs compares...

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 04 April 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

For Urbs, as long as it manages to be on a similar level as the Clan slow light I'll consider it "good enough" for the time being. I can actually get pretty decent results with a 2 LPL Adder, now to see how the Urbs compares...

Yeah, kinda my outlook.

It's funny those crying "not slow, not an Urbie". Since all IS Light are going 40 kph or more (TDK is what...60 kph above standard for a CMD?) faster than stock, we got plenty of 89 kph assaults, heavies regularly in the 80s........

but apparently the Urbie should be locked in at 32 kph.

SMH.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 April 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

Yeah, kinda my outlook.

It's funny those crying "not slow, not an Urbie". Since all IS Light are going 40 kph or more (TDK is what...60 kph above standard for a CMD?) faster than stock, we got plenty of 89 kph assaults, heavies regularly in the 80s........

but apparently the Urbie should be locked in at 32 kph.

SMH.

It's a funny double-standard. Probably an issue with selective perception...

I guess it's kinda true that the Urbs gets a larger deviation from stock than any other current mech, but the core logic is about the same in the end; only Clan Omnimechs are locked to stock engines so far, and even then Speed Tweak lets them go slightly faster than their lore speeds. People have a tendency of forgetting the nitty gritty details like this.

[Trashhead]

I'm still kinda sad that the Urbie can break the 100 Kph barrier.
For me, some of the uniqueness of the Urbie is lost due to this.
It's supposed to be the slowest light ever made, now it can run as fast slow "FAST" as the slowest Clan lights.

According to Smurfy, with a 165 rating engine the Urbie would run almost 100 kph (i think t was 99,7 or so), which is still fast. I feel like this is a barrier the Urbie should not be able to overcome.
(I really like my Adders, and was doing fine in them even before i unlocked speed-tweak; the Urbie is even smaller then the Adders plus it has 360° Torso-twist ANd Jump Jets; both mechs have all their weapons in the arm (Flamer does not count atm). So the only thing that NOW makes the Urbie worse then the Adder is the inferior InnerSphere Equipment.)

I think the biggest problem the Urbie - with such a "slow" engine - would have had is the lack of a suiting environment - a "real" Citiy map.
Plus, of cause, you can not pre-select the map you want to drop on (or vice verse: can't choose the mech once you know the map).

To be clear:
I will most certainly also up the engine, but will try to stick to big guns one way or another.

And don't give me a "but you can use a slow engine if you want to".
It IS a difference if you CAN or HAVE TO use an engine of a certain size.