83 replies to this topic

[Davers]

I really hope PGI never gives players the tools to force other players out of CW.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

Davers, on 05 April 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

I really hope PGI never gives players the tools to force other players out of CW.

This.

'Approval' for merc contracts will just lead to player elitism and in my opinion totally kill CW.

It would be better to fix the loyalty system so you actually lose points when fighting against former contracts, keep the achievements but it will take longer to get back to your old award level.

[LastKhan]

Davers, on 05 April 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

I really hope PGI never gives players the tools to force other players out of CW.

That shouldnt be a thing. No one should be forced. Mercs should play a certain way so do loyalists. Put that "role warfare" pillar to actual use unlike this game currently.

Edited by LastKhan, 05 April 2015 - 01:02 PM.

[Lawrence Elsa]

Davers, on 05 April 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

I really hope PGI never gives players the tools to force other players out of CW.

Considering the disgusting amount of hatred towards fellow community members simply for having a preference for one faction, I agree. Having received a multitude of death threats, and over 2 gigabytes worth of screenshots of sexist slurs and other vulgarity in general, I know for a fact that giving players or units the ability to embargo a whole unit simply out of spite would cause every mercenary unit to be unable to play the game at all, because all it would take is one hateful person to create 10 alts and create one unit in each faction, and systematically ban every mercenary from every faction just because they're that bitter.

Edited by Lawrence Elsa, 05 April 2015 - 01:04 PM.

[Davers]

LastKhan, on 05 April 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

That shouldnt be a thing. No one should be forced. Mercs should play a certain way so do loyalists. Put that "role warfare" pillar to actual use unlike this game currently.

Role Warfare was a dream that everyone wanted so hard to believe.

[LastKhan]

Davers, on 05 April 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Role Warfare was a dream that everyone wanted so hard to believe.

Precisely, hence why i said; unlike in this game currently.

Would like to add this, on how mercs and loyalists should function in this game is in another topic that someone wanted to give to PGI. It had some decent ideas but i dunno if its still around or just buried and ignored.

Edited by LastKhan, 05 April 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[PoorDecisions]

Crottykid16, on 05 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

No....limit the and impact they have....when mercs and mercs ALONE control the factions ground gains....there is something REALLY wrong....MErcs are fine....but they should only make up a small % of the player base a very small %....thus negating their impacts on the CW map....

I don't see any actual solutions.

Who decides what % of the population is allowed to be mercs? Who is going to control what players can be mercs and what players can't?

Why do you care? You only care because you're losing planets, right? If you weren't losing planets then you wouldn't be complaining.

Repasy, on 05 April 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

That argument doesn't even make sense. The issue is high population disparity between factions. How can you blame loyalists for that?

I'm not blaming loyalists for anything. Nice strawman. I don't blame you for missing it, though. Sarcasm can be hard to read through text on a page.

Edited by manisuck, 05 April 2015 - 01:38 PM.

[PoorDecisions]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

Proposed solutions to PGI:

#1 - relocate Mercenary units to either IS or Clan where they are only allowed to fight for one side and not attack other houses or factions dependent upon their location. If at some point the example Mercenary unit decides to switch sides IS/Clan then they must pay a significant penalty (all earned LP or C-bills) for doing so.

That won't stop anything that you're complaining about. You'll still have merc units switching sides and you'll still be faced with the same problem.

Quote

#2 - dissolve Mercenary units altogether allowing only individual players Merc status. This would eliminate contract issues and promote the Merc status for players that desire the autonomy to switch between units whenever they like.

Yes, remove a valid game mechanic ENTIRELY because you're salty that the faction you chose isn't #1.

This doesn't solve the problem, either, because people will still be on comms in TS and still be coordinating what planet to hit and still beat you to control that planet. All you're doing is removing the unit tag next to their name and that doesn't solve anything.

Quote

#3 - give Mercenary units a distinct boundary on the map and implement a true contract system so they can be utilized as intended by factions and houses alike. They should not be able to roam freely like pirates to continually disrupt they play style of CW.

Yes, let's tell them that they only get to play at the kiddie table and segregate them to an area away from where you play because you don't want to lose.

...yet another pointless suggestion that doesn't solve the problem.

Of course mercs should be able to roam free like pirates.

THAT'S WHAT MERCS ARE.

[Defensores 6]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

Proposed solutions to PGI:

#1 - relocate Mercenary units to either IS or Clan where they are only allowed to fight for one side and not attack other houses or factions dependent upon their location. If at some point the example Mercenary unit decides to switch sides IS/Clan then they must pay a significant penalty (all earned LP or C-bills) for doing so - or not.

#2 - dissolve Mercenary units altogether allowing only individual players Merc status. This would eliminate contract issues and promote the Merc status for players that desire the autonomy to switch between units whenever they like.

#3 - give Mercenary units a distinct boundary on the map and implement a true contract system so they can be utilized as intended by factions and houses alike. They should not be able to roam freely like pirates to continually disrupt the play style of CW.

Wow this thread has gotten off topic rather quickly. So to refocus on my original concern - See proposed solution #1 in the quote above. I'm not whining about Merc units, but the degree of autonomy afforded to them in the game with regard to the CW map. As a clan loyalist, I expect to battle IS teams over planets and I'm certain the opposite is true as well - for me this is fun game play. It is not fun to get sucker punched along allied borders due to the jackassery of a Mercenary Unit.

In the beginning of CW this type of terrorist attacks caused great confusion among the clans. Now that we have clarity on the issue, something must be done to stop it. I do not have a particular issue with Merc units or how the choose to play and enjoy the game.

I do, however have great concern when my enjoyment is infringed upon due to something that can easily be fixed by the proprietors of the environment that is CW withing MWO. So, please stop baiting each other with mean-spirited remarks and think of a solution to force the hand of PGI. The onset of CW was a refreshing take on the game welcomed by most - I love playing CW - the liberties afforded the Mercenary Unit is making this play style much less enjoyable.

Frankly, it isn't the game or PGI that is at fault. It is the lack of responsibility / understanding of certain units and their leadership that allows things like this to happen. I'm not certain if it is purposeful or incidental, but something must be done. I think my proposed solution #1 is reasonable and easily implemented. It doesn't limit bonuses, LP, or anything else to Mercs. It does protect clan and innersphere loyalist players from the unintended border intrusion while preserving the spirit of the CW play queue.

I'm asking for feedback on the idea not finger pointing and booger flicking. If you are incapable of constructive feedback then please post elsewhere.

[_Comrade_]

The thing they need to do is limit the number of merc units that can join a faction right now as is EVERY MERC unit can join one faction and in the last event it seemed like that's exactly what they did by going to House Kurita. I kind of find it hard to believe that house kurita's coffers are so deep that they can afford to pay for 200000 merc units!! Kurita isn't even wealthy compared to House Steiner, i would understand if Steiner was able to afford to hire more merc units....but not Kurita and certainly not the FRR which in lore has a no hiring merc unit policy

Well if PGI did anything right, they did capture the hatred for merc units that is expressed in lore cause i believe most permcon units now hate mercs here in MWO

And looking at that video where's the bounty system, at least that would make things more interesting being able to place a bounty on a unit. That would get merc units to fight each other more rather then work together

[B L O O D W I T C H]

M E X, on 05 April 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

But they take them as BONDSMEN !
Just look at what Clan Wolf did with Phelan KELL ...

Bondsmen, that's something different then recruiting merc units. (who will take the planet with them upon abandon the contract)

BerserX, on 05 April 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Do you mean your specific lore unit does not "hire" (ask) other merc units for help or that merc units literally do not take clan contracts? - because the latter statement is stupid and wrong. Lol.

By lore, clans do not employ merc units. they might allow freeborns to serve as warriors, they might take bondsmen but they do not hire merc units.

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

There is NO confirmation that a map reset is going to take place. At this point, it's only being considered and nothing more.

Also, don't pretend like CW is so broken that it's not viable.

I do not pretend, and i said "very likely".

"In fact I will be considering a map reset after this fix has been implemented" ... "I think it would be pretty good timing for moving into phase 2 of our CW Beta."

CW is actually so broken. "Clans won 3330 of those matches, which equates to a ~53% win rate. Even with that win rate the IS took over 53 planets and the Clans took over ZERO. How is this possible you ask!"

Higher win rate, 2,8% autowin. IS took over 53 planets, clan took non. brokedy broke broke...

Edited by LOADED, 05 April 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[PoorDecisions]

In This Thread: nobody but clanners complaining about merc units and conveniently complaining because they lost 50+ planets last weekend

LOADED, on 05 April 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Bondsmen, that's something different then recruiting merc units. (who will take the planet with them upon abandon the contract)



By lore, clans do not employ merc units. they might allow freeborns to serve as warriors, they might take bondsmen but they do not hire merc units.



I do not pretend, and i said "very likely".

"In fact I will be considering a map reset after this fix has been implemented" ... "I think it would be pretty good timing for moving into phase 2 of our CW Beta."

CW is actually so broken. "Clans won 3330 of those matches, which equates to a ~53% win rate. Even with that win rate the IS took over 53 planets and the Clans took over ZERO. How is this possible you ask!"

Higher win rate, 2,8% autowin. IS took over 53 planets, clan took non. brokedy broke broke...

The hell does that have to do with merc units

[Defensores 6]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

That won't stop anything that you're complaining about. You'll still have merc units switching sides and you'll still be faced with the same problem.



Yes, remove a valid game mechanic ENTIRELY because you're salty that the faction you chose isn't #1.

This doesn't solve the problem, either, because people will still be on comms in TS and still be coordinating what planet to hit and still beat you to control that planet. All you're doing is removing the unit tag next to their name and that doesn't solve anything.



Yes, let's tell them that they only get to play at the kiddie table and segregate them to an area away from where you play because you don't want to lose.

...yet another pointless suggestion that doesn't solve the problem.

Of course mercs should be able to roam free like pirates.

THAT'S WHAT MERCS ARE.

You are being somewhat short-sighted on the issue. Everything that I have said you've rebuffed without offering a single counter-solution to my concern. There is a problem!! CW is not viable for faction players when we must defend 5 - 6 planets at a time while trying to conquer 2 more - this is a serious FN PROBLEM and one that must be resolved before the end of BETA!! The nucleus of the problem is the chosen habits of Mercenary Units (not individual players) and the liberties afforded to these units in the game. The reason this is a problem is because it reduces the enjoyment of strategy and RP for me - a loyalist player - and many others like me.

The CW queue is fast morphing into a version 2 of 12 v 12 pug drops because one hasn't a clue who they are dropping against anymore and this is due solely to Merc Unit play styles. This coupled with the IS Mech quirks, light rushes, and now Assault rushes... The game is filled with more frustration than relaxation and fun.

So, yes I think there exists a serious problem to which I have proposed a serious solution. I've asked for other possible solutions in this thread - I'm not a know-it-all. I believe that if this issue continues much longer that CW will diminish even further. I know that if this issue continues much longer that PGI will have at least one less paying customer.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

The hell does that have to do with merc units

actually quoted what's relevant for you. Should i draw a picture with paint so you're able to understand?

[Ihasa]

LastKhan, on 05 April 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Pretty much why im a Merc but we shouldn't not let them come and join the clans. keep play styles open for those who bought both IS and Clan mechs.

Honestly this game currently should be called" Mechwarrior Online; Mercenaries" cause thats pretty much it in CW since there isnt a way to separate loyalists and mercs besides what unit joins them..

The web address of these very forums is MWOMercs.com. dur.

[LastKhan]

Ihasa, on 05 April 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

The web address of these very forums is MWOMercs.com. dur.

hehe. well i made PGI a new MW;O logo they can replace.

Edited by LastKhan, 05 April 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[Defensores 6]

Ihasa, on 05 April 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

The web address of these very forums is MWOMercs.com. dur.

Just because Merc is in the title of the website doesn't mean they get to screw the game for everyone else.

[Ihasa]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Just because Merc is in the title of the website doesn't mean they get to screw the game for everyone else.

Everyone else? You mean the record participant numbers in CW they had this past weekend? or the other record numbers of players they had in game 3 or so weeks ago? or just you and other lore rp nonsense purists like you, of which there are a super minority. Even SWOL dudes got over that hang up months ago and realized there was a bigger game out there. Apparently you're one of the few hold outs left.

[PoorDecisions]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

You are being somewhat short-sighted on the issue. Everything that I have said you've rebuffed without offering a single counter-solution to my concern. There is a problem!! CW is not viable for faction players when we must defend 5 - 6 planets at a time while trying to conquer 2 more - this is a serious FN PROBLEM and one that must be resolved before the end of BETA!!

Your entire premise is faulty.

The more your clan gains, the more they'll have to defend it. The fewer number of planets you have, the fewer you'll have to defend. If your clan cannot put up the numbers to defend the number of planets you have, then you deserve to lose them. Something about spreading too thin, supply lines something something.

If you have to defend 5-6 planets, then defend them. If you think you deserve to try to steal 2 other planets as well, then you're one of those that think you deserve more than you deserve. If you have to defend, then defend. If you want to attack instead of attack, that's your choice.

Nobody owes you the right to attack 2 planets while also defending 5-6 at the same time. If you want to be able to do that, you need more people participating. If you CAN do that, more power to you. If you can't, well tough tah-tahs.

The only problem with CW right now is that tiny little switch between match types. Here's a nice little quote that you conveniently left out when quoting Russ [link]:

Quote

I took to twitter recently on this subject to explain how the event really exposed a flaw in the way CW determines the game mode. The system tries to switch back and forth between Invasion and Counter Attack to make things as fair as possible. However after 5 seconds if there is not an opposing team present it switches the game mode to the opposite so the existing team can achieve an auto win if nobody shows up. They then begin their 10 minute wait time and 98% of the time an opponent DOES show up. However the game mode has already been switched. This prevents the lower population faction from getting the game mode they need in order to either successfully attack or defend their planet, even though they are keeping up with the queue, preventing auto wins and perhaps even have the higher win percentage.

CW really isn't broken except for that one small detail, but that does need to be fixed.

Edited by manisuck, 05 April 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[Defensores 6]

Ihasa, on 05 April 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

Everyone else? You mean the record participant numbers in CW they had this past weekend? or the other record numbers of players they had in game 3 or so weeks ago? or just you and other lore rp nonsense purists like you, of which there are a super minority. Even SWOL dudes got over that hang up months ago and realized there was a bigger game out there. Apparently you're one of the few hold outs left.

What the what!? Did you even read the thread or you just jumping in the middle to conserve time and effort? I'm not a purist nor am a lore rp player. Get your poop in a group and come back with a contributing statement or keep your half cocked comments to yourself.