123 replies to this topic

[Kushko]

Reading up on Russes twitter he's really preoccupied with the 3LL with no ghost heat and the Stalker-4N being and i quote "a touch overdone".

Apparently a 4N firing 6 LL at once is too much (54 damage alpha and putting you at roughly 75% heat), but im not really sure why that is since i can do the same thing in a DireWolf but do double the damage with a bit less heat. And before you say that the DW is a 100tonner, i can get the same or better results in most heavy/assault clan mechs and IS ones as well.

So why is it that Russ and some of the community are making such a fuss about the "dreaded" 54 damage alpha stalker that cant do a second alpha on cooldown without overheating?

Edited by Kushko, 06 April 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[Xetelian]

I faced off against 6 of them last time I participated in clan war. Really don't think they're a big deal though.

[MechaBattler]

There's a good comparison to the Clan equivalent here; http://mwomercs.com/...awk-stalker-4n/

The Timberwolf has the same freaking firepower. So what's the big deal? Because it can out range medium lasers? Because suddenly the Clans get a taste of a 54 point alpha?

It's like the AC40 Jagermech. You get caught off guard and get rocked. Then cry about it on the forums.

[FupDup]

I could kinda understand slightly reduced quirks if he wanted to, but please oh please don't nerf the IS Large Laser. It's been a rather mediocre gun for its entire existence, it doesn't need any kind of reduction in effectiveness. It could probably even use a buff to the base gun itself, with some mechs getting quirks adjusted as needed.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 05 April 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

I could kinda understand slightly reduced quirks if he wanted to

I don't understand it.

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...ZMzA&authuser=0

[Lord0fHats]

The issue is that given the nature of the meta and the qualities of the Stalker as a mech, a firing line with a generous sprinkling of Stalker can overpower a Clan firing line at range because they can better take advantage of cover and torso twisting. I can definitely say from personal experience, that this has gotten nasty. It's very easy to find yourself opened up or missing a side torso before you can even respond just with 2 Stalkers deciding to take a shot.

However, I really don't want there to be a rush to a nerf on this. The meta in CW seemed heavily defined by the Clans using a ranged advantage to just gun down IS mechs. The 4N (along with a host of other good LL platforms) I feel has eliminated this simple (and boring) play option. The Clans can no longer favorably trade in the cover game for the most part but the cover game is boring so I'm cool with that.

I want to wait and see how players adapt to this shift. I think it'll result in some more interesting tactics and dynamics for CW play once players get over the initial shock and start looking for counters.

[Green Mamba]

I think the Stalker is played so much is its the closest a IS Mech can be to an Assault Clan Mech of course there was the 9S and we know what happened there..IF its close to Clan abilities Nerf it seeing a continuing theme here. They Paid Good Money for those Advantageous Clan Mechs and they want it to stay that way.I guess we just have to accept it. I haven't played CW for 4 months now and don't miss it a bit

The only Winning move Inner Sphere people is not to play.Let Clan Play themselves and don't worry about the map let it ride out

Edited by Green Mamba, 05 April 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 05 April 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

I don't understand it.

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...ZMzA&authuser=0

You might want to reread my post. It doesn't say what you think it says.


Brotip: I'm not asking for a nerf, I'm saying to not nerf the IS LL.

[Sjorpha]

It does not need a nerf, and the 3 large GH limit needs to be permanented.

The IS needs mechs that match the clans, the current 4N is a pretty good example of a well balanced IS mech. Buff the other mechs instead.

[Burktross]

Yeah, I think its fine.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Oh noes, its the Thunderbolt-QQ all over again.

IS has something that barely outperforms the clan laser vomit & at 27 kph slower, and clanners just can't handle it, again.

[reign]

Couple issues, 1 is the fact that the hard points allow it to only show about 20% of the mech while firing that deadly alpha. The rest of the mechs you showed had to show over 50% of their body to get the same alpha.

Burn time. The ER medium lasers have a much higher face time than the large lasers on the 4N meaning you have to have longer time staring at the target to get the max damage of the alpha ( you were shooting at a non moving target, that wasn't shooting at you).

But, but.. here is the thing. I wouldn't have any issue with it if they moved clan ER large lasers to 3 without ghost heat as well. (I will exclude clan large pulse lasers as their delta is way different).

Edited by reign, 05 April 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 05 April 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

You might want to reread my post. It doesn't say what you think it says.


Brotip: I'm not asking for a nerf, I'm saying to not nerf the IS LL.

I know you weren't, I'm saying I don't understand what Russ is thinking.

[MrZakalwe]

Kushko, on 05 April 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Reading up on Russes twitter he's really preoccupied with the 3LL with no ghost heat and the Stalker-4N being and i quote a "touch overdone".

Apparently a 4N firing 6 LL at once is too much (54 damage alpha and putting you at roughly 75% heat), but im not really sure why that is since i can do the same thing in a DireWolf but do double the damage with a bit less heat. And before you say that the DW is a 100tonner, i can get the same or better results in most heavy/assault clan mechs and IS ones as well.

So why is it that Russ and some of the community are making such a fuss about the "dreaded" 54 damage alpha stalker that cant do a second alpha on cooldown without overheating?

The issue is that the Stalker can do that while only poking the top of it's head over cover and having amazing hit boxes. If you don't realise how enormously powerful that it then I'm not sure how to explain it to you; the Dire Wolf has to risk serious return fire to do damage and the Stalker does not.

I love my Stalkers <3

6 LL is fun but I also still have a softspot for 4 PPCs which also still works surprisingly well mostly for the show ears, deliver 40pt precision alpha, lower ears factor; the enemy never really gets to fire back unless they charge you down.

Edited by MrZakalwe, 05 April 2015 - 02:37 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

Ultimatum X, on 05 April 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

I know you weren't, I'm saying I don't understand what Russ is thinking.

He got his face melted and he's mad

[Green Mamba]

reign, on 05 April 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

Couple issues, 1 is the fact that the hard points allow it to only show about 20% of the mech while firing that deadly alpha. The rest of the mechs you showed had to show over 50% of their body to get the same alpha.

Burn time. The ER medium lasers have a much higher face time than the large lasers on the 4N meaning you have to have longer time staring at the target to get the max damage of the alpha ( you were shooting at a non moving target, that wasn't shooting at you).

But, but.. here is the thing. I wouldn't have any issue with it if they moved clan ER large lasers to 3 without ghost heat as well. (I will exclude clan large pulse lasers as their delta is way different).

I don't care to nerf either IS or CLANS from where they are now ,but really you think we need to buff CerLLs to 3 w/o GH with their weight and Range and Damage advantages with the way the game balance already is Really? I think my above post is proven

[reign]

MrZakalwe, on 05 April 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

The issue is that the Stalker can do that while only poking the top of it's head over cover and having amazing hit boxes. If you don't realise how enormously powerful that it then I'm not sure how to explain it to you; the Dire Wolf has to risk serious return fire to do damage and the Stalker does not.

I love my Stalkers <3

6 LL is fun but I also still have a softspot for 4 PPCs which also still works surprisingly well mostly for the show ears, deliver 40pt precision alpha, lower ears factor; the enemy never really gets to fire back unless they charge you down.

This is exactly it, I own a 4N and a M. I have RVN - 3l and Ember. I was Kurita all last week and will be Liao all next week. (cant wait for 20% ac 20 ).

The clan pays for its extra damage on its Lasers in face time, the ER large lasers should get the same exact treatment as IS large laser group does. Then it would even out on its own.

[InRev]

reign, on 05 April 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

Couple issues, 1 is the fact that the hard points allow it to only show about 20% of the mech while firing that deadly alpha. The rest of the mechs you showed had to show over 50% of their body to get the same alpha.

Incorrect. Only 4 energy hardpoints are on the high-mounted arms. That means 36 points which is not particularly impressive. In order to get that full 54 you have to expose your big Zeppelin torso

[reign]

Green Mamba, on 05 April 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

I don't care to nerf either IS or CLANS from where they are now ,but really you think we need to buff CerLLs to 3 w/o GH with their weight and Range and Damage advantages with the way the game balance already is Really? I think my above post is proven

Yes I do, Clan pays for the damage by duration of the beam. and don't have quirks to shorten it. I think it would even it out at that point.

InRev, on 05 April 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Incorrect. Only 4 energy hardpoints are on the high-mounted arms. That means 36 points which is not particularly impressive. In order to get that full 54 you have to expose your big Zeppelin torso

True but then your only at 26% heat. And still the arms are way lower yet on dires and warhawks yet.

[Green Mamba]

reign, on 05 April 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Yes I do, Clan pays for the damage by duration of the beam. and don't have quirks to shorten it. I think it would even it out at that point.

I thought beam duration makes more a difference than it has but it is minimal all and all. Its a False Cookie..I know what I see in games by different levels of players