21 replies to this topic

[Postumus]

If there were alternate fire modes for AC/2, 5 and 10 that let you fire a two-shot burst (or more for the AC/2), for full damage, but with double the cooldown, would you use it? Would you consider this overpowered? And most importantly, would this make lower caliber autocannons more competitive?

Right now, IS autocannons that don't have a "20" in their name are a bad pick, because someone who doesn't have to stand facing you with their torso exposed can fire and cover. They do their full DPS while exposing themselves only to shoot, while the dakka mech has to keep standing their with their shoulders squared like a newbie boxer in order to do their full damage.

Front loading AC damage with a burst fire mode could help make lower caliber ACs more viable. Good idea or bad?

[Armorine]

Ultra auto cannon

[Stoned Prophet]

Postumus, on 05 April 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

If there were alternate fire modes for AC/2, 5 and 10 that let you fire a two-shot burst (or more for the AC/2), for full damage, but with double the cooldown, would you use it? Would you consider this overpowered? And most importantly, would this make lower caliber autocannons more competitive?

Right now, IS autocannons that don't have a "20" in their name are a bad pick, because someone who doesn't have to stand facing you with their torso exposed can fire and cover. They do their full DPS while exposing themselves only to shoot, while the dakka mech has to keep standing their with their shoulders squared like a newbie boxer in order to do their full damage.

Front loading AC damage with a burst fire mode could help make lower caliber ACs more viable. Good idea or bad?

God no. Learn to use the weapons as they are. I wish people would stop demanding PGI change the game to make it easier for the bad whiners.
If you want more pinpoint, dont use ac2/5s. use gauss ac 20 ppc.
Ib4 you say im a meta *****: My favorite AC is the 5 and I dont even use gauss.

Edited by Stoned Prophet, 05 April 2015 - 08:50 PM.

[MechaBattler]

If anything Clan ACs need a little help. Not a lot. But something.

[Metus regem]

The AC 10 is a good weapon, just in a weird place... Not as much range as the 5, but not much more range than the 20....

What I mean is the 20, will do 10 damage out to 500m...

That all being said, ultra AC's for the IS are coming, just a little ways out still. And I can tell you firs hand you do not want Clan style UAC's.....

[The Massive]

AC's are fine. You want 2 shots use UAC.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

This topic seems like it belongs in the Feature Suggestions section but I'll answer here anyway in General Discussion.

It would be interesting if the autocannons had a burst fire to them instead of a single slug shot but to me it'd make the game a little more difficult.

On that note, if they did make autocannon fire into a burst fire type, I'd hope they added the "knockdown" ability to them so if someone had two innersphere ac20s or three ac10s or 4 ac5s and hit someone, that someone would experience a gyro overload like how it works in Mechwarrior 3.

But I believe they'd bring back the "Knockdown by collision" feature first before they considered the previously mentioned features.

[Metus regem]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 05 April 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

This topic seems like it belongs in the Feature Suggestions section but I'll answer here anyway in General Discussion.

It would be interesting if the autocannons had a burst fire to them instead of a single slug shot but to me it'd make the game a little more difficult.

On that note, if they did make autocannon fire into a burst fire type, I'd hope they added the "knockdown" ability to them so if someone had two innersphere ac20s or three ac10s or 4 ac5s and hit someone, that someone would experience a gyro overload like how it works in Mechwarrior 3.

But I believe they'd bring back the "Knockdown by collision" feature first before they considered the previously mentioned features.

Clan AC's/ cUAC's are burst fire, and are very underwhelming... They require a lot of things to line up, to get full damage in one location, like the IS guns do...

[Postumus]

Armorine, on 05 April 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

Ultra auto cannon

Maccasimus, on 05 April 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

AC's are fine. You want 2 shots use UAC.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about a no-jam UAC. Firing two shots at once and waiting twice the cooldown time is the same amount of damage as firing one shot with a single cooldown period. All this would do would shift the damage, "front loading" it. It strikes me as something that would be very easy to do.

Also I'm talking about full damage rounds, not like clan ACs which do multiple partial damage rounds.

Edited by Postumus, 05 April 2015 - 09:22 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Sorry no, IS ACs don't need to be any better than they already are.

[SaltBeef]

IS auto cannons are strong easy to use and very accurate. Clan autocannons not so much!

[Postumus]

Huh. Seems like there's a difference in perception about IS autocannons. What I notice is that 1) the AC/10 is rarely used, because its projectile is too slow to really take advantage of its range, and is just mediocre for brawling, 2) AC/2's and AC/5's are almost always only ever used in dakka builds, where you are boating 4-5 AC/2's or 3-4 AC/5's. Dakka builds undeniably do a lot of DPS, and notice I'm not talking about increasing their DPS, but unless your target has nowhere to hide, dakka builds can be safely poked to death without taking much damage, because they have to sit there looking straight at you exposing their juicy torsos.

[Satan n stuff]

Metus regem, on 05 April 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

The AC 10 is a good weapon, just in a weird place... Not as much range as the 5, but not much more range than the 20....

What I mean is the 20, will do 10 damage out to 500m...

That all being said, ultra AC's for the IS are coming, just a little ways out still. And I can tell you firs hand you do not want Clan style UAC's.....

Nope, the AC/20 does only about 3 damage at 500m without some massive range quirkage.

[zagibu]

The problem with this change is, while it would improve single ACs on mechs, it would also massively buff the mechs who boat them. Imagine a 4xAC/5 Jager or Cataphract. It would get a 40 pinpoint frontloaded alpha. The 3xAC/10 Cata would get a 60 pinpoint frontloaded alpha. Way too OP.

Anything that increases frontloaded damage is bad anyway, IMO.

BTW: OPs suggestion nicely highlights one of the main challenges of PGI. Their hardpoint system means they can't buff single weapons without also buffing the mechs who massively boat them.They tried to fix this with ghost heat, but we can see in this thread that it doesn't work here.

Edited by zagibu, 06 April 2015 - 02:41 AM.

[Bobzilla]

I think it would be more of a hindrance than help, unless it came out as 1 shell. IS are strongest vs clans in a push with low heat pinpoint fast firing ballistics not letting clans take advantage of hotter longer range but slower lasers.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

We're talking about Innersphere Autocannons. We already know the Clan Autocannons are burst fire and not single slug shot.
Example 3:50~3:51 when he uses the autocannon10.

Metus regem, on 05 April 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

Clan AC's/ cUAC's are burst fire, and are very underwhelming... They require a lot of things to line up, to get full damage in one location, like the IS guns do...

[Metus regem]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 06 April 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

We're talking about Innersphere Autocannons. We already know the Clan Autocannons are burst fire and not single slug shot.
Example 3:50~3:51 when he uses the autocannon10.

-sigh- I get that, but your video shows the AC's acting like clan UAC's do in game, and that is how they should act according to lore, it was rare to find a single shot AC in lore, only a few of them come to mind off the top of my head. But PGI decided against using the burst fire mode when they first started into MWO, that changed with the Clans, but it was done to mimic the 2/5/10/20 damage that an AC2/5/10/20 would do to a single location in TT.

What having two different firing mechanics in game has done, is shown that single slug is vastly superior to burst mode, due to torso twisting of damage, not something that gets done in TT.

What I was doing was highlighting to the OP, that having a burst mechanic for his canons might not be what he really wants in the long run, provided he's used the burst mode Clan style, that split their damage across each round in the burst.

[Mcgral18]

Lucian Nostra, on 05 April 2015 - 10:46 PM, said:

Sorry no, IS ACs don't need to be any better than they already are.

Aside from the 2.

Those Ubernerfs really hurt it, which extended to their Clam counterparts. LB2x also has the same travel speed as an AC5 because of a bad copy paste...

A Sad Cannon.

[Christof Romulus]

Postumus, on 05 April 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

If there were alternate fire modes for AC/2, 5 and 10 that let you fire a two-shot burst (or more for the AC/2), for full damage, but with double the cooldown, would you use it?

Yes.

Quote

Would you consider this overpowered?

Yes

Quote

And most importantly, would this make lower caliber autocannons more competitive?

Yes

Quote

Right now, IS autocannons that don't have a "20" in their name are a bad pick,

Incorrect.

Quote

Front loading AC damage with a burst fire mode could help make lower caliber ACs more viable. Good idea or bad?

Bad

[RazorbeastFXK3]

You're missing the point entirely it seems. The OP is asking if it would be possible for the Innersphere Autocannon to have a toggle feature between single fire and burst fire.

Thank you for that info about the original mechanic of autocannons though as I've never played the TT version and never really followed the lore behind mechwarrior outside of reading the storyline provided while playing Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. Your first reply to my comment made it appear that I was saying the burst fire autocannons didn't exist in mwomercs. That's why I replied to your comment about the detail in my original message over what the OP was getting at and included the video.

Your "highlight"ing on the available burst fire mechanic of the clan autocannon was lacking detail though.

I do remember someone else asking about the ability to switch from burst to slug and from slug to burst with the autocannons whichever suited the pilot's personal preference in the field but I don't remember what came of it or if it just got filed away and buried.

Instead of having the option to drop with burst fire autocannons or single shot autocannons, I believe it would add more flavor to the game if the autocannons were all switched over to burst fire just to make things more interesting with the gameplay.

Metus regem, on 06 April 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

-sigh- I get that, but your video shows the AC's acting like clan UAC's do in game, and that is how they should act according to lore, it was rare to find a single shot AC in lore, only a few of them come to mind off the top of my head. But PGI decided against using the burst fire mode when they first started into MWO, that changed with the Clans, but it was done to mimic the 2/5/10/20 damage that an AC2/5/10/20 would do to a single location in TT.

What having two different firing mechanics in game has done, is shown that single slug is vastly superior to burst mode, due to torso twisting of damage, not something that gets done in TT.

What I was doing was highlighting to the OP, that having a burst mechanic for his canons might not be what he really wants in the long run, provided he's used the burst mode Clan style, that split their damage across each round in the burst.