Jump to content

Non Meta Light Mech Tactics Guide.

Light mech Tactics

65 replies to this topic

#1 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 06 April 2015 - 11:49 AM

This thread has an opening post so long that i have to split it up into parts. The rest are in the post down below till post #5.
I've also decided to name my tactics - Mechanical Rodent Martial Arts
M.R.M.A. for short. It's because i feel like a rodent (Skaven) when i hurry-skurry all over the place.

I've played using lights mechs since MWO opened to founders and i've discovered some unusual tactics i thought might become usefull.
In short matches (stomps) these tactics of mine are admittedly inferior to meta tactics, but in long matches they have the potential to become clearly superior.
In short if your looking for a guide on how to quickly destroy every enemy you see within seconds this is not the guide your looking for.

Also i haven't been able to make it work much in CW matches due to the gates and the dropships.
You'll see why as you read. I'll writte (skip) on stuff that isn't trully necessary for you to read.
If you're going to read all of this. Prepare yourself for a huge textwall monstrousity.

Also. English is my 2nd language so there might be some grammar or spelling mistakes.
To many "these tactics".

(skipable) Requirements of you as a player.
Spoiler


The mechs requirements for these tactics.
Spoiler

Edited by Spleenslitta, 13 October 2015 - 08:02 AM.


#2 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 06 April 2015 - 11:57 AM

How these tactics work?
Spoiler



An example of how these tactics can be pulled off on 3 different maps and everything.
Spoiler

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 12:41 PM.


#3 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:05 PM

I'll do another of these maps as an example. Alpine Peaks.
Spoiler

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 12:39 PM.


#4 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:20 PM

Next is the Terra Therma map. This is almost as difficult for me to deal with as Forest Colony.
Spoiler

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 02:07 PM.


#5 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:23 PM

(skip if you believe me) How is seperating from your teammates not certain death like it says in the meta tactics?
Spoiler


(Skippable for those who don't want to get close. Or who just know tricks like that already.)
Feints and tricks to make the enemy think you go one way when in reality you didn't.
Spoiler


(skipable)But what results can we expect from these tactics?
Spoiler

Did you read all that? If you did you have my sympathies. I spent around 12 hours to make this guide so i hope it's helpfull.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 07 April 2015 - 07:57 AM.


#6 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:43 PM

I'm reserving this post since i might do something nutty and decide to go into further analysis of all the other maps.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 12:43 PM.


#7 stealthraccoon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 1,497 posts
  • Locationnestled in a burlap sack, down in the root cellar

Posted 06 April 2015 - 09:06 PM

Wow, well done. I can tell you put a lot of time and effort into this, and your perspective is appreciated!

I do love piloting light mechs solely for the tactics you are outlining - meta isn't my game, but harassment and misdirection can be a whole lot of fun!

Again, thanks for your insight!

#8 Durant Carlyle

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,877 posts
  • LocationClose enough to poke you with a stick.

Posted 06 April 2015 - 09:53 PM

Nice. I too run lights the vast majority of the time. I have seven Locusts (no ECM), three Commandos (no ECM), three Mist Lynxes (no ECM), one Kit Fox (stripped), six Spiders (one ECM), one Adder (stripped), five Jenners, and seven Panthers (had to have one for each Faction paint job lol).

Speaking of non-meta, I set up all of my lights so that they are BattleTech legal (taking into account the doubled armor, of course). That means switching engines so that the rating is a multiple of the 'Mech tonnage. So I run 'Mechs that aren't as speedy as the min-maxed builds. I don't run the dual-ERLL or dual-PPC/ERPPC builds -- hell, none of my Panthers has even one PPC/ERPPC, let alone two.

#9 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:53 AM

View Poststealthraccoon, on 06 April 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

Wow, well done. I can tell you put a lot of time and effort into this, and your perspective is appreciated!

I do love piloting light mechs solely for the tactics you are outlining - meta isn't my game, but harassment and misdirection can be a whole lot of fun!

Again, thanks for your insight!

That's another thing i like about harassment and misdirection tactics as you so aptly named them.
It's fun. It demands that you use your brain.

Meta tactics feels like "Do this. Do that. No need to think much because the enemy and you know what you're supposed to do." after playing like that for awhile.
I've tried. Couldn't do it for long. The rushes of adrenaline are few when playing meta.

View PostDurant Carlyle, on 06 April 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Nice. I too run lights the vast majority of the time. I have seven Locusts (no ECM), three Commandos (no ECM), three Mist Lynxes (no ECM), one Kit Fox (stripped), six Spiders (one ECM), one Adder (stripped), five Jenners, and seven Panthers (had to have one for each Faction paint job lol).

Speaking of non-meta, I set up all of my lights so that they are BattleTech legal (taking into account the doubled armor, of course). That means switching engines so that the rating is a multiple of the 'Mech tonnage. So I run 'Mechs that aren't as speedy as the min-maxed builds. I don't run the dual-ERLL or dual-PPC/ERPPC builds -- hell, none of my Panthers has even one PPC/ERPPC, let alone two.

Wow. That's quite a collection. See you got Commando's. Started out with those when i started in MWO.
Still get nostalgic whenever i see the single Commando i do have in the garage.

Just remembered that i should have put "guide, light mech" in the tags.
Oh well....too late now. I'll add some minor stuff to the guide while i'm here.

#10 Durant Carlyle

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,877 posts
  • LocationClose enough to poke you with a stick.

Posted 07 April 2015 - 08:55 AM

I'm looking forward to the Arctic Cheetah. Initially I was afraid of what it would look like based on the TRO art, but they seem to have made it look a hell of a lot better. Have to wait on the final product to be sure, of course.

I've loved piloting lights since I got in the game in August 2012. Of course back then they were a bit more effective. My Founder Jenner still holds a special place in my heart.

I like playing the harasser, the dive-bomber, the back-stabber, and just generally mixing it up with distracted opponents. I've always hated playing peek-a-boo and I suck at it. If it looks like a match is going to devolve into a long, boring hiding session on both sides, I usually circle around to find a lone opponent and then charge in to have some close-combat fun until my 'Mech is blown out from under me.

#11 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 07 April 2015 - 01:10 PM

View PostDurant Carlyle, on 07 April 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

I'm looking forward to the Arctic Cheetah. Initially I was afraid of what it would look like based on the TRO art, but they seem to have made it look a hell of a lot better. Have to wait on the final product to be sure, of course.

I've loved piloting lights since I got in the game in August 2012. Of course back then they were a bit more effective. My Founder Jenner still holds a special place in my heart.

I like playing the harasser, the dive-bomber, the back-stabber, and just generally mixing it up with distracted opponents. I've always hated playing peek-a-boo and I suck at it. If it looks like a match is going to devolve into a long, boring hiding session on both sides, I usually circle around to find a lone opponent and then charge in to have some close-combat fun until my 'Mech is blown out from under me.

There are some fine light mechs coming in the future i'm sure. But i'm just dissapointed i won't get my Firebee.
It's like a Commando with JJ's who's on steroids while it's pumping iron like you wouldn't believe.

As for the peek-a-boo part. Yup me too.
Whenever i'm on Forest Colony i actually go around wishing everyone would get into a huge brawl so i can abandon that peeking stuff.
Fewer enemies mean more opportunities to flank after all.

I've played CW less than 10 times. I hated it from the very start. It's nothing more than slugging matches.
Can't flank at all because of dropships with reinforcements, gates and the cramped space we fight in when we get inside the gate.
Everybody peeks and do nothing more till they get past the gate even then it's almost the same thing.

#12 InspectorG

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Boombox
  • The Boombox
  • 4,457 posts
  • LocationCleveland, Ohio

Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:59 PM

Good stuff!

Anymore i tend to use my lights initially as fire support for Assualts in the opening of a match.
Then once battle lines(or blobs) formed, ill look for any of the following:

1. Flanking opportunities. If i can get a nice angle on an enemy that is engaged already, i get a free trade. If i can time their cooldown, i can usually get another trade after that.

2. Lone slow mechs, usually LRM boats. Giveaway weekend events bring these fools out. They usually have XL engines that make my job easier. Follow the trail of rain to the back of the map, these guys usually dont move much.

3. Easy trades - in Puglandia. Team drops i have to be more conservative. Wait till an enemy is already firing at someone. They usually wont shoot you at the same time. Just keep an eye out for his friends...
Also look for crazy angle shots ridgehump, cornerpeek, diagonally down over a ramp, under terrain, get creative.

Timing your trades.
Dont do the whole 'he shoots, then you, then he, then you....' thats gonna lead to lost armor.
2 peeks then relocate, 1 peek only if you think he is on to you or has friends.
You cannot afford to be predictable.

Steering a Whale.
If you get behind a slow assault in the rear or flank you need to separate him from his group.
How?
This wont work vs decent pilots...so it should work often.
Shoot the LEG nearest his team. Dont let him see you or your beam.
If you are short on time hit the R-ST nearest his team.

After looking around for you, he may run away from his team. Great!

Whale riding.
I used to do this in my Kitfox when i was playing for lols.
JJ up onto an assault and shoot down after you unlock your arms.
No arms or JJ, then dont try this.
Only thing that will stop you is his teammates or a low overhang.

BASIC RULES for light piloting
1. If its a fair fight, you messed up.
2. If they saw you, you messed up.
3. If you were the best target and its not late match, you messed up.

GL, and get used to dying.

#13 PaeuxP22

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Boombox
  • The Boombox
  • 77 posts

Posted 08 June 2015 - 11:34 PM

View PostInspectorG, on 07 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:


GL, and get used to dying.


This.

Lost track of the number of times I've been jogging along in a Locust and suddenly - Dead - St gone from a dual gauss jager you don't even have time to see on radar.

That being said I will forever maintain that when they go well lights are the most fun you can have. They are about more polarised than other mechs. Jump in a heavy and you can kinda guess what you'll score at the end. In a light I've had 1000 dmg matches and I've had 1 dmg matches.



#14 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,677 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 08 June 2015 - 11:48 PM

This is a great guide. As a long time light mech fanatic myself, I can vouch for these tactics.

EDIT: This thread deserves to be pinned.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 June 2015 - 11:49 PM.


#15 Alardus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 399 posts

Posted 12 June 2015 - 01:44 PM

Light and medium mechs should be fighting together vs other light or medium mechs, or fire supporting heavier mechs, imo. If you're a slow light or medium, the chassis is probably giving up speed for more armor or more bite, especially at range. I like the SRMmando. :wub:

Typically what happens is that any shots you fire from oblique or flanking angles will draw attention anyway, and since you're alone, you're likely to get swarmed by at least 2 lights.

Edited by Alardus, 12 June 2015 - 01:52 PM.


#16 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 12 June 2015 - 02:04 PM

View PostAlardus, on 12 June 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Light and medium mechs should be fighting together vs other light or medium mechs, or fire supporting heavier mechs, imo. If you're a slow light or medium, the chassis is probably giving up speed for more armor or more bite, especially at range. I like the SRMmando. :wub:

Typically what happens is that any shots you fire from oblique or flanking angles will draw attention anyway, and since you're alone, you're likely to get swarmed by at least 2 lights.

This is true to a certain extent just like i said in my original posts. But the results i showed in post #5 do not lie.
Further more i have improved since back when i made this guide.
Now i can do this in a 110 kph Vindicator and my Kit Fox is actually outperforming my Firestarters when i use these tactics despite the lower speed.
Kit Fox does averagly does 10% more damage than my Firestarters. I've played over 1K matches with both chassis so the stats are very accurate.
My Kit Fox has better KDR and it seems it's starting to pull ahead in the win/loss stat too.

It works but you need good situational awareness and even better instant decision making skills.
Please do not dismiss what you haven't tried. It's the same as saying you will never like the taste of apples even though you've never bitten into one before.

#17 Alardus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 399 posts

Posted 12 June 2015 - 02:25 PM

I'm not dismissing something you find works.

#18 Spleenslitta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,617 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 12 June 2015 - 02:44 PM

Oh....so that's Mailin. Been so long since i made this guide i'd entirelly forgotten about you. Sorry.

View PostAlardus, on 12 June 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

I'm not dismissing something you find works.

Ok. My missunderstanding then. It's this sentence i looked at....

Typically what happens is that any shots you fire from oblique or flanking angles will draw attention anyway, and since you're alone, you're likely to get swarmed by at least 2 lights.

In any case it's partially true. What's important to avoid this is the stuff in post 2# in the first spoiler button and the 2nd spoiler button in post 5# .
Fool the enemy into looking for you were you ain't. Make them think you go in one direction but go somewhere completly different is very common.

It's not only about the lines of sight the enemy has to you, but also each other. I've refined this part more since i made this guide so it's not included in the guide.
If enemy nr. 2-3-4 do not see the shot that hits enemy nr.1 their response will be slow even if they are very activly communicating through mics.
If they do not communicate at all like PuG's only the enemy nr.1 will know of your presence and since this is about getting into cover after 1-2 shots he is unlikely to be able to respond at all before your behind cover.

Shoot but do not get shoot in return and relocate often and far. This tends to keep you out of the clutches of light mechs...of course it doesn't always succeed.

Whoops....got work tomorrow. Gotta go sleep. It's far past midnight here. But after that i got 8 days of short vacation.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 12 June 2015 - 02:46 PM.


#19 ProfessorD

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 220 posts

Posted 12 June 2015 - 05:57 PM

So, I'm reading this trying to figure out what the "non-meta" part is, and taking notes as I go.

On pilot skill: "good situational awareness, instant decision making, patience, quick aiming"
Meta.

On planning: "If you know what you will do during the next 15 seconds of a match using these tactics you're doing it wrong!"
Check, not meta.
I'm not sure what this means yet, though.

On speed: "120kph as a barebones minimum...i prefer about 140 kph or above"
Meta.

On the usefulness of speed: "greater speed means better damage ... speed ... keeps you alive"
This is just plain true, not really meta or non-meta.

On JJ: "Jump Jets is a big advantage"
Meta.

On radar deprivation: "use cover with a radar deprivation module"
Meta.

Build example: "FS 9S [sic]: 280XL engine, 6 points away from full armor, endo, ferro, JJ's, ... Radar deprivation and Seismic sensor."
Meta so far,

The weapon set from the build example: "... 3 SL, 2ML and ER LL. ..."
Check, not meta. Specifically, this is non-meta of the "have a weapon for every possible engagement range" variety.

On engagement technique with that weapon set: "i mostly don't use the ER PPC/ ER LL when i get close unless it's on a cold map."
See, here, we start running into issues with the community's colloquial definition of "meta". Given that we must use the weapon set described above, this is an optimal engagement technique, because the long range weapons do less damage per unit heat than short range weapons. So, once we get past the weapon set, this becomes a "meta" technique.
I think the collective intelligence of the community and the precision of our discussions would improve a lot if we discussed optimization instead of "the meta". "the meta" is just optimization of builds and combat techniques under a certain set of assumptions and constraints.

On broader engagement technique: "Having a mech capable of hitting from any range not only helps you to better defend yourself if you run into someone, but also strangely helps you avoid damage through raising your unpredictability."
Check, not meta.
Also wrong, though. When an enemy FS9-A finds you in the FS9-S you described above, you're going to lose badly.

On trading fire: "hitting the enemy without getting hit back"
Meta. Totally meta.

On separation from the team: "When should you seperate yourself from the team? Either at the very start if you're very aware of which lines most players run along to get from one place to another. - or - When the two teams have clashed and you know somewhat where the majority of the enemy is located."
Meta. Why wouldn't it be? If you get this right, it's a perfectly smart way to play your fast lights.

On exposure: "stay out of their line of sight everytime you relocate"
Meta.

I appreciate this post a lot; it's a great read for a new light pilot that will be playing a peek-and-poke style in the solo queue. Describing it all as being non-meta and "get rid of any habits you might have from meta tactics" represents an incorrectly narrow view of how light mech "meta" works, though. The techniques in this thread are mostly very different from the "meta" techniques for the SPL FS9-A, but this post is actually a great lesson on how to use the recently very meta large laser RVN-2X effectively.

Certainly, you shouldn't use optimal Raven tactics in a Firestarter. That would be non-meta, because it would just suck. Using optimal tactics in an optimal large laser Raven build, though? Totally meta, and largely consistent with the tactics described in this post.

Edited by ProfessorD, 12 June 2015 - 05:59 PM.


#20 Alardus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 399 posts

Posted 12 June 2015 - 06:59 PM

I don't know if you can really call good tactics meta. Attacking from the opposite side of which the enemy's gun barrels are pointed is a tactic that is 100% legitimate in every game.

I think meta for OP means more along the lines of not having to be an ML spam bot going 160 kph. On the other hand, slow lights are completely anti-meta, and he's not encouraging the smart use of them. I would encourage the smart use of them (not bashing op at all, hes got valid points). They have the drawbacks of being light in terms of lower firepower and armor that you would expect. They're not going to slugfest directly for being slower, but they're not going to flank, either. They're going to harass or supplement. I think its totally okay to choose slower lights or mediums, provided you have an understanding of good tactics to employ them well.

Edited by Alardus, 13 June 2015 - 12:07 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users