29 replies to this topic

[NecessaryWeevil]

People have recommended that if I buy a D-DC, I should put a big engine in it. In your opinion, what constitutes a 'fast' Atlas?

[SethAbercromby]

An STD325 is probably the most viable Engine for a 'fast' atlas, as the tonnage/speed investment becomes arguably wasteful from that point on. If you go XL, you can push for a 375. Some guy I know got the full package and double-downed on a XL400, but that is for when you know what you're doing.

For starters, I'd say to go with the 325 and build the 'Mech from there. If you are willing to go faster but risk losing your 'Mech to an ST destruction the XL375 will get you notably more speed for less tonnage.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 06 April 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[process]

300 is the bare minimum for my Atlases. 325 is probably the sweet spot, but I prefer a little extra speed: AS7-D-DC

[Voivode]

I'd say a "fast" Atlas exceeds 60KPH. In most instances, the fast Atlas is built to brawl and the extra speed becomes essential. Slower Atlas builds tend to be long range in nature. Personally, given the low slung arms and overall size/shape of an Atlas, I see it as a brawler by nature and have built all of mine to exceed 60KPH.

[DONTOR]

ya I really like the 340 standard, puts you right at 60KPH, or if you really want to gun boat it take the 325. I would avoid anything lower than a 325 because then you cant outpace a DW and I think that is pretty important.

[Averen]

The Atlas AH is basically perfected with a STD350. Uses the full 4xASRM6+AC20 hardpoints and has some forgettable ML.

[Skarlock]

If you want to be significantly faster in an Atlas, you really have to put in an XL engine, but I would not recommend putting an XL in an Atlas.

The XL does a lot of things that really hurt the Atlas. You lose the ability to go with an AC/20 in the side torso. Your replacement options are putting a gauss rifle in it, but with an IS xl engine that is a dangerous recipe as that gauss can easily explode and take out the side torso it's mounted in, killing you. So you have to now make due with an AC/10 which is almost as heavy for half the damage, or worse realistically. You can't even do two UAC/5s as they will no longer fit.

You also can no longer mount 3 SRM6+Artemis in the other side torso, and can't even do 3 SRM 6+Artemis and ECM in a DDC. This isn't as bad as losing your AC/20 if you just downgrade to SRM 4s, but it still does considerably lower your alpha power yet again.

An XL does give you faster torso twisting which will increase your lifespan, but you're also much more vulnerable from behind. Because the Atlas is a more symmetrical mech using weapons in both sides, when you lose half your atlas you are still very similar (in terms of pure damage/dps) about the same as a griffin if you retain your SRMs, or a hunchback if you retain your AC/20 torso. In many cases, killing half your mech reduces you to 50 or 55 ton mech firepower, which is still very considerable and can contribute quite a bit to the fight if you are close enough to use those guns.

If you absolutely must have a fast assault, go with a Gargoyle. It isn't a very good mech, but it if you go with the "mangoyle" build you can at least have decent firepower, lower tonnage assault class armor, and go 90 kph with speed tweak. The Gargoyle is a great example of exactly why fast assaults aren't very ideal. The sacrifices in tonnage you have to make to achieve that speed means you have very little left for guns, ammo, and heat sinks. At least with the Gargoyle though, you will actually have a significantly faster assault, and clan tech gives you much more firepower for the few tons you can actually dedicate to it.

A fairly typical "mangoyle" build below. Note you really need to use the GAR-C arm on a GAR-D chassis, otherwise you don't have the energy hardpoints to do the build, and you will have to use bigger energy weapons, which are less tonnage efficient for your damage. Also note the thing has two big weaknesses, namely middling range, and it runs extremely hot. You really *can't* get around these weaknesses in what most people would truly consider a fast assault. This is simply because the bigger the engine, the more weight it costs at a completely non-linear cost, even with an XL.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e2714acbb1065e5

An even better solution would be a Timber Wolf. At 75 tons it's only 5 tons shy of being an assault itself, jump capable depending on the omnipods you take, and has a lot more versatility than the gargoyle, capable of taking 27.5 tons of gear very comfortably, compared to the gargoyle's paltry 20. If you are an IS purist and don't want to go clan, your choices are a lot harder and a lot weaker. You may look into the Victor, Battle Master, or perhaps the Zeus, but those mechs are very unforgiving of newer pilots who XL them, though others have had decent success with running an XL.

Edited by Skarlock, 06 April 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Eaerie]

a stalker is a good mech to work with or If you can downgrade to a heavy and get a thunderbolt

[Telmasa]

I've seen a couple guys try a STD350 engine...by using two ML, the AC/20, and a bunch of SRM6s.

Personally I think that's a very light load for a 100 ton mech; I'd stick with the 325 myself...though the super-secret build I have right now uses the 300.

[Bows3r]

If you want an effective Brawling Atlas (the only effective way to go with an Atlas), you can use either a STD 350 or a STD 360.

The S can have 4 SRM-4/A, AC/20, and 2 CT mounted backup ML's with the STD 350. The D-DC can have 3 SRM6/A and an AC/20 with ECM, plenty of ammo/heatsinks, and a STD 360.

That's plenty enough firepower for a 100 ton 'mech and anyone who say elsewise is kidding themselves.

[John80sk]

Generally speaking, all viable Atlas (and note I am using the term viable very loosely) run STD 350+. A STD 335 would probably be the absolute minimum before you start to be completely useless.

[Kardax]

325 is good enough for DDC.

[Mad Ox]

Went with 325 on mine found it to be a good mix after speed tweak. My load out was as follows.

AS7-D-DC with 325

Gives a good mix of hard hitting but still able to move a bit. not a light but helps.

LRM-10 allows me to tag enemy at start of battle for assists, but still stay hidden lending ECM to group and staying out of direct fire.

AC20 + 2 SRM6 makes for a very nasty wallop. LL makes for a little stand off range but range is not what Atlas is about.

Edited by Mad Ox, 08 April 2015 - 07:25 AM.

[Cabusha]

Mad Ox, on 08 April 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Went with 325 on mine found it to be a good mix after speed tweak. My load out was as follows.

AS7-D-DC with 325

Gives a good mix of hard hitting but still able to move a bit. not a light but helps.

LRM-10 allows me to tag enemy at start of battle for assists, but still stay hidden lending ECM to group and staying out of direct fire.

AC20 + 2 SRM6 makes for a very nasty wallop. LL makes for a little stand off range but range is not what Atlas is about.

Word of advice, move the ammo out of the CT and RT. Put in in the RA and LA. Nobody shoots the arms on Atlas. The Torsos though? They pop early and often. Leaving ammo there is just asking for it.

[Lily from animove]

fast? or "not so slow"?

there are no fast atlas except from Steiner point of view

but generally, the more of speed is not that much benefitting for the firepower loss you will get.
And you should not really go XL.

stick with the engine it comes if you have it new and not a spare engine, because big XL's cost big money.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 April 2015 - 11:31 PM.

[Mad Ox]

Cabusha, on 23 April 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

Word of advice, move the ammo out of the CT and RT. Put in in the RA and LA. Nobody shoots the arms on Atlas. The Torsos though? They pop early and often. Leaving ammo there is just asking for it.

Hmm have to give it a try.

[FlipOver]

Mad Ox, on 08 April 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Went with 325 on mine found it to be a good mix after speed tweak. My load out was as follows.

AS7-D-DC with 325

Gives a good mix of hard hitting but still able to move a bit. not a light but helps.

LRM-10 allows me to tag enemy at start of battle for assists, but still stay hidden lending ECM to group and staying out of direct fire.

AC20 + 2 SRM6 makes for a very nasty wallop. LL makes for a little stand off range but range is not what Atlas is about.

A few things came to mind when I saw your build:

1-You need artemis to pack a real punch with SRM6
2-That build also needs to be over the 30% Cooling Efficiency as you will notice sooner or later.
3-Also, as a personal note, adding the LRMs on an Atlas is almost like telling your team "Hey, I'm going to do my part from the distance first, so if you need ECM coverage, either bring your own or stick with me far far away"
3.1-If I had that build on my DDC, I think I'd never be allowed to use it on unit drops
4-Too few LRM ammo and SRM ammo also


You use that one and see how it goes along the way (best way to determine how good a build really is to your game-play style is to use it never less than 50 times to have a general idea).

[Tahribator]

I want to re-emphasize that if you want to run brawly builds, STD350 is your minimum engine. Smaller engines limit the responsiveness of this 'Mech, especially the torso twist speed, which is critical for an assault brawler.

[Mad Ox]

FlipOver, on 24 April 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

A few things came to mind when I saw your build:

1-You need artemis to pack a real punch with SRM6
2-That build also needs to be over the 30% Cooling Efficiency as you will notice sooner or later.
3-Also, as a personal note, adding the LRMs on an Atlas is almost like telling your team "Hey, I'm going to do my part from the distance first, so if you need ECM coverage, either bring your own or stick with me far far away"
3.1-If I had that build on my DDC, I think I'd never be allowed to use it on unit drops
4-Too few LRM ammo and SRM ammo also


You use that one and see how it goes along the way (best way to determine how good a build really is to your game-play style is to use it never less than 50 times to have a general idea).

1 - Artemis helps but I get in close enough that have not seen a difference 1 way or the other.
2 - When up close I use SRM's and AC. At range LL and LRM so cooling isn't that much of an issue. It looks bad on Smufy cuz Smurf just assumes you Alpha everything. Which i wouldn't recommend LOL
3 - LRM is to give me something to do at start of battle. I tend to get impatient waiting for things to settle out. Sort of a fidget toy for me to keep myself entertained. Otherwise I start moving in right away and well thats a great way to walk into a large chunk of the enemy team and die hideously as each trigger happy nuts unloads on you. Also since they home in on target find them to be very handy against the boom and zoom lights. To many times used them to bring down that stupid enemy trying to peek a boom using there speed to stay away from me... unlike Jason in Friday the 13th I cant expect them to trip as I trudge along so enjoy some LRM's.
3.. part 2 - Not something i would use in a dedicated Unit setup but for PUB which is majority of what i do and knowing I cant count on anyone else it works for me.
4 - 36 reloads of LRM's found to be a very nice spot for how I play its an extra weapon not main idea, pretty much my rule of thumb is 1 ton LRM ammo per 5 missiles, so 2 tons for Lrm 10. 2 tons for SRM's is a touch low but as I am very careful about when i use them mostly face smashing distance, works out decently for me.

Its the build i ended up settling on and finished Mastery with so had a good amount of games to vet it out. Works for me.

[Cloora]

The Boar's Head comes with a 400XL and with speed tweak is 71 kph. It is kinda fun to run around in one but more for the LOLz as I would die way to often to ST losses.

Edited by Cloora, 24 April 2015 - 10:16 AM.