69 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Attacking your tactics is, once again, not attacking you - though accusing me of projection is amazingly ironic. Despite your unverifiable claim of past academic achievement in introductory coursework, you are still refusing to do what is required of you by the rules of polite discourse - and now you're threatening to end an argument you've already lost. I've been addressing the issue, and you keep attempting to shift the burden of proof onto me with increasing annoyance. You might want to approach the University of Louisiana for additional study.

Nevertheless, so be it - since you refuse to correct your misbehavior there is indeed no point in continuing to discuss this with you, as you yourself realize. Good day.

[Hotthedd]

Void Angel, on 10 April 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Attacking your tactics is, once again, not attacking you - though accusing me of projection is amazingly ironic. Despite your unverifiable claim of past academic achievement in introductory coursework, you are still refusing to do what is required of you by the rules of polite discourse - and now you're threatening to end an argument you've already lost. I've been addressing the issue, and you keep attempting to shift the burden of proof onto me with increasing annoyance. You might want to approach the University of Louisiana for additional study.

Nevertheless, so be it - since you refuse to correct your misbehavior there is indeed no point in continuing to discuss this with you, as you yourself realize. Good day.

LSU.
U of L was your final insult

[Kelenas]

Yes, because what this game needs is more things that makes it more complicated to bring new players into the game. "my weapons don't fire where I aim them" is not a good way to get more players to play your game.

[Andi Nagasia]

Kelenas, on 10 April 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yes, because what this game needs is more things that makes it more complicated to bring new players into the game. "my weapons don't fire where I aim them" is not a good way to get more players to play your game.

i just realized we wouldnt be having this conversation if Armlocks where never created, lols

[Sarevos]

Kelenas, on 10 April 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yes, because what this game needs is more things that makes it more complicated to bring new players into the game. "my weapons don't fire where I aim them" is not a good way to get more players to play your game.

You mean like every one of the FPS games out there?
sniper rifles in all but halo games require you adjust for drop and distance meaning you aim away from your target.

Grenade launchers in every game require you to judge distance and arc of the projectile and rpgs require you to lead your target.

All weapons have significant recoil and spread at a distance...

what are you talking about?

even weapons that lock require you to somewhat match speed and heading so they will hit target like any Air Fighter game.

You may not realize these exist because they arent issues in any other game lol.

the reticule tends to act as a suggestion for where your weapons will hit

also few other games let you fire multiple weapon systems at once anyone new would not even notice because they would assume each weapon group would have to be selected individually if they came from any other game

Edited by Sarevos, 11 April 2015 - 08:31 AM.

[Sarevos]

Do the people arguing against hotthedd pardon me Andi Nagasia realize that ALL other games have forced inaccuracy? or are they thinking its bad practice in general?

Edited by Sarevos, 11 April 2015 - 08:40 AM.

[Stealth Fox]

Sarevos, on 11 April 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Do the people arguing against hotthedd pardon me Andi Nagasia realize that ALL other games have forced inaccuracy? or are they thinking its bad practice in general?

WHAT? Nooo. My Shotgun in Half Life 2 is DEAD accurate.. I can fire at things 300 meters away and STILL hit stuff...




Sure I changed it to fire 85 pellets instead of 7 using console commands, but ..that's besides the point.

[990Dreams]

Alternate: Learn to survive without having to change game mechanics.

[Andi Nagasia]

Sarevos, on 11 April 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Do the people arguing against hotthedd pardon me Andi Nagasia realize that ALL other games have forced inaccuracy? or are they thinking its bad practice in general?

the idea is to make it feel different than it is now, for the hope of a better MWO,
not necessarily to stop but lesson PinPoint Alphas, is this the best solution, probably not,
but i feel it can be easily implemented and give just a slight inaccuracy to your weapons,

=Remember=
another way to look at it, real life at a shooting range,
distance to Target,.......Where your Aiming,.......Distance off Target%,...
10feet,...............................30feet past,.....................3Inches,................
20feet,...............................60feet past,.....................3Inches,................
30feet,...............................90feet past,.....................3Inches,................
so the Distance off would be the same at every range,

DavidHurricane, on 11 April 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

Alternate: Learn to survive without having to change game mechanics,

good Advice, but not really helping, thanks though,

[Telmasa]

Sarevos, on 11 April 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Do the people arguing against hotthedd pardon me Andi Nagasia realize that ALL other games have forced inaccuracy? or are they thinking its bad practice in general?

It's bad practice in general. Games with forced inaccuracy cause cancer.

If weapons in this game are still accurate and precise, just not all hitting the same exact pinpoint location, then I'm fine with that change.

Edited by Telmasa, 11 April 2015 - 01:58 PM.

[Leone]

But... But my mechs come with Targeting Computers. That's what they're there for.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

[Sarevos]

Telmasa, on 11 April 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

It's bad practice in general. Games with forced inaccuracy cause cancer.

If weapons in this game are still accurate and precise, just not all hitting the same exact pinpoint location, then I'm fine with that change.

So all games cause cancer? because all games have that... recoil... drift... spread kind of a staple of any game in which guns are involved that arent light-gun shooters or shoot'em ups...

if you notice we dont have recoil spread or reload (reload in mwo is more akin to ROF) Firing our weapons is probably one of the simplest systems ive seen.

also

"If weapons in this game are still accurate and precise, just not all hitting the same exact pinpoint location, then I'm fine with that change."

Im really not sure what youre looking for in any game they make you fire a single system at a time no matter how ridiculous the combat with the exception of Eve and Elite series (but they have their own method of fixing by adding even more forced inaccuracy)

here you can shoot them all at once which results in the issue of pinpoint damage I cant imagine how people are raging about this when its a part of almost every other game

Edited by Sarevos, 12 April 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[Sarevos]

Leone, on 12 April 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

But... But my mechs come with Targeting Computers. That's what they're there for.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

Yea but if i am not mistaken targeting computers in btech dont work like that... they give you a visual display of where to fire to hit a targeted location much like those for leading shots in a Fighter. If youre saying the tech is advanced enough and functions well enough (technomagic that makes these machines possible at all aside lol) to put fire in a specific point then it would stand to reason why are humans even piloting these things at all? lol

[Kelenas]

Sarevos, on 12 April 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Yea but if i am not mistaken targeting computers in btech dont work like that... they give you a visual display of where to fire to hit a targeted location much like those for leading shots in a Fighter. If youre saying the tech is advanced enough and functions well enough (technomagic that makes these machines possible at all aside lol) to put fire in a specific point then it would stand to reason why are humans even piloting these things at all? lol

A computer calculating the range between you and your target and minutely adjusting your weapons to help you hit it is technomagic? I thought it was called reality.

[Sarevos]

Kelenas, on 12 April 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

A computer calculating the range between you and your target and minutely adjusting your weapons to help you hit it is technomagic? I thought it was called reality.

I was referring to the fact that bipedal walkers that work contain fusion reactors and weigh less than 100 tons as technomagic

Sarevos, on 12 April 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

(technomagic that makes these machines possible at all aside lol)

Also no existing weapon adjusts for you unless it is being guided in by a target designator or is self guided (such as missles but no one is arguing against missile technology the fact that it can track a target is the point of the weapon system) or it is autonomous what are you talking about? anything that you fire only gives you an adjustment reading that you manually adjust to....

Such as this weapon

Edited by Sarevos, 12 April 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Serpentbane]

The whole point with assaults and larger mechs are a **** load of weaponry and loads of armor. Solution, just do not be in front of it. This is not, or should not, be rock scissors paper, lights are not the assaults enemy. In my opinion, assaults should be able to thread every pieces of metal away from any spider with one blow. Lights have other roles, like scouting, targeting, and running hit'n runs from behind, perhaps doing some finishing off when larger mechs are heavily damaged. They should also hunt down enemy spotters etc. Although I do realize PGI has made a small arena shooter rather than a larger scale mech sim.

This is from the description of the King Crab.
“Its primary weapons, super-heavy autocannons mounted in its arms, can strip the armor off of any 'Mech in a few bursts” and “The only reliable way to destroy a King Crab is with overwhelming numbers of heavy and assault 'Mechs, and casualties will be suffered in the attempt.”

PGI should have made the game bigger, maps larger, made use of roles, implemented reloads and redeployments in all games, like CW. But instead they nerf and quirk to make lights more powerfull than assaults…

[Nightmare1]

Yep, convergence itself is not the problem; bad tactics employed by hasty pilots are the problem.

Frankly, I strongly believe convergence will break this game if it is ever implemented.

[Telmasa]

Sarevos, on 12 April 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

So all games cause cancer? because all games have that... recoil... drift... spread kind of a staple of any game in which guns are involved that arent light-gun shooters or shoot'em ups...

Quantity does not make quality.
If RNG determined the fate of what happens in your game, then as a competitive mech shooter, that causes cancer.

RNG has its place in monopoly and poker. Not Mech combat.

Quote

here you can shoot them all at once which results in the issue of pinpoint damage I cant imagine how people are raging about this when its a part of almost every other game

Because this isn't supposed to be like every other game.

Nightmare1, on 13 April 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Yep, convergence itself is not the problem; bad tactics employed by hasty pilots are the problem.

Frankly, I strongly believe convergence will break this game if it is ever implemented.

Agreed - it would have to come hand in hand with other changes, like reliable hit registration, undoing the quirkening (and adopting a performance-by-tonnage approach), and so on.

[Nightmare1]

Telmasa, on 13 April 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Agreed - it would have to come hand in hand with other changes, like reliable hit registration, undoing the quirkening (and adopting a performance-by-tonnage approach), and so on.

*Grin* A topic we agree on! Just teasing Telmasa!

Seriously though, that's one thing that MWO has a bad track record of doing (Whether IGP or PGI). Rather than fix major issues by directly addressing them, fixes are attempted via proxy which just leads to more problems down the road. Case in point, PPCs are underpowered because of their nerfs, so certain chassis get quirked crazily to bring the system back into the game. People are frustrated about TTK, so weapons are nerfed. People become frustrated over weapon nerfs, so Mechs are quirked. It's a never-ending cycle of "Chase the Rabbit" nerfing and buffing.

Sometimes I think the best thing would be a reset back to the way things were in Closed Beta. Then start balancing fresh from there with a clean slate. I dunno...

[Helaton]

I'll toss out a variation,

What about convergence going to the pooper after the weapon's effective range.

So mechs that run ERLL and ML's, would have 2 different max ranges of convergence. But up to that max range, convergence works as intended.

CERLL: 740m (Convergence up to 740m without penalty)
CERML: 440m (Convergence up to 440m without penalty)

If you are using the weapons within their range, all is good in the hood?

Edit: Just want to add this convergence will primarily affect mixed weapon alphas. Same weapon alphas will work the same up to their max range.

Edited by Helaton, 13 April 2015 - 10:24 AM.