69 replies to this topic

[Shae Starfyre]

I am on the get-rid-of-arm-lock band wagon.

[Helaton]

I think we just need to take a look at the way Torso mounted weapons converge. Angle of convergence on the torso should be very small as a balancing. Perhaps less than 5% variance in angle they can attack.

Arms (with actuators) should converge reasonable well on a target as long as it is within X degrees based on the arm.

Mech size is a very big variable as small mechs with tight/closer hardpoints will have a tighter convergence.

Let's use a medium laser as example. Blue areas before the blue line show prime full damage convergence area.

Spoiler

So I think by giving tighter torso and arm actuator, convergence could be less of an issue. People who want convergence flexibility should focus most weapons in the arms.

[Nightmare1]

This remains a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. It also remains a muddled one. Convergence based on movement kills Lights. Convergence based on size kills wide Mechs. Convergence based on long distance kills mid to long-range builds. Convergence based on close proximity kills short range builds. Convergence based on heat kills energy builds. Convergence based on the number of weapons equipped kills Assaults. Convergence based on the number of weapons fired kills Alphas. With as many and diverse a number of Mechs and fighting styles as there are in MWO, there is no way to develop a reasonably balanced convergence that will not break the game.

Of course, the end result of all convergence ideas is a spike in lock-on weaponry. In short, once convergence is introduced, we will see the use of LRMs and Streaks rise again in dramatic fashion. Personally speaking, I prefer pinpoint to LRM and CSSRM spam and fully unbalanced gameplay.

[Helaton]

Wide mechs are penalized at very close ranges, but isn't that how it should be since mode wide mechs keep their power weapons in the wider extremities?

I'm seeing that convergence on wide mechs would be an issue at 120/150m and less. Which for some wide mechs would be more beneficial to move to medium-range with their loadouts, instead of less than 360 brawler range, leaving tighter hard point configurations for close in brawlers. (Like an Atlas CT, RT, RA convergence), while has missiles in the LT. Asymmetric loadouts like the Atlas probably favor it. A Crab being symmetric and wide might prefer to up the range to 360-540.

Its just a difference of opinion but hopefully we won't be stuck in the current state we have been even if it means we end up with a short stint in LRMs or Streaks.

[DailyFrankPeter]

If the problem is High Pinpoint Alphas, then there already is a solution in the form of ghost heat. This could just be a matter of tweaking.

Otherwise we may go as absurd as saying: what about team target-firing a component, huh? OP! How do we fix this?

Convergence to me is mostly a way of adding depth to the game.

[Hotthedd]

DailyFrankPeter, on 07 November 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

If the problem is High Pinpoint Alphas, then there already is a solution in the form of ghost heat. This could just be a matter of tweaking.

Otherwise we may go as absurd as saying: what about team target-firing a component, huh? OP! How do we fix this?

Convergence to me is mostly a way of adding depth to the game.

Yet we have ghost heat AND high damage pinpoint precise alpha strikes still exist, hmmm.

Teams focusing a target has not been called a problem, however having maps/modes/objectives that disincentivize the death ball would be a good idea.

[Andi Nagasia]

Hotthedd, on 08 November 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

Yet we have ghost heat AND high damage pinpoint precise alpha strikes still exist, hmmm.

Teams focusing a target has not been called a problem, however having maps/modes/objectives that disincentivize the death ball would be a good idea.

its not about a Full Team Focusing being a Problem,
its having Single Shot Mechs, that can Run Full Speed & Shoot,
Hitting one Spot of a Mech wail Moving Full Speed 81Kph,

[Nightmare1]

Andi Nagasia, on 09 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

its not about a Full Team Focusing being a Problem,
its having Single Shot Mechs, that can Run Full Speed & Shoot,
Hitting one Spot of a Mech wail Moving Full Speed 81Kph,

Except that it is about team-firing, because most teams aren't moving at 81 kph while shooting. They are standing still in a firing line (firing from rest), or moving slowly (~40 - 50 kph) with their Assault Mechs during a push.

Two things wrong with convergence mechanics in general:

1) It breaks the game's hit-reg even worse (One of the reasons why it was removed and why I hope it's never reintroduced).

2) It doesn't do a lot to extend TTK since you still have an overwhelming amount of firepowering being concentrated on you. Even if half the shots miss, enough are still going to hit you that you'll die without any noticeable change in TTK. If a Mech has a 100 HP (Armor and Structure for simplicity) and there's 300 points of incoming damage, it doesn't matter if 200 points miss; the aggregate is still enough to insta-kill it. That's focus firing for you.

Now, one thing that would work better, I think, would be to maintain our current insta-convergence, but only enable it if you are locked onto that Mech. That would allow for the introduction of InfoTech as well as reduce the amount of incoming team fire since Mechs will lock-onto you at varying speeds. If you aren't locked, and don't have convergence, then your weapons fire straight forward if they are torso mounted, or at the reticule if they are arm mounted. It shouldn't affect hit-reg either.

[N F X]

nice idea, but then lights would be completly useless

[Hotthedd]

Andi Nagasia, on 09 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

its not about a Full Team Focusing being a Problem,
its having Single Shot Mechs, that can Run Full Speed & Shoot,
Hitting one Spot of a Mech wail Moving Full Speed 81Kph,

Yeah, that is what I was saying. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

N F X, on 10 February 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

nice idea, but then lights would be completly useless

How does making it harder for a 35 ton 'mech to place outrageously high alphas from boating SPLs on to a single pixel make them "useless"?
Perhaps lights are not really meant to be able to do that, and have other roles?