46 replies to this topic

[Lolpingu]

So, today one of the most infuriating things have happened, and one of the reasons why the Dire Wolf in my hangar is usually nothing more than a 100-ton paperweight, because I rarely drive it.

My lance, consisting of a DW (me), a Gargoyle, a Stalker and a Warhawk, spawned in the landing pad, on River City night.

In chat, someone wrote "get out of B4 asap", and in a move that surprised no one ever, my whole lance was gone, heading towards the bridge. I did what I could to get away, but 48kph won't get you very far, especially when 2 lances are all focusing fire on you - speaking of which...

No more than 5 seconds after that happened, I was swarmed by 2 heavy/medium lances and died shortly after while trying to get away.

So, to sum it up, my death that game was unavoidable - meaning that, no matter how skilled I may or may not have been at MWO, I would have died regardless. Now, before you say "you could have powered down" - while I didn't try it in this particular match, I tried it before in similar situations (of which there were many) and, well, a Dire Wolf is still a Dire Wolf, and everybody saw me regardless.

So what's the problem here?

Assault lances can spawn on the edges. Not only does this not account for the fact that PUG players could generally care less about you being left behind and overwhelmed by fast enemy mechs, it also doesn't account for mechs like the DW, which can usually do 48kph at most, 53 if mastered, which is still slow by any standards.

This means that if the team isn't heading your way, you're going to have to head the team's way, meaning that you have to catch up to 60+kph mechs in a 48kph mech.

It also means that if there are light mechs on the team set on exploiting the situation, you're pretty boned. Even if you somehow manage to kill a light mech that's taking advantage of your newfound solitude (which I have - and I have to admit, killing light mechs with gauss rifles never gets old), the time you spend killing it is enough time for a few more lights/mediums to get to you, and, well, there's only so much a DW can do.

The fix for this problem is simple - make the assault lance always spawn in the middle, to eliminate situations where you die an unavoidable death seconds into the match.

Thank you.

Edited by Lolpingu, 05 April 2015 - 05:55 AM.

[Hotthedd]

No.

If you think that game play is stale NOW, just imagine if everyone knew which lance was the assault lance at the beginning of the match.

If the Assault lance spawns in a bad place, they need to leave TOGETHER, not every mech for himself.
The closest lance needs to cover their retreat.

It requires teamwork, and sometimes you win the Pug lottery, and sometimes you lose.
But I never assume everyone knows what is going on. If I'm in your situation (River City, left flank spawn) I will use VOIP or text to give some early orders (and hope the team listens).

[Strykewolf]

Sounds more like your teammates abandoned you. If the lance had stayed together and fought they're way out, together...you would have faired better and, become the focal point of the battle that the other two lances could have used to your entire teams advantage.

[Lolpingu]

Hotthedd, on 05 April 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

No.

If you think that game play is stale NOW, just imagine if everyone knew which lance was the assault lance at the beginning of the match.

If the Assault lance spawns in a bad place, they need to leave TOGETHER, not every mech for himself.
The closest lance needs to cover their retreat.

It requires teamwork, and sometimes you win the Pug lottery, and sometimes you lose.
But I never assume everyone knows what is going on. If I'm in your situation (River City, left flank spawn) I will use VOIP or text to give some early orders (and hope the team listens).

First, I don't think the game is stale - that's just a random assumption you've made about me.

Second, it's not that the teams spawn breathing down eachother's necks - the fact that you know where the assaults spawn doesn't mean that you know where you're actually going to meet the assaults, and even if you did, I don't see how that makes the game stale, as predicting the enemy's position isn't the sole deciding factor of battles.

Third, you're making it sound as if your life hanging solely on the whims of your PUG, even in the first seconds of the match, is an acceptable situation, which it obviously isn't.
That's the situation, we deal with it, but we shouldn't deal with it, because a situation where, despite your best efforts, you die seconds into the match because you got abandoned and then rushed, is completely unfair.

Fourth, you're assuming that I don't try to politely ask my team to not leave me behind at the beginning of every match I play in a DW, although it's kind of my fault, since I didn't mention that in the OP. My bad.

Strykewolf, on 05 April 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

Sounds more like your teammates abandoned you. If the lance had stayed together and fought they're way out, together...you would have faired better and, become the focal point of the battle that the other two lances could have used to your entire teams advantage.

That's right. IF the lance had stayed together, which is a scenario that you can't afford to take for given, and also a situation on which your survival at the start of the match shouldn't depend. Now, if I had spawned in the middle, I could have quickly joined one of the adjecent lances and would have had a chance to actually put up a fight, which is usually what happens when I spawn in the middle in my DW. The fact that this isn't always the case boggles my mind.

Also, as I said before, I got rushed by 2 medium/heavy lances - that's about 8 full-health mechs, meaning that even if my lance DID try to cover my back, we'd still die because the rest of the team raced ahead.

Edited by Lolpingu, 05 April 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Lolpingu, on 05 April 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

First, I don't think the game is stale - that's just a random assumption you've made about me.

Second, it's not that the teams spawn breathing down eachother's necks - the fact that you know where the assaults spawn doesn't mean that you know where you're actually going to meet the assaults, and even if you did, I don't see how that makes the game stale, as predicting the enemy's position isn't the sole deciding factor of battles.

Third, you're making it sound as if your life hanging solely on the whims of your PUG, even in the first seconds of the match, is an acceptable situation, which it obviously isn't.
That's the situation, we deal with it, but we shouldn't deal with it, because a situation where, despite your best efforts, you die seconds into the match because you got abandoned and then rushed, is completely unfair.

Fourth, you're assuming that I don't try to politely ask my team to not leave me behind at the beginning of every match I play in a DW, although it's kind of my fault, since I didn't mention that in the OP. My bad.

Okay, None of that was aimed at you personally.

I didn't accuse you of thinking the game is stale. It was a generic "you". Most people feel like the game is stale and predictable.

As far as the rest, I was not speaking about your mistakes, and didn't mean to imply you made any mistakes. You simply lost the pug lottery on that one. I merely told you what I do in that situation, and never guaranteed it to work. I have been left in the Nascar dust in my Dire Whale too, it happens.

That being said, if I know that the enemy assault lance will always spawn in one place, better players will know it as well, and every match will be exactly the same. Intel may not always be the deciding factor, but it IS a factor.

[Cion]

This is a reasonable proposed solution, and much better than the complaints / rage threads of players.

I'd be willing to try it just to see if the complaints (not this thread) go down.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me, I've never complained when by CHOICE I forgo SPEED for FIREPOWER, and get killed, especially in a PUG.
*Can't have it all people, can't have it all... *

[Yokaiko]

I vote remove River Sh1tty

Serious unreasoning hatred of that map.

[Xmith]

I unchecked skirmish until I mastered my DWF. No problems once mastered. A little more speed is all you need.

I think some just don't pay attention which map and gamemode that dropped in. River City and HPG are 2 maps that require a mech to get going right at the gate. If you don't, you just might get mowed down by a hard push right.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I only play CW- this might not work in public?

All you've got to do is snag team commander, move all the mechs into the proper lances (each lance has a designated LZ in CW). Just drag and drop, m8.

You want an automatic solution? Don't know about all that- maybe you can suggest something. I've heard twitter is useful for these things. I can't help you with that, but the above may be useful.

Sorry if it only works in CW.

Edit: It REALLY sounds like the problem ain't with the LZ/dropzone/spawn. Sounds like your team left you behind for dogmeat. That sucks, and I could go on and on about small psychological tricks or no-brainer leadership techniques, but I won't.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 05 April 2015 - 10:33 PM.

[Elizander]

Kinda dumb that bottom team in Alpine Skirmish has the assault lance spawning at the farthest point away from the mountain.

My bigger peeve though is that dropships drop my mechs facing AWAY from the objective (and usually facing a wall with my back to potential campers). Hope they fix that. Also wasted time turning around for slower mechs.

[Stoned Prophet]

Lolpingu, on 05 April 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

So, today one of the most infuriating things have happened, and one of the reasons why the Dire Wolf in my hangar is usually nothing more than a 100-ton paperweight, because I rarely drive it.

My lance, consisting of a DW (me), a Gargoyle, a Stalker and a Warhawk, spawned in the landing pad, on River City night.

In chat, someone wrote "get out of B4 asap", and in a move that surprised no one ever, my whole lance was gone, heading towards the bridge. I did what I could to get away, but 48kph won't get you very far, especially when 2 lances are all focusing fire on you - speaking of which...

No more than 5 seconds after that happened, I was swarmed by 2 heavy/medium lances and died shortly after while trying to get away.

So, to sum it up, my death that game was unavoidable - meaning that, no matter how skilled I may or may not have been at MWO, I would have died regardless. Now, before you say "you could have powered down" - while I didn't try it in this particular match, I tried it before in similar situations (of which there were many) and, well, a Dire Wolf is still a Dire Wolf, and everybody saw me regardless.

So what's the problem here?

Assault lances can spawn on the edges. Not only does this not account for the fact that PUG players could generally care less about you being left behind and overwhelmed by fast enemy mechs, it also doesn't account for mechs like the DW, which can usually do 48kph at most, 53 if mastered, which is still slow by any standards.

This means that if the team isn't heading your way, you're going to have to head the team's way, meaning that you have to catch up to 60+kph mechs in a 48kph mech.

It also means that if there are light mechs on the team set on exploiting the situation, you're pretty boned. Even if you somehow manage to kill a light mech that's taking advantage of your newfound solitude (which I have - and I have to admit, killing light mechs with gauss rifles never gets old), the time you spend killing it is enough time for a few more lights/mediums to get to you, and, well, there's only so much a DW can do.

The fix for this problem is simple - make the assault lance always spawn in the middle, to eliminate situations where you die an unavoidable death seconds into the match.

Thank you.

I actually support this idea. Why? Because thats how you anchor your line. Normally, thats how they would deploy unless special consideration is required.

[TyphonCh]

Honestly... Its mainly the map itself. Its far too small for 24 massive stomping robots. if it were 8v8 (hint hint) the spawn points would be closer together... Or that's what i assume

[Grey Ghost]

I've just made it a priority at the start to just converge towards wherever the Assault Unit is at, depending on the map. Which has worked out pretty darn well from my perspective. However if I'm in the Assault Unit all bets are off.

[Vandul]

A trend that I am seeing more and more (and its a good thing) is that ECM light that comes over to the trudgers and provides them with an umbrella until they get into position. I do it when I am in my ECM mechs, and I ensure I thank every ECM pilot that does it when I am one of the disavowed four.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vandul, on 06 April 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

A trend that I am seeing more and more (and its a good thing) is that ECM light that comes over to the trudgers and provides them with an umbrella until they get into position. I do it when I am in my ECM mechs, and I ensure I thank every ECM pilot that does it when I am one of the disavowed four.

Just don't be the one that lines up right in front of my Atlas and then goes 30 KpH! I'm slow enough without watching you walk backwards slower than I can waddle (run) forwards.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 April 2015 - 03:53 AM.

[Mechteric]

The real problem: River City is simply too small for 12v12, it wasn't made for it. The spread out dropzones don't help either.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 06 April 2015 - 05:52 AM.

[Burktross]

I don't usually play assaults.
But when I do.
Our lance get's left behind, and the team dies without us.

+1

[Virgil Greyson]

I think this is more a symptom of how hilariously small River City is for 12v12.

[Mystere]

This needs to be a player-based solution, and not a call for PGI to do something.

MWO is supposed to be a team-oriented game. As such players should be doing their part.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Vandul, on 06 April 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

A trend that I am seeing more and more (and its a good thing) is that ECM light that comes over to the trudgers and provides them with an umbrella until they get into position. I do it when I am in my ECM mechs, and I ensure I thank every ECM pilot that does it when I am one of the disavowed four.

You Sir are as valuable as gold to your assault pilots. As an assault pilot, sincerely, thanks for providing that cover. Unfortunately in PUGs this is so rare that I'm pleasantly amazed when it actually happens. I like to personally thank anyone who hangs around with the assault lance and accompanies us in to combat.

As the assault driver I'm more than happy to get a load of face time with the enemy, use up tons of armour and also get 800 damage & 3-4 kills. What I'd dearly love most players to realise is that I need to get safely to the battle to make use of my firepower & armour. Dying hundreds of metres behind the main group to a light rush doesn't help me and doesn't help the team.

So, everyone: help your assaults & they'll help you.