81 replies to this topic

[Mcchuggernaut]

InspectorG, on 08 April 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

Sounds like you want Solaris 1 vs 1 deathmatch.

Aren't we supposed to be getting something like that sooner or later? Unless what I heard was an April fools day joke, in which case I am sad.

[InspectorG]

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 April 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Aren't we supposed to be getting something like that sooner or later? Unless what I heard was an April fools day joke, in which case I am sad.

I dunno?

Some want it.

Others(including me) want PGI to spend resources elsewhere. The reason being, MWO is a team game and that is what separates it from most other shooters and compliments the 'Sim' element.

You could post vids of your play for critique, but, you better have thick skin and take criticism well - and tolerate any possible trolls.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope will bite.

Barring stat whoring or playing purely for good stats (which is always possible) the Space Pope would say that a K/D above 2.5 and a W/L above...let's say a bit generously 1.35 puts you in the "good category".

The Space Pope is a bit hesitant about caring too much about someone's W/L as it can depend on how you usually play in regards to group size. If you always roll deep with a unit of 6+ players, you should be breaking a 2.0 in W/L without trouble, but if you solo a lot or drop with a small group, it can be a bit harder to carry the pugs to victory.

Looking back at K/D, the Space Pope would also say that in some good mechs (preferably meta friendly builds) or builds with which you have a lot of experience, he would probably aim for a K/D above 3.0 to view it as a mech you are good with.

Naturally, stats are not the end all be all, there are some great players with average stats due to the way they play (using bad mechs for fun, not taking pug matches seriously, etc.) and there are some average players with really good stats (from rolling with big units or playing in K/D friendly ways) so the Space Pope wouldn't necessarily put too much value on stats. With that being said, stats can be used with other things to evaluate a player (i.e. if someone posts their stats and has a 5 KD and 1.9 W/L in a Timberwolf and then plays well when you encounter them over several matches, they are probably pretty good).

Edit: Matches played with a mech also matters, having a really good W/L or K/D in a mech isn't really impressive until you go far above 100 matches for said mech.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 08 April 2015 - 06:22 PM.

[Eboli]

In my opinion how good you are comes down to how you treat people in the game and whether you are happy to provide advice to new players as well as giving all players respect, until they prove themselves otherwise.

K/D and W/L is only important to you and and not to others.

My opinion only and no doubt will differ from others. But that is ok.

Cheers!
Eboli

[Mcchuggernaut]

The True Space Pope, on 08 April 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

The Space Pope will bite.

Barring stat whoring or playing purely for good stats (which is always possible) the Space Pope would say that a K/D above 2.5 and a W/L above...let's say a bit generously 1.35 puts you in the "good category".

The Space Pope is a bit hesitant about caring too much about someone's W/L as it can depend on how you usually play in regards to group size. If you always roll deep with a unit of 6+ players, you should be breaking a 2.0 in W/L without trouble, but if you solo a lot or drop with a small group, it can be a bit harder to carry the pugs to victory.

Looking back at K/D, the Space Pope would also say that in some good mechs (preferably meta friendly builds) or builds with which you have a lot of experience, he would probably aim for a K/D above 3.0 to view it as a mech you are good with.

Naturally, stats are not the end all be all, there are some great players with average stats due to the way they play (using bad mechs for fun, not taking pug matches seriously, etc.) and there are some average players with really good stats (from rolling with big units or playing in K/D friendly ways) so the Space Pope wouldn't necessarily put too much value on stats. With that being said, stats can be used with other things to evaluate a player (i.e. if someone posts their stats and has a 5 KD and 1.9 W/L in a Timberwolf and then plays well when you encounter them over several matches, they are probably pretty good).

Edit: Matches played with a mech also matters, having a really good W/L or K/D in a mech isn't really impressive until you go far above 100 matches for said mech.

Finally, a clear-cut picture of where I stand overall! And from the Pope of all Space, no less! I pug almost exclusively, and know I would do better in a coordinated unit, so I guess good but not top-tier yet is where I would put myself. I have work yet to do. Thanks!

[Krivvan]

It's pointless because you can boost your kdr past the hundreds. I'm sure someone will post one eventually. Run exclusively with an unstoppable group for a couple hundred games and you can just never die.

If you want it to be meaningful, look at specific mechs and separate solo queue from group queue.

Edited by Krivvan, 08 April 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[Mawai]

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 April 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

I also understand that because of the way the matchmaker works, the better you are the crappier teammates you get paired with and vice versa, and this drives your win/loss ratio close to 1/1 no matter if you are good or terrible.

I quoted the complete BS part of your post. Matchmaker could care less about what your rating is ... it pairs you with comparably skilled players. If you have two teams of equally skilled players ... guess what? Your odds of winning are 50/50 on average ... if your odds of winning are 50/50 then your W/L rate will tend towards 1.0. Nothing to do with your matchmaker conspiracy theory idea.


If you find that too many of the players in the matches you are involved in play badly ... then you have to look at the skill level of your opponents and figure that it reflects your current rating in the class of mech that you are driving. You have a different Elo rating for each class.

If you are still winning more often than losing over an extended period for a given weight class than then your Elo will still be going up ... you will be matched against more skilled opponents until you reach a point where your W/L will balance out. The only time this does not happen are for the top and bottom 5 percent or so of players. For this small select group of really good and really bad players there can be insufficient players near their level to form a match so the games they are involved in have a greater chance to have a wider Elo spread.

As for your numbers ... my W/L is about 1.0 on most of my mechs ... I tend to lose a bit more when skilling up a new mech ... then win a bit more after it is mastered. K/D ratio varies depending on the mech ... mechs with a good alpha (like AC20) tend to have a higher K/D than others since they more often get a killing blow. Also, game mode plays a big role in K/D since the D is at least as important as the K ... folks who play conservatively (not me in many cases ) tend to be able to enhance their K/D by minimizing the D. In skirmish, every loss is s a death. Playing either assault or conquest ... it is possible to survive a loss. As a result the K/D number by itself is pretty meaningless since there are many factors that go into it. My HBK-4G for example has a K/D of close to 2.0 ... mostly because I run it in a support mode providing backup to the assaults in a lot of games ... this tends to reduce the D likelihood in wins and provide opportunities to maximize Kills.

Finally, in most of my games the players seem to mostly know what they are doing ... there really aren't that many bad players in the games I play these days and most players appear to listen when it is suggested to group up and stick together. It isn't always like that ... and even when folks listen they can still lose by falling into peek a boo strategies, not pushing when they need to. not responding to an unexpected flanking attack ... but that has far more to do with lack of teamwork than it does bad play.

[Roadkill]

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 April 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

Right now I'm sitting at a 1.92 k/d with a 553/480 win-loss ratio.

It depends almost entirely on your style of play and the queue you play in.

You said you play primarily solo, so your WLR of 1.15 seems pretty good to me. It's tough to get much higher than that without playing in the Group queue.

1.92 as a front-line brawler in the Solo queue is pretty good, especially if you're the type (like me) who tends to be one of the first to engage. I'm willing to get the fight started if my team's with me, but that means I'm going to die more often than not simply because I'll be the first person that the enemy sees. But this only applies if you're really a brawler - I see a lot of people who claim to be brawlers who are really strikers - they employ hit-and-run tactics, not brawling tactics. A striker falls into the next category...

It's fair to middling if you're a striker or mid-range support pilot. You aren't tanking as much damage with that style of play, so you die less often. Since your death rate has more to do with your KDR than your kill rate (at least for KDR > 1.0), dying less often will rapidly raise it.

It's pretty bad if you're a long-range high-alpha sniper. A good player using that style of play should be averaging 3 kills per match, win or lose, and should only be dying in the losses. So a 5-6 KDR would tell me that someone's a pretty damn good sniper.

[Ace Selin]

I have more fun than you if youre still talking about k/d, win/loss ratio - makes me a better player.

Edited by Ace Selin, 08 April 2015 - 08:49 PM.

[Xetelian]

Eboli, on 08 April 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

In my opinion how good you are comes down to how you treat people in the game and whether you are happy to provide advice to new players as well as giving all players respect, until they prove themselves otherwise.

K/D and W/L is only important to you and and not to others.

My opinion only and no doubt will differ from others. But that is ok.

Cheers!
Eboli

The True Space Pope, on 08 April 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

The Space Pope will bite.

Barring stat whoring or playing purely for good stats (which is always possible) the Space Pope would say that a K/D above 2.5 and a W/L above...let's say a bit generously 1.35 puts you in the "good category".

The Space Pope is a bit hesitant about caring too much about someone's W/L as it can depend on how you usually play in regards to group size. If you always roll deep with a unit of 6+ players, you should be breaking a 2.0 in W/L without trouble, but if you solo a lot or drop with a small group, it can be a bit harder to carry the pugs to victory.

Looking back at K/D, the Space Pope would also say that in some good mechs (preferably meta friendly builds) or builds with which you have a lot of experience, he would probably aim for a K/D above 3.0 to view it as a mech you are good with.

Naturally, stats are not the end all be all, there are some great players with average stats due to the way they play (using bad mechs for fun, not taking pug matches seriously, etc.) and there are some average players with really good stats (from rolling with big units or playing in K/D friendly ways) so the Space Pope wouldn't necessarily put too much value on stats. With that being said, stats can be used with other things to evaluate a player (i.e. if someone posts their stats and has a 5 KD and 1.9 W/L in a Timberwolf and then plays well when you encounter them over several matches, they are probably pretty good).

Edit: Matches played with a mech also matters, having a really good W/L or K/D in a mech isn't really impressive until you go far above 100 matches for said mech.

If I dropped with 6-7 guys from LORD I'd probably have a great W/L and KDR even in my spider.

Without knowing if they're solo queue or group queue it is maybe a little harder to judge.

[RoboPatton]

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 April 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

So a normally 1.9-2.0 k/d: Good, bad, in the middle? What stats do top-tier players have? Is there a place to check out leaderboards and my individual standing?

Did you have the "Funs" while you played? Yes? You're doing it right my friend.

[Martel66]

Mawai, on 08 April 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

I quoted the complete BS part of your post. Matchmaker could care less about what your rating is ... it pairs you with comparably skilled players.

This.
You'll know how good you are by average skill level of the other players in your solo matches. If they suck, you suck, if they're good, you're good.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Mawai, on 08 April 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

I quoted the complete BS part of your post.

I don't think your right about how the matchmaker works. Everything I have heard and read before is that the matchmaker works by looking for an average skill level that is as close as possible for the two teams, and doesn't do it how you say. To my knowledge, it works by finding an AVERAGE skill level by adding up the skill levels of two teams. This is why you get so many teammates that don't do well after you have a particularly long streak of good games, and get a lot of competent teammates when you have been consistently doing poorly for a while. That explains a lot of the "streaks" of wins and losses a lot of players see, as well as those sets of games where you easily pull off 600+ damage a match but your team keeps melting and self-destructing on you.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 08 April 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Hound of War]

If you are hiding till the end of a match so you can kill all those half dead enemy mechs then you are not a good player but just another gutless punk milking a K/D. Imo a good player will try to help his team win, even if that means not getting loads of kills. Dont be that gutless punk and you are allready on yer way to good.

[STEF_]

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 April 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

Yes, but wouldn't a good player compensate somewhat for bad mechs with skill? Isn't most everyone grinding mechs, and therefore subjected to the same pressures? Every time I grind or run a bad build I come back and hover at around 2.0 when I go back to using my favored elited mechs...

NOPE.

Listen to me: using a kill stealer actitude in a kill stealer mech, you can have high KD ratio without doing nothing: classic example: fs9, that I use above all in challenge requiring one k and one assist. Just wait for a cookie, and boom: kill aquired.
Meanwhile with a fattie doing a lot of work, you can achieve high dmg... and no kill at all if you have 2 3 stealer in the team.

About W/L ratio, it isn't a good parameter too, because this is a team based game. You win or lose thanks to te team, and you can help with around 1/12 of the effort.

THE REAL parameter of effectiveness/efficiency is this, IMO: dmg/ton/match.

[Darian DelFord]

Screw K/D and W/L ratio, they mean nothing in this game. To be honest I am more scared of a Light who knows how to aim. Personally all I do is open you up so the big boys can finish you. Since I do not go for a kill shot does not mean I suck, I set it up for the other guy.

My job is to cause chaos and put a 30 point precision alpha while doing 152 KPH and having laser vomit following me so my team can hit what I hopefully opened.

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 April 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

I don't think your right about how the matchmaker works. Everything I have heard and read before is that the matchmaker works by looking for an average skill level that is as close as possible for the two teams, and doesn't do it how you say. To my knowledge, it works by finding an AVERAGE skill level by adding up the skill levels of two teams. This is why you get so many teammates that don't do well after you have a particularly long streak of good games, and get a lot of competent teammates when you have been consistently doing poorly for a while. That explains a lot of the "streaks" of wins and losses a lot of players see, as well as those sets of games where you easily pull off 600+ damage a match but your team keeps melting and self-destructing on you.

Incorrect, ELO is calculated based off of your W/L record per weight class nothing more nothing less.

Skill levels have absolutely NOTHING to do with how you are assigned

Edited by Darian DelFord, 08 April 2015 - 10:04 PM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 April 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

You win or lose thanks to the team, and you can help with around 1/12 of the effort.

1/12 sounds really bad when you have to carry a team. I long for the days of 8v8 when your individual performance in a pug match mattered more.

[N0MAD]

You know when you are good?
When you finish a game in either solo/group, and without looking at the scoreboard you can say.."that was a good game for me" or " man i F..cked up that game, not good".
Besides being good isnt about your score mostly its how you contribute, some of the best players i know dont often top score, but man they know exactly whats going on over the battle field and can direct play.
Its actually pretty easy to learn to point click, its another thing to have real battlefield/situational awareness and be able to direct and play your advantages, to me these are the real good players, some can do both, there are few of these in most games..

[STEF_]

Mcchuggernaut, on 08 April 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

1/12 sounds really bad when you have to carry a team. I long for the days of 8v8 when your individual performance in a pug match mattered more.

In 8vs8 your contribute will be 1/8. Still 7/8 is upon teamates.

BTW, in my previous post, neither dmg is a good indicator, because 600 dmg in a dire and 600 dmg in a commando... are 2 completely different skill levels.
That's why dmg/tons/match.

[Michal R]

How good are you? It's simple.
Do you wait for match 4-5 minute ?
Do you do top of dmg in match?
Have some kills?
And losse? Becouse your team is a band of morons?
Every question on Yes?
Then you have high elo and you are good Player.
Simple isn't it