50 replies to this topic

[Zodal]

I still don't understand the benefit of using a PPC over a LPL.

There are only two benefits that really stand out over the truckload of cons:

1. A PPC has about 300 more range than a LPL.

2. Instantaneous damage to a component vs damage over time.

But even these benefits are currently out of wack due to other game mechanics!

1. A PPC may have more range, but the velocity of the PPC makes it horrible at long ranges.

2. A PPC instantaneous damage but it is a weapon that suffers heavily from hit reg on components.


I just don't understand why I should use a PPC over a LPL. Large pulse lasers:

1. Have lower heat.
2. Do more damage.
3. Have less cooldown.
4. Use less slots.
5. Have more dps
6. Doesn't have a minimum range.
7. Have no projectile travel time.

Even worse, I attempted a PPC vs LPL on the firebrand, a mech quirked specifically to use PPCS. Guess what happened? I can fire the LPL nonstop about twice as much as the PPCS without overheating! Now that's broken.

Can someone please tell me what I'm missing from the equation here? Why should I ever use a PPC over a LPL?

[GreyNovember]

Poptarting as an Urbie at range.

I used to run a twin PPC Raven 4X. Heat quirks made it so it could spit them out nicely.

[BourbonFaucet]

Front loaded damage has fallen by the wayside in favor of larger more sustainable alphas, such as lasvomit.

One way to buff the PPC is to make the projectile hitbox match the graphics so that it stops passing through components. They could also make the heat buildup from the weapon occur over 1 second rather than instantaneously.

[Juodas Varnas]

Shooting lightning > pewpewpew

[RazorbeastFXK3]

LPL are more for short/medium range brawling and you can spread the damage a little over multiple parts. PPC is for one shot damage (you either hit or miss) and all damage goes to that one spot you hit (unless you're using a clan ppc which spreads damage to adjacent hitboxes)

I figure it's a bonus with the range (unless you don't have any short range weapons to keep the damage up within 90M of your 'mech of course) and less chance of scattering the damage to parts of your target you didn't intend to hit.

[Ultimax]

One year ago, people asked this same question, except the weapon preference was reversed.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Honestly, other than a PPC quirked chassis, I tend to avoid them. Slow travel time, medium range, no minimum range damage (under 90m).

I tend to use PPCs on...
*Quirked PPC chassis with velocity quirks = to 40% (sorry Cat K2)
*Fast movers where I want limited exposure to enemy fire, yet am fast enough to open range quickly to place the enemy outside my 90m min range.

As for ERPPCs, only quirked chassis of 40% velocity and good heat dissipation quirks. Without those two things, it is worse than PPCs. Range is longer, but without quirks, too hard to hit a target at extreme range. It's also WAY too hot to normally run more than 1. At least it has no min range.

Most times I prefer a LPLaser grouped with 2 or more MLasers when I can afford the exposure time.

[Gas Guzzler]

PPCs only have 175 m more range, not 300.

They are hotter, take up more slots, do less damage and have slow velocity. I wouldn't take PPCs over LPLs except on very mobile mechs were you can fire and twist/move away. They have minimum face time which is nice, but I wouldn't take unquirked PPCs into a tournament or anything.

[blood4blood]

Quirks: yes, if they're good enough.
Sniping: only on a mech fast enough to do it well; most mechs are just to slow to be good hill or corner snipers, and the current state of JJ's makes jump sniping iffy at best.
Disable ECM: it's a nice side effect, but not enough to justify taking PPC's over lasers.

There are plenty of times I'd take LPL or (LL + sinks) instead of PPC's, even on mechs with PPC quirks.

[LordNothing]

one little known factoid about ppcs is that they can disrupt ecm. so think of it as being a poor mans bap. if you have 2 or 3 of them and can sustain fire for a few shots its enough time for a lerm boat to get a lock on it and help take it out.

damage wise ppcs arent that great for the heat cost of using them. their main niche is distance camping though. their anti ecm effects need to be longer and they need to scramble sensors for a short time on any mechs they hit as well. thus they can useful tactical weapons. i generally avoid them unless quirks.

[Sorbic]

Techorse, on 09 April 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Front loaded damage has fallen by the wayside in favor of larger more sustainable alphas, such as lasvomit.

One way to buff the PPC is to make the projectile hitbox match the graphics so that it stops passing through components. They could also make the heat buildup from the weapon occur over 1 second rather than instantaneously.

This! I always felt the hitbox should be bigger but had never really thought about the heat being instant. Realistically (shhh) heat build up and then spread wouldn't be instant so no weapon should instantly cause it to jump.

[JohnnyWayne]

LordNothing, on 09 April 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

one little known factoid about ppcs is that they can disrupt ecm. so think of it as being a poor mans bap. if you have 2 or 3 of them and can sustain fire for a few shots its enough time for a lerm boat to get a lock on it and help take it out.

damage wise ppcs arent that great for the heat cost of using them. their main niche is distance camping though. their anti ecm effects need to be longer and they need to scramble sensors for a short time on any mechs they hit as well. thus they can useful tactical weapons. i generally avoid them unless quirks.

Oh please, a poor mans bap? Its 7 tons heavy, hold 4 seconds - not even enough to see weakpoints and produces a shitton of heat. That is the first worlds alternative BAP for people that have too much tonnage.

PPCs of any kind are a joke atm, they have been nerfed to death thanks to the synergy between AC/Gauss and PPCs themself. Instead of a much needed mechanic to reduce that synergy they just ****** THEM UP.

[FupDup]

In theory, the PPC should be better at long ranges while the LPL wins at brawls.

Currently, the former isn't very true, primarily due to low velocity making PPCs crap at long ranges.

[LordNothing]

more velocity would also be on my ppc wishlist. even with some of the 30% quirks out there i kinda thing the weapon is still too slow to be used for camping. thats in addition to longer disruption times and sensor deprivation effects. another thing i i think mwo needs to start doing is allow heat warfare. its been for the most part avoided to prevent troll builds, to the point of making flamers useless. but ppcs should inflict heat on their target.

[Davegt27]

Zodal, on 09 April 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

I still don't understand the benefit of using a PPC over a LPL.

There are only two benefits that really stand out over the truckload of cons:

1. A PPC has about 300 more range than a LPL.

2. Instantaneous damage to a component vs damage over time.

But even these benefits are currently out of wack due to other game mechanics!

1. A PPC may have more range, but the velocity of the PPC makes it horrible at long ranges.

2. A PPC instantaneous damage but it is a weapon that suffers heavily from hit reg on components.


I just don't understand why I should use a PPC over a LPL. Large pulse lasers:

1. Have lower heat.
2. Do more damage.
3. Have less cooldown.
4. Use less slots.
5. Have more dps
6. Doesn't have a minimum range.
7. Have no projectile travel time.

Even worse, I attempted a PPC vs LPL on the firebrand, a mech quirked specifically to use PPCS. Guess what happened? I can fire the LPL nonstop about twice as much as the PPCS without overheating! Now that's broken.

Can someone please tell me what I'm missing from the equation here? Why should I ever use a PPC over a LPL?

The only reason I use PPCs' is to use something different from the typical laser vomit.

If you have three or four Mech variants’' you might have a laser Mech an AC/Dakka Mech so having a PPC Mech is a nice little change

(I put a PPC on my Raven 2X lol)

[STEF_]

Ultimatum X, on 09 April 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

One year ago, people asked this same question, except the weapon preference was reversed.

But then ppcs were nerfed to the ground... still remember the day after that patch: I was used to snipe with a double erppc kitty or cicada.
I shot...and I watched 2 giant blue turtles in the air... slowly crawling towards the enemy...

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 09 April 2015 - 10:55 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Why a PPC over a LPL? CUz your a masochist or you like to believe one day they will be buffed to a useable state.

LPL vs PPC?

PPCs PPD and 300m more range is pointless since the PPC speed is so damn slow that you wont hit anything reliably beyond maybe 300m.

LPL runs cooler for better damage

LPL is hit scan, and if you have even moderately decent aim, that IS 0.67 and CLPL 1.12 is barely an issue for dealing damage to a single spot. 1.12 more so, but IS LPL 0.67? Yeah, that is pretty amazing.

Lasers in general are vastly superior to PPCs in almost every way imaginable atm. Until PPCs get much better velocity, or quirks on certain mechs to make them good, PPCs will be ****.

PGI should use the traits of:

IS: lower base damage, faster duration, faster output, better heat/dmg ratios and the like for PPC

10/10, 3.5s CD, 1200ms
ER: 10/12, 3.75s CD, 1250ms
CERPPC: 13-1-1/15, 4.25s CD, 1200ms

IS PPC gets better CD then the rest, allowing them to unleash on the enemy, 1200ms is a decent enough base speed, some mechs get quirks to make the speed and heat better, but 1200 allows PPCs to moderatly work out to about 400m.

ISERPPC: 12 heat, down from 15, then quirks to allow it to go a little less even yet, 3.75s CD so it can fire a bit faster then it can now.

CERPPC: Sticks to the CLan notion of higher damage, higher heat, longer duration and time for the output.

PGI should make it happen.

A Mech like the Warhawk and Awesome 8Q should easily get quirks to allow them to get 1300-1350ms velocity, they are the quintessential PPC toting mechs and should be by far and going away the most effective with them. Warhawk should also get a 10% HEat dissipation boost along side its current 8% less ERPPC heat.

[Y E O N N E]

PPCs are supposesd to be a niche weapon, but the lower projectile veolcity is hurting its ability to perform in that niche. I still think a pair of PPC is better than a pair of LPL at the 500 meter mark, but much beyond that and I think you should grab a pair of ERLL unless your robot of choice has some velocity quirks. I think the Thud 9S with a pair of ERPPC is still one of the most devastating long-range 'Mechs in the game, and that's because it has velocity quirks and a generous heat quirk.

PGI really needs to go back and change baseline stats on weapons, and then adjust quirks accordingly. The near-TT values are not working for this game.

[Apnu]

Zodal, on 09 April 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

I still don't understand the benefit of using a PPC over a LPL.

[... stuff ...]

Can someone please tell me what I'm missing from the equation here? Why should I ever use a PPC over a LPL?

Range, quirks, hard point location and what you're intending to do with the build.

LPLs spread damage, PPCs deliver all to one spot.

If I'm brawling, I take all the wub I can fit. If I'm doing fire support, PPC.

PPC vs LPL is more than just a statistic exercise.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 09 April 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

One year ago, people asked this same question, except the weapon preference was reversed.

Well, that had a lot to do with the man holding the LPL (and other pulse lasers) down for many months.

Suppressing the wub was a sad era in MWO.