83 replies to this topic

[Defensores 6]

There should be a way to prevent Mercs from joining a faction. Some of these groups are purposely disrupting inter-clan relationships while pushing their own agenda.

I've just finished a pug CW drop against what at first glance seemed to be a 12 man Smoke Jag team. It was actually a 12 man VRGD team in clan mechs with Smoke Jag colors.

There must be implemented a way for Mercenary units to pay for their plundering ways. We have no recourse, no way to get back at them and it is frustrating, damned frustrating!!


Proof:
https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

[BerserX]

This is funny. I fly a pirate flag and can sympathize with the freelancers!

LONG LIVE THE MERCENARY!!!

[PoorDecisions]

Yes, the solution is to punish successful mercenary efforts because your clan is too lazy or too few to bother defending their planets.

"I'm not winning! The game must be broken!! PUNISH EVERYONE ELSE!"

[Nightmare1]

Clan/Loyalist Player: *Whiny voice* "Mercs are having too much fun!"
Merc Player: "Join us! We have cookies!"
Clan/Loyalist Player: *Whiny voice* "Nerf cookies!"

Seriously though, if CW ever becomes like it was initially described in the Launch Vid below, then no one would be able to whine about anything.



In the meantime, I wouldn't bad mouth Merc Units; for some Factions, it's the Mercs that are keeping them alive while the Clan/Loyalist Units dither.


...Oh yeah, I'm a Pirate too! Argh!

Edited by Nightmare1, 05 April 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[LastKhan]

Pretty much why im a Merc but we shouldn't not let them come and join the clans. keep play styles open for those who bought both IS and Clan mechs.

Honestly this game currently should be called" Mechwarrior Online; Mercenaries" cause thats pretty much it in CW since there isnt a way to separate loyalists and mercs besides what unit joins them..

Edited by LastKhan, 05 April 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[Defensores 6]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

Yes, the solution is to punish successful mercenary efforts because your clan is too lazy or too few to bother defending their planets.

"I'm not winning! The game must be broken!! PUNISH EVERYONE ELSE!"

Clans aren't too lazy or too few. It would be nice to know who is attacking you and why. Merc's have no true loyalty and should be held accountable for their actions against sovereign territory.

Give us a way to strike back at the Terrorists or make them pay LP or C-bill bounty to switch factions. Keep the smelly freebirth filth in the Innersphere where they belong!

[PoorDecisions]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

Clans aren't too lazy or too few. It would be nice to know who is attacking you and why. Merc's have no true loyalty and should be held accountable for their actions against sovereign territory.

Give us a way to strike back at the Terrorists or make them pay LP or C-bill bounty to switch factions. Keep the smelly freebirth filth in the Innersphere where they belong!

Mercenaries fight under a flag. That flag might change once a week or once a month, but they DO have a territory that they're fighting on behalf of. You know that, but it's not convenient for your argument. What does it matter who they are or why they're attacking? You have a chance to attack and defend. Crying about it doesn't change the fact that you have a job to do.

You're just whining.

There already is a c-bill penalty for leaving contracts early, but there's a reason that contracts only last a certain period of time. You aren't happy with contract lengths? Cry more.

Do you just want mercenaries removed from the game entirely? Would that make you less salty?

Edited by manisuck, 05 April 2015 - 11:55 AM.

[Defensores 6]

Nightmare1, on 05 April 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Clan/Loyalist Player: *Whiny voice* "Mercs are having too much fun!"
Merc Player: "Join us! We have cookies!"
Clan/Loyalist Player: *Whiny voice* "Nerf cookies!"

Seriously though, if CW ever becomes like it was initially described in the Launch Vid below, then no one would be able to whine about anything.



In the meantime, I wouldn't bad mouth Merc Units; for some Factions, it's the Mercs that are keeping them alive while the Clan/Loyalist Units dither.


...Oh yeah, I'm a Pirate too! Argh!

Not bad mouthing Merc's - the contract system is totally broken. There is no approval process or penalty for switching factions/houses. "might receive penalty...not fully developed yet..." The contracts are generated by the Merc's - total BS!!

You are correct - without the Merc's the Innersphere would perish!! No clan unit has contracted a Merc unit to attack another clan/faction.

Note: I'm not whining - I cry vengeance!!

[B L O O D W I T C H]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

Yes, the solution is to punish successful mercenary efforts because your clan is too lazy or too few to bother defending their planets.

"I'm not winning! The game must be broken!! PUNISH EVERYONE ELSE!"

Clans have a hard time defending planets because the game is LITERALLY broken.
Less player, can't hold. It's not about beeing lazy, you might want to know your stuff before you're going to cough up nonsense.

CW is broken, mapreset on 21th of april very likely.

http://mwomercs.com/...74#entry4332374

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Mercenaries fight under a flag. That flag might change once a week or once a month

Clans DO NOT employ mercs!

Edited by LOADED, 05 April 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[CK16]

No they just really need to find a way to limit mercs in CW....I think a Solaris style tournament offering great rewards would be something they would flock to. IF you are a permanent contract with your faction having campaign style settings and better rewards ONLY for them would also keep people wanting to stay with a faction. The fact is that mercs make up so much of factions strength is stupid....YES they played a huge part in lore but not this extant of determining whole factions size....with the reset they might do I hope they keep mercs a minor influence not controlling whole sides gains and loses...

Edited by Crottykid16, 05 April 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[CoffiNail]

LastKhan, on 05 April 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Honestly this game currently should be called" Mechwarrior Online; Mercenaries" cause thats pretty much it in CW since there isnt a way to separate loyalists and mercs besides what unit joins them..

*looks up at the name of the website*
Well it kind of it sadly...
MechWarrior Online: Mercenaries...
LOL

I would love how ever for there to be some difference between Clan, House and Mercs. I always felt Clans should not have Mercs, but the Clan 'Loyalist' AKA another Clan taking contracts with the Clans... These are Clan locked like loyalist and can freely move between each faction taking contracts.

Houses would be the main focus on the Inner Sphere side with them picking the targets and handing out the Merc Contracts. The House units play the game and the Mercs are there to take the pay. They do not get planets because they are mercs and not able to sustain more than one or two planets if it was a rather large merc corp... even then.

We will see what phase II and III entail... We may yet get that desire. Where Mercs still effect the game, but not so much to their choosing.

[BerserX]

LOADED, on 05 April 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

Clans DO NOT employ mercs!

Um. This is not true in MWO... We flew the Smoke Jaguar banner for a time, and other merc units have flip-flopped around the clans. Do you mean your specific lore unit does not "hire" (ask) other merc units for help or that merc units literally do not take clan contracts? - because the latter statement is stupid and wrong. Lol.

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

Give us a way to strike back at the Terrorists or make them pay LP or C-bill bounty to switch factions. Keep the smelly freebirth filth in the Innersphere where they belong!

As far as I'm aware of, there is an LP penalty for swapping to factions against your previous faction. This "counter-terrorism" element would be very interesting to implement though. I'd like to see them perfect their AI stuff and implement some AI planetary forces to supplement CW. That might could be used (coupled with your IMO silly treaties and faction relations **but, everyone has their own style of "fun"**) to balance this "issue" by planting heavier forces against the attackers.

There, even pirates can be reasonable-ish.

ARGH, me hearties! ARGH!!!

Btw, I want a pirate smiley...

CoffiNail, on 05 April 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

*looks up at the name of the website*
Well it kind of it sadly...
MechWarrior Online: Mercenaries...
LOL

I would love how ever for there to be some difference between Clan, House and Mercs. I always felt Clans should not have Mercs, but the Clan 'Loyalist' AKA another Clan taking contracts with the Clans... These are Clan locked like loyalist and can freely move between each faction taking contracts.

Houses would be the main focus on the Inner Sphere side with them picking the targets and handing out the Merc Contracts. The House units play the game and the Mercs are there to take the pay. They do not get planets because they are mercs and not able to sustain more than one or two planets if it was a rather large merc corp... even then.

We will see what phase II and III entail... We may yet get that desire. Where Mercs still effect the game, but not so much to their choosing.

This seems like a reasonable balance.

BUT MERCS ARE SIGNIF'CANT!!! FEER US!!! ARGH!!! Plunder an' p'lage their holdin's! ARGH!!!

[PoorDecisions]

LOADED, on 05 April 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

Clans have a hard time defending planets because the game is LITERALLY broken.
Less player, can't hold. It's not about beeing lazy, you might want to know your stuff before you're going to cough up nonsense.

CW is broken, mapreset on 21th of april very likely.

http://mwomercs.com/...74#entry4332374

There is NO confirmation that a map reset is going to take place. At this point, it's only being considered and nothing more.

Also, don't pretend like CW is so broken that it's not viable. When clans were steam rolling IS, the clans were all "get gud scrubs" and now that a ton of pugs have teamed up to help IS push back and clans are getting steam rolled instead, the clans are all like "CW IS BROKEN! MERCS ARE EVIL! WAAAHHH"

Give me a break.

Quote

Clans DO NOT employ mercs!

Sure they do. The first post in this thread is crying about clan mercs --or, the insinuation is certainly there. Don't pretend like IS is actually employing mercenaries. Mercs decide for themselves where they want to go. There is no reward offered from loyalists or other merc units. There's simply a decision on where to go for what fights they want. The mercs move as they see fit.

Crottykid16, on 05 April 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

No they just really need to find a way to limit mercs in CW....I think a Solaris style tournament offering great rewards would be something they would flock to. IF you are a permanent contract with your faction having campaign style settings and better rewards ONLY for them would also keep people wanting to stay with a faction. The fact is that mercs make up so much of factions strength is stupid....YES they played a huge part in lore but not this extant of determining whole factions size....with the reset they might do I hope they keep mercs a minor influence not controlling whole sides gains and loses...

Why limit mercenaries? I haven't heard a single viable argument to support the action.

So you want to remove rewards for mercenaries? Why would anyone ever play mercenaries if there weren't any rewards?

"waahhhh waaaahhhh, punish them! We're not winning so the game is obviously broken! Punish anyone who stops us from winning! Waaaaaah!!"

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

Not bad mouthing Merc's - the contract system is totally broken. There is no approval process or penalty for switching factions/houses. "might receive penalty...not fully developed yet..." The contracts are generated by the Merc's - total BS!!

You are correct - without the Merc's the Innersphere would perish!! No clan unit has contracted a Merc unit to attack another clan/faction.

Note: I'm not whining - I cry vengeance!!

And no loyalist unit has contracted a mercenary unit to fight for them, either, since NO PLAYERS CAN REWARD OTHER PLAYERS.

Mercs choose their own path.

[LastKhan]

Took me two mins. Did i nail it??




Pay me PGI!

Edited by LastKhan, 05 April 2015 - 12:32 PM.

[CK16]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Why limit mercenaries? I haven't heard a single viable argument to support the action.

So you want to remove rewards for mercenaries? Why would anyone ever play mercenaries if there weren't any rewards?

"waahhhh waaaahhhh, punish them! We're not winning so the game is obviously broken! Punish anyone who stops us from winning! Waaaaaah!!"

.

No....limit the and impact they have....when mercs and mercs ALONE control the factions ground gains....there is something REALLY wrong....MErcs are fine....but they should only make up a small % of the player base a very small %....thus negating their impacts on the CW map....

[Lawrence Elsa]

This was a bigger issue when CW started.
A lot of us were not expecting mercs to be able to join any faction without being hired directly, and thus it lead to a lot of drama between units that have had friendly ties for nearly 2 decades. The entire reason everyone was upset with -MS- at the beginning of CW was the fact that major communities that had been established since Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries (such as what you now know as CWI, CGBI, JFP, and others that have either shifted away or recently joined the pact) were unprepared for cross-clan attacks, and responded with nothing short of rage. The entire Clan Wolf and Ghost Bear war was simply over merc units (which we thought were hired directly by CGBI) attacking our worlds, and units like CWDG and CWI responding by taking them back. Needless to say, these misunderstandings were sorted, but eventually resolved after talking with the mercenary leaders, and the attack algorithm was... "fixed".

I have actually seen instances of VRDG joining a faction for only one week and attacking whoever they want, but I can't say for sure if it is to stir the pot, or just take advantage of loyalty bonuses.

Overall, we need a better system than one that is in place, but demanding that a merc unit have anything more than a contract between one, maybe two permanent unit(s) in order to play the game would be madness.

[Defensores 6]

Proposed solutions to PGI:

#1 - relocate Mercenary units to either IS or Clan where they are only allowed to fight for one side and not attack other houses or factions dependent upon their location. If at some point the example Mercenary unit decides to switch sides IS/Clan then they must pay a significant penalty (all earned LP or C-bills) for doing so.

#2 - dissolve Mercenary units altogether allowing only individual players Merc status. This would eliminate contract issues and promote the Merc status for players that desire the autonomy to switch between units whenever they like.

#3 - give Mercenary units a distinct boundary on the map and implement a true contract system so they can be utilized as intended by factions and houses alike. They should not be able to roam freely like pirates to continually disrupt they play style of CW.

[Lawrence Elsa]

Crottykid16, on 05 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

No....limit the and impact they have....when mercs and mercs ALONE control the factions ground gains....there is something REALLY wrong....MErcs are fine....but they should only make up a small % of the player base a very small %....thus negating their impacts on the CW map....

The main reason mercs turned the tide of battle is the same reason clans won 53% of the matches fought last weekend but lost every planet. Simply having 1 more 12-man team means that your side has attack initiative, and thus can gain (or re-take) territory rather than having to protect the same sliver of land for 8 hours until it is lost.

To put it bluntly, the problem lies with the orchard, not the apple.

Edited by Lawrence Elsa, 05 April 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

Yes, the solution is to punish successful mercenary efforts because your clan is too lazy or too few to bother defending their planets.

"I'm not winning! The game must be broken!! PUNISH EVERYONE ELSE!"

That argument doesn't even make sense. The issue is high population disparity between factions. How can you blame loyalists for that?

[M E X]

LOADED, on 05 April 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

Clans DO NOT employ mercs!

But they take them as BONDSMEN !
Just look at what Clan Wolf did with Phelan KELL ...