359 replies to this topic

[Riffleman]

To those who know the lore, how did this work. How did the inner sphere manage to hold on? Did they outnumber the clans in general? The clans had huge advantages:

1. Suprise. Struck hard and fast before the inner sphere even knew of their existance.

2. suposedly superior troops. Bred to wage war, with superior genes.

3. Far more advanced technology. Everything that the clans had was superior to the inner sphere version, and had technologies lost to them.

So how exactly did they survive that first war?

[BduSlammer]

they learned , same way russia did in WW2 and then comstar thru in 50 fresh regiments

Edited by BduSlammer, 01 July 2012 - 08:55 PM.

[Ancalagon]

The Clans fought bravely, the Clans fought valiantly, the Clans fought honourably. And the Clans failed.

[Twisted Power]

Their tactics were inferior.

O yea and comstar said what.

Edited by Twisted Power, 01 July 2012 - 08:58 PM.

[Kaheli]

I think mostly because Clans weren't used to the way IS wages war, and the way IS wages war is often deceitful and devious. Clans rank honor above everything, and that was what caused their downfall i think.

[John Kerensky]

Riffleman, on 01 July 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

To those who know the lore, how did this work. How did the inner sphere manage to hold on? Did they outnumber the clans in general? The clans had huge advantages:

1. Suprise. Struck hard and fast before the inner sphere even knew of their existance.

2. suposedly superior troops. Bred to wage war, with superior genes.

3. Far more advanced technology. Everything that the clans had was superior to the inner sphere version, and had technologies lost to them.

So how exactly did they survive that first war?

Surprise only lasts so long, and they had a LOT of worlds to slough through on their way to Terra.

They did have superior troops, but they were trained for honor duels, not actual real war.

They had superior tech. Heck, they even out-classed what the ComGuards had, but again, the whole honor duels versus actual real war threw them for a loop.

Also they were vastly out numbered. Even so, they could probably have cut much more deeply into the Inner Sphere probably conquered the whole shebang (or at least up to Terra) if not for the Deus Ex Machina that is the Great Refusal of Tukayyid (which shouldn't have even happened, since those who declared it were not of the Clans, and thus had no right initiating such a trial).

EDIT: My mistake; it was a Trial of Possession (for Terra), which I guarantee you the IS would not have honored had they lost.

Edited by John Kerensky, 01 July 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

from what I can recall, the Clans under bid at Tukayyid. Some clans made mistakes in what they assumed, and it all added up into the loss at Tukayyid. I link this: http://www.sarna.net...tle_of_Tukayyid. On a separate note, how do ppl place links like the one I did, but, instead have it say like: Read Here. and have THAT be the link?

[LunarWind]

Numbers.
As I understand it, the clans live further from the galactic center on less hospitible planets which cannot sustain massive populations.

I would guess that the Inner Sphere has greater numbers of pilots as well as vast amounts of natural resources and an industrial infrastructure to exploit them.

As a point of reference, you ever hear of the Imperial Guard from Warhammer 40K?
They have the worst troops, the worst equipment, and never surprise anyone, ever.
They also outnumber just about everyone else by at least 10 to 1. Sometimes more like 1,000 to one.

I don't care how well you aim your gun, or how great your gun is, or how long you had to prepare the gun to shoot me.
You've got X number of bullets and I've got X+2 friends.

[Buck Rogers]

Yep, as others said.

Comstar was like "Looks like the inner sphere is doomed 'cause we don't have a secret army of Star League fresh battlemechs or the trained pilots to drive them. Comstar would never hide such a huge secret from the rest of the Inner Sphere. LOL just kidding."

[Loc]

The clans would have but a valiant pilot crashed into the cockpit of their commander killing him, causing them to pull back and hold what they had

[William Petersen]

buck rogers, on 01 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Yep, as others said.

Comstar was like "Looks like the inner sphere is doomed 'cause we don't have a secret army of Star League fresh battlemechs or the trained pilots to drive them. Comstar would never hide such a huge secret from the rest of the Inner Sphere. LOL just kidding."

That was actually pretty much their official line. Until they found out the Clans' ultimate aim was to take away ComStar's seat of power: Terra.

[Damascas]

They were bled dry across a thousand worlds for every clan mech that fell a dozen IS mechs went down with it, only for 100 to come in their place, guerrillas sapped their reserves so they could not relieve their frontline forces and the frontline troops had to constantly attack for if they ever faltered the IS would in an instant mount a counter-attack.

During the invasion you would literally see a clan galaxy fight up to 5 regiments of IS mechs and vehicles.

Edited by Damascas, 01 July 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

<sputters> That was an act of raw cowardice. That was not the act of a warrior, but a coward. Do not commend such brazen dishonor. Abhor it, shun it, do not commend it.

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 01 July 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[John Kerensky]

Rejarial Galatan, on 01 July 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

<sputters> That was an act of raw cowardice. That was not the act of a warrior, but a coward. Do not commend such brazen dishonor. Abhor it, shun it, do not commend it.

You are a fool who does not even know his own Clan's Remembrance.



Tyra and her warriors fought
Like crazed demons above Radstadt.
When her fighter crippled by ours,
And her life leaked away into the endless night,
She chose to die
And sent her fighter like a spear
Through the Dire Wolf, claiming as isorla
Our mighty ilKhan's life. Sing of our loss, warriors!
Sing, but of Tyra also
For though an enemy, her courage none can deny.

-- The Remembrance of Clan Wolf, Passage 294, Verse 8, Lines 24-33

Seyla.

[BenEEeees VAT GROWN BACON]

Infighting between the clans as well?

Also, they ran out of bacon mid way and had to eat that freebirth crap. It really lowered morale.

[Fortune]

A combination of short supplies, difference mentality(honor duel against actual war), and the fact that IS used clanners' own sword against them (great refusal war) made the clanners back down.

Actually, the whole invasion was poorly thought out.

[Thorn Blackwell]

The Inner Sphere used the tubies "Code" against them, and that's it in a nutshell. The story is worth reading in the Lethal Heritage, Blood Legacy, Lost Destiny trilogy.

[L Y N X]

For all the reasons stated above and...

for some of the same reasons the South was unable to win vs the North in the USA civil war (Numbers, industrial might) and also...

The clans became divided into warden and crusader clans... The Wardens saw them selves as the protectors of the IS the Kerensky old guard if you will, while the Crusader clans meant to take Terra and save the IS from their devious and corrupt ways...

FWIW... That's my 2 coppers...

[SuomiWarder]

I would say it is because taking and holding something are two different things. Coalition forces smacked Iraqi and Afhgan forces out of the war pretty quick, but have yet to pacify and control either location for years.

There simply was not enough Clanners. Their population base started from the core of the Star League military that could fit in transport ships. Then they artificially reduced their combat numbers by only using the "best" warriors bred for combat. Roughly half of the entire Clan group refused to attack the Inner Sphere and only some of the "Crusader" clans were allowed the right to engage in combat.

Eventually, the IS learned to use numbers and Clan tactical trends against them. the best tech does not always win. Look at WWII. The Sherman medium tank built by the US was outclassed by most German tanks. Yet we built so many of them that allied forces learned to use them to outmanuever the Germans, then used artillery and aircraft to seal the deal. Clanner emphasis on BattleMechs left them vulnerable to combined arms and small guerilla warfare groups.

And finally, because whoever was in charge of the storyline decided not to have the Clans win, and go for the classic outclassed underdog finds a way to win scenario.

Edited by SuomiWarder, 01 July 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Aramusha]

Ultimately..the numbers game and clan divisions.

As pointed out by others already, the division of the Clans into the Crusader/Warden camps did it's fair share of slowing and ultimately halting the Clan advance.

Clandestine 'merc' units like the Wolf's Dragoons (a Clan Wolf affiliated Warden unit) not only open shared information and technology but took up arms against their Clan brethren once the Invasion went full blown.