359 replies to this topic

[xX_Nero_Xx]

this is so easy they got sloppy.
the tatics sherman vs tiger in ww2 numbers where 10 shermans to everyone tiger thats how the IS won .

[Lunarchaos]

lol i just found blood legacy blood of kerensky volume 2 in my computer desk.

[Sephlock]

Riffleman, on 01 July 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

To those who know the lore, how did this work. How did the inner sphere manage to hold on? Did they outnumber the clans in general? The clans had huge advantages:


1. Suprise. Struck hard and fast before the inner sphere even knew of their existance.


2. suposedly superior troops. Bred to wage war, with superior genes.


3. Far more advanced technology. Everything that the clans had was superior to the inner sphere version, and had technologies lost to them.


So how exactly did they survive that first war?

The Germans had all that too, and still got whupped for pretty much the same reasons.


Also,

[Valaska]

They did, then Tukayyid happened.

[Arkhangel]

John Kerensky, on 01 July 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

You are a fool who does not even know his own Clan's Remembrance.



Tyra and her warriors fought
Like crazed demons above Radstadt.
When her fighter crippled by ours,
And her life leaked away into the endless night,
She chose to die
And sent her fighter like a spear
Through the Dire Wolf, claiming as isorla
Our mighty ilKhan's life. Sing of our loss, warriors!
Sing, but of Tyra also
For though an enemy, her courage none can deny.

-- The Remembrance of Clan Wolf, Passage 294, Verse 8, Lines 24-33

Seyla.

Well said. the fact was, Tyra knew she wasn't going to survive, but also knew she needed to save the lives of her friends and fellow pilots, as well as her prince. Crashing her Shilone into the Bridge of the WarShip Dire Wolf (believe that's right) did all of that. that one claims he's a Wolf, but he speaks like a Smoke Jaguar.

[The Helepolis]

Riffleman, on 01 July 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

To those who know the lore, how did this work. How did the inner sphere manage to hold on? Did they outnumber the clans in general? The clans had huge advantages:

1. Suprise. Struck hard and fast before the inner sphere even knew of their existance.

2. suposedly superior troops. Bred to wage war, with superior genes.

3. Far more advanced technology. Everything that the clans had was superior to the inner sphere version, and had technologies lost to them.

So how exactly did they survive that first war?

IS Didn't like rules or numbered "advantages" no matter how FUBAR the situation, a dead clanner is a good clanner.

[Thoman Coston]

As already mentioned repeatedly in this thread:

- Logistics

Clan logistics is the main reason they failed. Their supply line was utterly pathetic. The only reason the invasion could go on all the way to Tukayyid was because Clan Diamond Shark merchant caste rigorously supported the invading clans using their huge merchant fleets full of supplies. CDS became filthy rich during the invasion


The real reason why the authors make the Clans invade with ridiculous strategy (only 5 clans..seriously how stupid) and obviously failing logistics is because if the Clans were successful, then there would not be any Battletech stories anymore . Thus the clans simply have to fail in the invasion, to keep the balance of all factions in BT Universe: The Clans, The IS, The Periphery, Mercs and Pirates.

Imagine, the Clans invading in unison with the Ilkhan leading a well planned invasion supported by solid logistics. The Clans would have steam rolled the IS and liberated the whole IS plus Terra. Then the Clans would have resurrected Star League on Terra. The whole IS would have been absorbed into the Clans bringing enlightenment into the IS, liberating the people from the shackles of barbaric houses and elevating them into clan citizens.
Peace for the next 1000 years..The End.
No more stories to be written by the authors -> boring

Edited by Taigen, 10 August 2012 - 02:06 AM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Taigen, on 10 August 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Imagine, the Clans invading in unison with the Ilkhan leading a well planned invasion supported by solid logistics. The Clans would have steam rolled the IS and liberated the whole IS plus Terra. Then the Clans would have resurrected Star League on Terra. The whole IS would have been absorbed into the Clans bringing enlightenment into the IS, liberating the people from the shackles of barbaric houses and elevating them into clan citizens.
Peace for the next 1000 years..The End.
No more stories to be written by the authors -> boring

sounds pretty much what the jihad was...only their enlightenment was nuclear detonations and technocracy. If anything the clans should have succeeded in their drive to Terra. It would have given a reason for Liao and Marik to jump onboard as direct combatants. Then the Combine and the FedCom would cinch off the invasion corridor

OR

clans take Terra, keep their holdings, attempt to invade all houses results in more war and all houses fighting holding actions/ border skirmishes which would also have kept the storyline going.

[Thoman Coston]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 10 August 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

sounds pretty much what the jihad was...only their enlightenment was nuclear detonations and technocracy. If anything the clans should have succeeded in their drive to Terra. It would have given a reason for Liao and Marik to jump onboard as direct combatants. Then the Combine and the FedCom would cinch off the invasion corridor

OR

clans take Terra, keep their holdings, attempt to invade all houses results in more war and all houses fighting holding actions/ border skirmishes which would also have kept the storyline going.

Not for long, don't forget the southern periphery. They do not like the IS, some even have old grudge thanks to the massacre on civilians committed by IS troops in the war IS vs Periphery when IS tried to invade periphery. The Periphery would attack the backyard of Marik and Liao the moment they are busy with Clans. In CBT, Marian Hegemony, one of the strongest Periphery states refused to help IS to fight the clans, his reply was "The IS got what they deserved". That already shows their sentiment very clearly.

Then the story ends. Bandit caste style border skirmishes won't be interesting story material. Also don't forget the fan rage , no author can risk that. IS and Clan are both loved and integral part of the CBT Universe, neither side can be conquered and eliminated by one or the other. without killing the story universe.

[Sephlock]

On the other hands, they have rockets, so its all cool.

Also, didn't at least some of the Clans get pooped upon?

Edited by Sephlock, 11 August 2012 - 02:23 AM.

[Capp]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this so far... because I don't feel like reading all 15 pages. heh

It wasn't an invasion, it was a contest. A race. A race to Terra.

The Clan that captured Terra would be the IlClan, the Clan of all Clans.

Then the real invasion would begin.

"For the day will come and our kin will stand
On Terra's firm soil, ready to rebuild
The Star League with their hearts and hands.
But who shall lead? Upon whose shoulders
Will the burden lie? The answer is the test;
The test is the journey. Whichever Clan
Carves its way through the barbarians
To reach that fabled cradle of us all
Shall be the vehicle of the League's rebirth. Upon
The Star League throne shall sit that Clan's
Wisest Khan. So should it be -- So shall it be."
-- The Remembrance, Passage 72, Verse 22, Lines 14-24

[Naglinator]

George Lucas effect. Writers can't have the galaxy taken over so they write cheap plots which make the Clans lose. Jagaurs have more Warships then the IS combined and no problem using them, yet they are absent during operation bulldog. Kinda like ewoks taken down the "emperors best legion" on Endor

[Stormwolf]

Naglinator, on 11 August 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

George Lucas effect. Writers can't have the galaxy taken over so they write cheap plots which make the Clans lose. Jagaurs have more Warships then the IS combined and no problem using them, yet they are absent during operation bulldog. Kinda like ewoks taken down the "emperors best legion" on Endor

You think that's bad? How about this:

Edited by Stormwolf, 11 August 2012 - 05:31 AM.

[Garuss Acine]

Not all clans underestimated the IS, the Star Adders are a very good example of a Crusader that recoginized the threat the IS was, and just how difficult they would be.

Quote

The Star Adders supported the Dragoon Compromise and studied their reports carefully. They spent less time politicking than other Crusaders and more time training for the return. When Operation Revival was being planned the Star Adders (uniquely among Crusaders) urged caution and bid in a manner that reflected their awareness of how difficult conquering the Inner Sphere would be. Their conservative bidding cost them their place in Operation Revival.

1

They were also one of the few Clans to win at the battle of Tukayyid(a rather crushing victory at that).

Quote

The Star Adders were tasked with holding a region of swamp from the First Free World Guards. Khan N'Buta lured the Guards into a trap and quickly rolled up the Guards flank. The Guards capitulated within thirty minutes.

2

I have no doubt there were other clans like this, not in the same way, but as has been pointed out. It was the clan's style of bidding that cost them their chance at complete victory, and let the setting develop more.


Sources:
1: http://www.sarna.net...Clan_Star_Adder

2: http://users.anet.co...er/sa-lore.html 'Death of a Clan'

[KaptKirk]

Blood of Kerensky Omnibus,,..I have reread it many times and I would say Ulric had a lot to do with the epic fail of the Clans.he had a plan and it worked.

Edited by KaptKirk, 11 August 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[pnaksone]

We have to look at one fact that caused the clans to jumped in to the fight fast. The IS was beginning to rediscover star league tech. Before the invasion they where with reach at knowledge if not application equal to the the star league. In another couple decades they may have been able to go beyond the SL. The only thing that was really causing problems was the state of much of manufacturing in the IS that baddy need refitting, repair, and upgrading before it could really start cranking out SL level tech.

As good as the clans scientists are they could not match the numbers and diversity of scientists of the smallest IS nation let alone the entire IS. With numbers and cross pollination of research things can get done quickly. The clans tended to focus mainly on tech that had obvious military applications. They forgot that sometimes the tech application you end up with is not the one you where looking for at the start.

[PaintedWolf]

BlackAbbot, on 02 July 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

It's pretty simple really, the Clans made two classic blunders;
The most obvious was fighting a land war in Asia, but only slightly less blatant was going up against a Sicilian when death was on the line!

Keep in mind the Sicilian who made such a statement died. Things do change, especially with new technology. With Drones, we can win a land war with anyone because we don't have to send any soldiers at all.

And in 3145 the Clans can win because they have now controlled hundreds of worlds for almost a century instead of a couple dozen when they first invaded. They now have more experience assimilating Inner Sphere cultures and dealing with Inner Sphere armies, strategies, tactics and politics.

[Jim Stark]

Infighting among themselves. When it was not the case, each clans fighting for themselves first and going into fighting under strenght just to get first dib on specific objectives and share of the loot.

IS and Comstar recognised they could not win on multiple smaller engagement where one or two clan could coordinate their assault, so they commited everything on a single large engagement. The clans inability to support each others was their downfall.

[Lee Ving]

Sephlock, on 08 August 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Pfft, Kodiak clearly kept ammo in torso - noob.

Mad Dog didn't even try to torso twist - noob.

Mad Cat actually stopped so that he could get headshotted - side of extra nub sauce.

Who let the Sibkin assault Tukkayid?

PaintedWolf, on 15 April 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

And in 3145 the Clans can win because they have now controlled hundreds of worlds for almost a century instead of a couple dozen when they first invaded. They now have more experience assimilating Inner Sphere cultures and dealing with Inner Sphere armies, strategies, tactics and politics.

Except in 3145 "the Clans" are split between Warden, Crusader, and Defunct.

IS has caught up in most technological regards, and surpassed in others.

tl;dr tubbies blew their load and won't get another one (unless wizard space magic because lolHPGblackout).

Edited by Lee Ving, 15 April 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Ashnod]

Mainly has to do with the clans under bidding(cutting back in forces in order to have the rights to be one of the first to land) on tukayyid and losing the trial for terra and getting themselves a 10 year truce.. If only their honor and way of battle didn't cut them short in numbers.