193 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 10 April 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Both are overpowered though. Just because the Madcat is more overpowered doesnt make the Stalker fine. They both need to be beat down with the nerf stick.

That's like saying we should take a 23 oz Filet Mignon, cooked to perfection, and throw it in the microwave for 5 minutes.

That is ruining perfection.

'Tis a sin.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 10 April 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

I personally enjoyed MW4's hardpoints system over current MWO system, and the MW2 and MW3 systems. There is something fundamentally wrong IMO, for a Stalker--a mech known for its mix of weapon systems--to boat 6 LLasers.

It is gonna keep biting PGI in the ass as long as people spam AC20/Gauss into machine gun slots, and LPLs in small laser slots.

I think you've forgotten how hardpoints existed in that game.

Tri-Gauss with 4 ERLL Direwolves

Gladiator/Executioners with multiple ERPPCs (I think 3, but I could be wrong) with Gauss.

Even the Catapult, you could fit 3 ERLL with probably a pair of LRM15s (or something along those lines).

Building mechs that could use large weapons was actually more commonplace. The weapon balance however was at least attempted and arguably is better there than it is in MWO.

Edited by Deathlike, 10 April 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Bacl, on 10 April 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

Hell during the first year of beta when they used the actual TT numbers and didnt buff the PPC, the game was the most balanced it ever was.

No, no it wasn't. It wasn't even close.

Laying aside the hit registration, SRM over-splash issues, and such; does nobody else remember the 9sl hunchback moving at approx 115kph? The MPL boat Awesomes that would strip a side torso in 2 shots on an atlas, while moving at medium mech speeds?

[Felicitatem Parco]

The 6LL Stalker got big quirks because it was the worst Stalker and wasn't even worth being in the game. Look at the base stats and hard points - you'll see the N varient is worthless next to other stalkers, except for its quirks. Frakley, that variant has no place in the game, given the other variants' existence.

[LordBraxton]

Don't poke fight a stalker. The STK isn't your problem, the TERRIBLE design of CW is the issue. BeefSTKs are fodder in a brawl. Even my grasshopper rips STKs up in the 50-250m bracket

[Novawrecker]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

TT has something that we here don't.

Arms that actually WORK!

WhuchaTalkingAboutWillis? My Atlas' arms work just FINE as shields

[Richter Kerensky]

Khobai, on 10 April 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

I understand why mechs with great hit boxes are getting quirks.

What I dont understand is why those quirks have nothing to do with the stock loadouts. Quirks should reward you for running the stock loadout of the mech. Quirks should not reward you for running meta builds.

Huh? That makes no sense at all and isn't the stated purpose of quirks. Unless you gave machine guns or flamers a +1000% damage increase quirk, they will never be worth using, but there are mechs with Machine Guns in their stock loadouts. They're intended to make IS mechs competitive with Clan mechs by making IS weapons perform better than their base stats because the Clan weapons' base stats are all better than the IS's by default.

[Novawrecker]

Khobai, on 10 April 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

What I dont understand is why those quirks have nothing to do with the stock loadouts.

In a game where all sorts of customization levels is permitted, 'stock loadouts' is mainly irrelevant.

[Gas Guzzler]

Richter Kerensky, on 10 April 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Huh? That makes no sense at all and isn't the stated purpose of quirks. Unless you gave machine guns or flamers a +1000% damage increase quirk, they will never be worth using, but there are mechs with Machine Guns in their stock loadouts. They're intended to make IS mechs competitive with Clan mechs by making IS weapons perform better than their base stats because the Clan weapons' base stats are all better than the IS's by default.

Hey, if Khobai wants serious, good Gauss rifle and PPC quirks on the Dragon Slayer, I say let him have them. Afterall, the stock DS has a PPC and a Gauss. Begrudgingly, I would accept those quirks with a heavy heart.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 10 April 2015 - 03:08 PM.

[lsp]

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 10 April 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

I think you've forgotten how hardpoints existed in that game.

Tri-Gauss with 4 ERLL Direwolves

Gladiator/Executioners with multiple ERPPCs (I think 3, but I could be wrong) with Gauss.

Even the Catapult, you could fit 3 ERLL with probably a pair of LRM15s (or something along those lines).

Building mechs that could use large weapons was actually more commonplace. The weapon balance however was at least attempted and arguably is better there than it is in MWO.

That's all matters. It simply shows the need for reform in this game when multiplayer-only MWO is having more balance issue than that of MW4. Refine and adapt MW4's sized hardpoint system, and mate with MWO's duration based lasers. (cause MW4's FLD lasers were OP)

Dual Gauss Whales with CERLLs in this game is much more manageable than that of dual Gauss + CERPPCs. Even Executioners--which were one of the best cheese mechs in MW4--will perform way less under MWO's omni-mech restriction. I am not concerned about those two becoming more powerful under sized hardpoint system.

Novawrecker, on 10 April 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

In a game where all sorts of customization levels is permitted, 'stock loadouts' is mainly irrelevant.

Yet PGI prefers to push for stock quirks, if you take a look at them.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 April 2015 - 04:39 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 10 April 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

That's all matters. It simply shows the need for reform in this game when multiplayer-only MWO is having more balance issue than that of MW4. Refine and adapt MW4's sized hardpoint system, and mate with MWO's duration based lasers. (cause MW4's FLD lasers were OP)

I hate using MW4 as a reference, but if PGI ever adapted anything from MW4.. it would be a first.

This includes long cooldowns for high damage weapons.

Streaks/LRMs/LBX that didn't suck.

Actual heat penalties, like not being able to go max speed when overheating or HUD effects.

It's all freaking Lostech. I gave up on thinking this would be possible, so it's just easier to classify as such. It's not hard to copy working concepts from older games... just as long as it is implemented well.

Quote

Dual Gauss Whales with CERLLs in this game is much more manageable than that of dual Gauss + CERPPCs. Even Executioners--which were one of the best cheese mechs in MW4--will perform way less under MWO's omni-mech restriction. I am not concerned about those two becoming more powerful under sized hardpoint system.

Technically you can actually build that stuff in this game, and still clean house. Although, I haven't paid attention to the supplementary weapons that the Tri-Gauss Direwolves in this games can do.

[NKAc Street]

The noob is strong with this one. However don't put it past the noobs at PGI to listen.

[R Razor]

Sorbic, on 10 April 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Just because it can fight back doesn't mean it's op. Close the gap, kill it dead.

I think my favorite thing about clanners calling for nerfs on this long(ish) range mech is how they had said that their extra range was of no real advantage in CW because all of the fighting was up close. That is until we see an IS that can keep up from a distance.

Ahh but they did the same thing with the TDR 9S..........range isn't important (as long as they have it) in CW but when faced with equal firepower at a given distance they cry like scalded children.

[Novawrecker]

El Bandito, on 10 April 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

Yet PGI prefers to push for stock quirks, if you take a look at them.

Yet, this doesn't stop players from utilizing mechs in a fashion that at times, moves away from specific weapon quirks.

Want a perfect example? TDR-5SS, which is quirked heavily toward Med. Pulse lasers, yet there are many that run 4 ERLL and is one of the nastiest energy snipers IS has amongst its repetoire.

Want another? JM6-S, which is quirked for AC 2s & 5s, yet it's popular build is based soley on Gauss Rifles.

I can name more, but I hope you got the gist. This game has too many levels of customization. Stock builds are irrelevant.

Edited by Novawrecker, 11 April 2015 - 12:45 AM.

[XphR]

I feel it may be time to reengine my 2x2x2 PPC Stalker Hexstatic.

[oldradagast]

Alienized, on 10 April 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

also, boating single weapon systems needs to be reduced massively.

Nope.

First, this is a real-time game with real-time aiming via typically a mouse with a buttons. People are naturally going to try to reduce the number of different buttons, ranges, projectile speeds they have to worry about, so players will ALWAYS boat if at all possible. Now, one can argue that the game has too much pin-point damage or too few useful weapons, but whatever works will be boated, by definition.

For folks who feel otherwise, I encourage you to read up on the Dreadnought battleship. This warship literally changed the way big gun boats were designed and built and instantly obsoleted all previous designs when it entered service. Not only was it faster and better designed overall than the competition, but it also "boated" a single size high-caliber gun. Previous warships took the "mixed bag" approach to main firepower, while the Dreadnought simply boated one main type of weapon, which made it easier to puts shots on target.

So, even in real life, "boating" works... heck, it wouldn't surprise me if battleships were the origin of the term "boating weapons," and the Dreadnought was the first of that kind.

[Joseph Mallan]

Novawrecker, on 10 April 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

WhuchaTalkingAboutWillis? My Atlas' arms work just FINE as shields

I would applaud your humor. But the lack of working arm actuators will not allow me to do so.

[Alienized]

well because... boats are boats. they are slow. not maneuverable enuff. guess why we dont have battleships as of WW2-era anymore. because they are too limited, fragile and slow.

[Joseph Mallan]

I saw one of these Laser Stalkers last night.

I like what I saw. An Assault mech the demanded respect once it started shoot players.