43 replies to this topic

[DefinitelyNotMwHighlander]

So, there is something very, VERY important missing from the game.


Defensive equipment. Here is a very rough but simple interpretation of a small list of equipment that could drastically alter the game by making it much more interesting and greatly increase overall TTK [time to kill]. There are a lot of weapon suggestions I would like to make, but for sake of relevancy, I am sticking with defensive orientated equipment.

The ultimate purpose of these suggestions is to change the game by having players spend more tonnage on defensive equipment rather than all out offense that the game is currently in. With more effective defensive gear and players spending significantly more tonnage on said equipment, the less overall firepower on the field that becomes available. This however does not stop players from building all out offense oriented mechs, but gives way to a new play style that many players feel is currently lacking entirely. Slow more methodical slug fests that were experienced in 8v8.

I'm also aware of timeline, but nothing post 3068+, try to keep with things within 3040-3058
Non-verbatim TT Interpretation:

Hardened Armor
-Available IS

-Reduce Max Speed by 12%
-Reduce Torso Twist speed 5%
-Turn Radius Speed reduce 5%
-Reduce Acceleration 5%
-20 armor points per ton (TT says 8 instead of 16, which translate to 16 instead of 32)
-Damage taken to armor reduced by half

Reflective Armor
-Available IS / Clan mechs

-Requires 10 Critical slots (IS is dynamic, Clan is fixed depending on mech)
-24 armor points per ton (TT claims same as per ton as standard, which would be OP)
-50% reduction of all energy weapons damage to armor
-100% increased fall damage and collision damage (TT describes it as brittle)

Reactive Armor
-Available IS / Clan mechs

-Requires 10 Critical slots (same as Reflective, TT Also claims to take up 14)
-24 armor points per ton (TT claims same as per ton as standard, which would be OP)
-50% reduction of all artillery and missile damage to armor

Torso Mounted Cockpit
-Available IS

-Increased overheat Damage by 25% (TT claims pilots takes damage on overheating)
-Frees 4 crits in Head
-Removes Death by headshot
-Adds 1 fixed sensor critical to each side torso
-Cockpit and life support crit moved to CT
-Weighs 2 tons (TT claims 4 tons)

IFF Jammer (MW4 creation, but neat idea sorta like a mini ECM)
-Available IS / Clan

- 1 ton
- 1 Crit
- Decreases target info gathering 100% (doubles the time)
- No Hit Marker shown outside of 200m on weapon hits
- HUD and Mini Map confuses Friendly Blue or Enemy Red "magic dorito" outside 400m
- HUD recognizes blue or red "magic dorito" correctly if any friendly is targeting within 200m
- Countered by BAP, BAP can properly detect correct IFF

IS C.A.S.E (rework to be useful)
-Available IS (sorry clan, but your case is 100% crit and tonnage free in ANY location)

-Able to be mounted in any torso / head (max 1 per location)
- 0.5 tons
- 1 crit
- Ammo, equipment and weapons gain +5 hp in this location
- Location mounted with CASE gains +5 internal hitpoints
- Ammo protected by case in same location still prevent proliferating ammo damage to adjacent locations


Blue Shield Particle Dampener
-Available IS / Clan mechs

-7 fixed criticals (1 each location minus head)
-3 tons
-7 Hitpoints (instead of standard 10)
-While active, reduces all PPC family weapons by 50%
-Lasts 120 seconds (may be deactivated after a 10 second delay between on/off)
-Fails automatically after duration times out or if two criticals are destroyed (TT states fail at 1)
-Location of destroyed critical while active receives 5 damage to location, similar to ammo explosion

Laser AMS
-Available Clan

-100m range
-3 heat per second while active, per Laser AMS
-1 crit
-1.5 tons
"Lasers don't use ammo"


"Non"-Angel ECM (basic Guardian ECM)
-Available IS / Clan mechs

-1.5 tons IS / 1 ton clan
-reduce enemy missile lock-on time by 15%
-reduce enemy info gathering by 25%
-Only protects you
-Does not cause "Low Signal" within close range
-Disruptable by Counter ECM / BAP / PPC splash / TAG
-Removes "Magic Dorito" outside 500m
-Prevents Target sharing by enemy mechs when outside 500m
-Enemy mech with BAP can detect "magic dorito" up to 625m and share target info
-Cannot switch to counter mode
-Compatible with BAP (unlike current ECM)
-Not compatible with current "Angel" ECM

Flamer
-Available IS / Clan mechs

Lets change this to be a useful defensive weapon meant to slow down enemy abilty to deliver damage.

-1 critical
-1 ton IS / 0.5 tons Clan
-Range 200m (no damage outside 200m range)
-Velocity (600m/s)
-Damage 3 (front loaded single shot)
-Heat Damage 4.5
-Heat 5
-Ghost heat limit of 6 (because "heat Scale is still a thing, idk)
-Cooldown 4.5 seconds

Compact Gyro
-Available IS

Because of the new way engine tonnages are calculated in MWO, a new calculation to tonnage cost is needed, something simple and straightforward. Applies only to standard engines

-Frees 1 crticial in CT
-10% increased weight of engine, rounded up to nearest half (i.e. std 100 = .5 tons, std 400 = 6 tons)
-25% increased CT internal hitpoints rounded up (i.e. Atlas = 16 hp, Jenner = 5hp)



Edit: Thank you those who pointed out that I meant INCREASE time to kill, not reduce XD

Edited by DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, 10 April 2015 - 01:13 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I like the concept of these ideas. I didn't run the numbers, because I'm not informed enough about all the actual bones of this game, even if I have a great practical and lore-based knowledge.

+1

[STEF_]

Reduce TTK?

Did I read it well?

SO, you want an instant kill, or an instant death..... right?

Just pointing out that we need to INCREASE TTK, not reduce

[Quxudica]

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

So, there is something very, VERY important missing from the game.


Defensive equipment. Here is a very rough but simple interpretation of a small list of equipment that could drastically alter the game by making it much more interesting and reduce overall TTK [time to kill]. There are a lot of weapon suggestions I would like to make, but for sake of relevancy, I am sticking with defensive orientated equipment.

The ultimate purpose of these suggestions is to change the game by having players spend more tonnage on defensive equipment rather than all out offense that the game is currently in. With more effective defensive gear and players spending significantly more tonnage on said equipment, the less overall firepower on the field that becomes available. This however does not stop players from building all out offense oriented mechs, but gives way to a new play style that many players feel is currently lacking entirely. Slow more methodical slug fests that were experienced in 8v8.

snip

I still think a redesign of the heat system and changing convergence are the best options, anything else is a bandaid likely to either suffer diminishing effectiveness as power continues to creep or introduce new problems like Ghost Heat and the jump jet nerfs did.

That said, I don't mind these ideas. I really want MWO to move toward something more interesting than the arcade shooter it's gradually turned into. I want to see more interesting build options that don't focus on dealing damage. There are many other things we could be adding to our mechs that aren't weapons, and the game could be so much more interesting if it fleshed that aspect out.

Also for the sake of being pedantic, you meant "increase TTK".

oops, ninja'd..

Edited by Quxudica, 09 April 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Add dynamic precision reduction, based on heat, throttle %, and stability state (jumping, received impulse, etc.). Moving at a high throttle setting, running very hot, jumping around, etc., will all cause your shots to deviate around your aim point based on how much and how many of those things you are doing.

Increase weapon cooldown periods by between 0.5s and 2.0s, depending on the weapon.

Fix heat capacity at 30 and increase SHS to 0.15 heat/second and DHS both in engine and out of engine to 0.3 heat/second (and expect to scale values from there, as needed).

Remove armor based on tonnage. Make armor instead scale based on stock values, plus 3 tons (iterate from this value; if it's low, bump it up gradually until you find the sweet spot). This makes mechs that have fewer hardpoints because they sacrifice weapons for armor better, while offering another way for variants to differentiate each other.

[RAM]

Presuming INCREASING TTK...

(Convergence)
Reticule 'Bounce' (to wit: 3PV)
Proper Heat Effects
Proper Cyclic Times (or at least decrease the invented recycle times currently being used)
Further increase Amour/Structure (maintain ammo increase ratio)


RAM
ELH

[Egomane]

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Hardened Armor

Prototype technology. Not in greater scale production before 3090.

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Reflective Armor

Not even in prototype state yet. Enters Production 3080+.

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Reactive Armor

Development in 3063. Production in 3080+

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Torso Mounted Cockpit

Prototype technology, still in development. First mech being equiped with one appears in 3055 on Solaris.

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Blue Shield Particle Dampener

In development. Prototype is not produced before 3053. Widespread use not before the Jihad timeline.

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Laser AMS

Available for Clans in the current timeline. Might be worth a look.

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 09 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Compact Gyro

Not before 3068.

Most of those suggestions are so far away in the future, that a lot of tech comes before them. Some are not even in development yet and others have not yet produced a workable prototype.

Quxudica, on 09 April 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

That said, I don't mind these ideas. I really want MWO to move toward something more interesting than the arcade shooter it's gradually turned into.

Adding more equipment options won't change that. All it does, is giving you more options to play with, but it will not change the actual gameplay by much. Instead of adding more glimmer, a change to some game mechanisms would be needed, if you want the game to have more depth.

[Myfriendscallmecoach]

I really like these ideas posted and i think it will definitely add depth to the game. Ive been wondering when different types of armor would be added. I think not only will it help the TTK issue, but may have profound positive effects on other various aspects of the game.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Ah, I let MW4 mektek memories (don't judge me!) get the best of me and forgot about lore.

Really, that would probably be a game-breaker for me. Call me a turbonerd, but BT fans are also a very large contributor to this game's finances. The relatively successful now 30-40 year old BT fans with disposable income seem to make up most of the cashflow, IMO.

There must be a good solution that pleases both lore-hounds and others!

[MW Waldorf Statler]

we have small maps, so the games are over quickly, because you will surely introduce anything that brings this up to the maximum of the 15 minutes in duration

[Quxudica]

Egomane, on 09 April 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

Adding more equipment options won't change that. All it does, is giving you more options to play with, but it will not change the actual gameplay by much. Instead of adding more glimmer, a change to some game mechanisms would be needed, if you want the game to have more depth.

It's part and parcel of the overall solution. The bigger components are the desperately needed redesign of the heat system and possible convergence changes yes. But adding more equipment for us to take on our mechs that is good enough to really offer compelling choices between it and yet another weapon will also help us move away from the current issues.

Right now there are really next to no build considerations that don't revolve around firepower. Support equipment is laughable in it's functional depth, nearly universally equipable by the vast majority of chassis and depressingly sparse in available options. Pretty much every mech is built like an assault, focused on the largest alpha its heat can support, partially because there are no other choices to be made. You introduce compelling new equipment that we need to sacrifice weight and criticals for and you start to drive builds away from being one or two button alphastrike wonders.

For example, imagine if Strikes and UAV's were equipment instead of magical cards we pull out of our mechs rear ends. Imagine if that equipment was restricted to mech variants that fall into either the scout or command roles. Now two roles with little to no defined meat on them suddenly have useful tools specific to their kit, tools compelling enough to really consider dropping a medium laser for. Simultaneously this offers the possibility of increasing the potency of these tools (now that not every single mech can take them with zero trade off) and increasing the depth of their functionality. Maybe a scout has to paint a target area with a TAG like laser for x seconds before the strike triggers, or the command mech has to use his Command Console to designate a grid on the map to be bombed but the resulting strikes are stronger or more accurate.


So yes more equipment alone won't solve the issue, but the lack of real choices to be made during mech construction is a contributing factor to the games combat issues. There just isn't enough to do with our Mech's that isn't directly related to dealing damage.

[xImmortalx]

LAMS, Reactive and Reflective would be excellent to have. I wouldn't mind having those 3 tomorrow and this option needs to be looked at long before ghost heat part tw convergence.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Just lower RoF globally, by 25%.

[Insects]

Just multiply armor capacity by 5 on everything. Ammo capacity too. (ie more for same weight and space).
Who cares about lore, lore is already ignored so just ignore it a little more.

[Joseph Mallan]

When did they remove the double damage from ballistic attacks for Reflective Armor?

[ROSS-128]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

When did they remove the double damage from ballistic attacks for Reflective Armor?

They didn't as far as I know, and reactive armor is supposed to take double damage from lasers too. I think OP just forgot their tradeoff was supposed to be "resistant to one, weak to the other".

Otherwise there'd be no reason not to take them.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Some interesting ideas, though as others have pointed out they break the time line substantially.

That being said, I'd love to be able to equip my Atlas with hardened armour and a compact gyro unit. Unkillable Atlas of Doom!!!

[Telmasa]

Basically speaking I'd like to see all the things you mentioned that were in MW:4.

Especially the non-Angel ECM. If they did that & removed consumable gimmicky from the game...god it would be so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, SO much better, balanced, and fun.

[Almond Brown]

joelmuzz, on 10 April 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

Just multiply armor capacity by 5 on everything. Ammo capacity too. (ie more for same weight and space).
Who cares about lore, lore is already ignored so just ignore it a little more.

Why cancel out one with the other? We need more weight to be consumed (if that is the tact taken) for same or less, thus forcing the Mechs to carry more, non-weapons based "stuff".

What PGI needs to do is build 1 HUGE Map (flat and wide open like everyone wants (maybe even make it so only Assault\Conquest Modes are available) and put it on the TEST Server for 2 weeks and let folks see what happens when the 48kph slogging Alpha Kings of the Heavy and Assault class become almost instantly totally useless.

Just give the TEST Server some of the really stupid **** (settings) folks make up and finally shut them up once and for all. Nothing like seeing to believe right?

Come on PGI, open the Test Server and let the Community shut itself up.

[Almond Brown]

E Rommel, on 10 April 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

They didn't as far as I know, and reactive armor is supposed to take double damage from lasers too. I think OP just forgot their tradeoff was supposed to be "resistant to one, weak to the other".

Otherwise there'd be no reason not to take them.

Well they would put the "Meta" on a seesaw. First up, Reflective for all. 3,500,000 to put on, 1,750,000 to take off. Next week Reactive for ALL. 2,750,000 to put on, 1,375,000 to take off. Next Reflective for all, again. LOL!

The resultant "Whining" would be GLORIOUS.

Telmasa, on 10 April 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

Basically speaking I'd like to see all the things you mentioned that were in MW:4.

Especially the non-Angel ECM. If they did that & removed consumable gimmicky from the game...god it would be so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, SO much better, balanced, and fun.

What! You don't like UAV's?

Edited by Almond Brown, 10 April 2015 - 08:51 AM.