46 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

Oke, i just wondering what kind of drugs you need to take
to make it 6 ton.. i mean 6 TON man for 2 Damage 9 Ton cost a UAC5 what's superior in all ways.

if they like to balance AC2 it must not weight more then 3,5 TON MAX.

[Escef]

Weapon weights and critical slots are derived directly from table top Battletech. If you think PGI is going to fiddle with those numbers than you are out of your mind.

[Alistair Winter]

Or they could just buff the AC2 and reduce its heat significantly, since the whole point of ballistics in MWO is to sacrifice infinite ammunition and instant damage for low heat. And then even medium mechs would be able to use AC2s to achieve synergy between cool ballistics and hot energy weapons.

And while they're at it, increase AC2 ammo count so Blackjacks can actually use AC2s instead of AC20s.

I know, I know. Totally crazy. Absolute nonsense. I guess we'll find a use for the AC2 in PVE eventually, along with the MG and Flamer.

[Abisha]

Escef, on 11 April 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

Weapon weights and critical slots are derived directly from table top Battletech. If you think PGI is going to fiddle with those numbers than you are out of your mind.

that makes zero sense.
in the battletech their is no ghost heat, but their is here.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Abisha, on 11 April 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

Oke, i just wondering what kind of drugs you need to take
to make it 6 ton.. i mean 6 TON man for 2 Damage 9 Ton cost a UAC5 what's superior in all ways.

if they like to balance AC2 it must not weight more then 3,5 TON MAX.

[MechaBattler]

Alistair Winter, on 11 April 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

Or they could just buff the AC2 and reduce its heat significantly, since the whole point of ballistics in MWO is to sacrifice infinite ammunition and instant damage for low heat. And then even medium mechs would be able to use AC2s to achieve synergy between cool ballistics and hot energy weapons.

And while they're at it, increase AC2 ammo count so Blackjacks can actually use AC2s instead of AC20s.

I know, I know. Totally crazy. Absolute nonsense. I guess we'll find a use for the AC2 in PVE eventually, along with the MG and Flamer.

It is quite the FU to lower tonnage mechs that could use a lightweight ballistic, but can't, because it generates too much heat alongside their lightweight medium lasers.

[TwentyOne]

It doesn't matter what TT says, If something is so awful that no one uses it, why spend the time putting it in the game? All weapons deserve equal opportunities to not be terrible. Being more limited in weapon choices makes the game objectively worse.

[Escef]

Abisha, on 11 April 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

that makes zero sense.
in the battletech their is no ghost heat, but their is here.

Ghost heat doesn't make canon mechs have unused tonnage.

[DefinitelyNotMwHighlander]

Well, in a couple years there is another branch in the IS Autocannon family called the "Light Autocanons" Actuaully they are prototyped in 3050! So technically they ARE available! They trade tonnage for less range. Paired with "Caseless Ammunition" they are incredibly good for Light IS mechs. (Caseless ammo is twice ammo per ton, but weapon can jam if fired continuously every turn).

Light AC2
-4 tons
-1 crit
-2 damage
-1 heat
-540m range

Light AC5
-5 tons
-Crits 2 (!!!!)
-5 damage
-1 heat
-450m range

[Mirumoto Izanami]

TwentyOne, on 11 April 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

It doesn't matter what TT says, If something is so awful that no one uses it, why spend the time putting it in the game? All weapons deserve equal opportunities to not be terrible. Being more limited in weapon choices makes the game objectively worse.

The problem with the AC 2 is not the weight, but the heat. 1 heat for 2 damage on a 6 ton weapon is horrible. Alistair has the right of it: the heat needs to at least be halved (same for clan ACs in the 2 category).

If you want the AC2 to be weight reduced so it can be a ballistic mounted on lights with multiple ballistic hardpoints, you're looking for the wrong answer. Machine guns are supposed to be the ballistics de jour for lights, but PGI has done a horrible job implementing them in this game. (For reference, Machine guns are supposed to have the same DPS as AC2s, just at a much, MUCH, MUCH shorter range).

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 11 April 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[Matthew Ace]

Giving them back their prenerf heat (0.6) and cooldown (0.52ish) will do a lot to make them adequately useful again.

Personally, I would also love to see even higher ranges (with velocity to go along), as range have somewhat less effect on combat past a certain bracket. 900m/1800m sounds good. (Clan equivalents gets same benefit).

[Abisha]

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 11 April 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

Well, in a couple years there is another branch in the IS Autocannon family called the "Light Autocanons" Actuaully they are prototyped in 3050! So technically they ARE available! They trade tonnage for less range. Paired with "Caseless Ammunition" they are incredibly good for Light IS mechs. (Caseless ammo is twice ammo per ton, but weapon can jam if fired continuously every turn).

Light AC2
-4 tons
-1 crit
-2 damage
-1 heat
-540m range

Light AC5
-5 tons
-Crits 2 (!!!!)
-5 damage
-1 heat
-450m range

sounds like a fair weapons that fits directly in this game after the range is a little nerfed. 100 on both.

[Tahribator]

Paul repeatedly said he was happy with the AC2 being a "suppression" weapon. 6T+ammo suppression kind. Unfortunately this means it will remain an underpowered weapon.

IMO all that needs to be done is reverting the cooldown to pre-Clan 0.5s levels. That's 30% DPS increase. If the weapon proves to be "too good" then there's always the heat wild card.

[ROSS-128]

The AC2 has good DPS for its weight due to its high rate of fire (2.78 for 6 tons vs 3 for 8, it's actually slightly more efficient than the AC5).

That doesn't apply in TT of course where all the ACs have the same rate of fire. The main problem with the AC2 is it generates the same heat as the bigger, slower AC5. Meaning AC2 arrays run hot! If it wasn't for the heat, a quad AC2 BNC-3E would be a very interesting build (and it looks hilarious in the mechlab).

As far as light ACs... you mean I can put four LAC5s in my Banshee, for 4 tons less than the 3xAC5 build, and have the same optimum range as the LLs I put in the other shoulder? DO WANT.

[Burktross]

Tahribator, on 11 April 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Paul repeatedly said he was happy with the AC2 being a "suppression" weapon. 6T+ammo suppression kind. Unfortunately this means it will remain an underpowered weapon.

IMO all that needs to be done is reverting the cooldown to pre-Clan 0.5s levels. That's 30% DPS increase. If the weapon proves to be "too good" then there's always the heat wild card.

PAAAAAUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Pjwned]

The biggest issue is AC2 runs way too hot, fix that and it'll see more use.

I realize the ghost heat was removed, and that's a start, but it's not enough.

[Abisha]

Tahribator, on 11 April 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Paul repeatedly said he was happy with the AC2 being a "suppression" weapon. 6T+ammo suppression kind. Unfortunately this means it will remain an underpowered weapon.

IMO all that needs to be done is reverting the cooldown to pre-Clan 0.5s levels. That's 30% DPS increase. If the weapon proves to be "too good" then there's always the heat wild card.

ahh but we are the customers. and customers are always right.
so to bad for paul

[Tahribator]

I disagree that the AC2's problem is the heat. A 3xAC2 Shadowhawk with 12xDHS will overheat after 40 seconds of continuous fire. That's about 350 damage dished out on a normal heat map before shutdown.

The problem is surviving the 40 seconds of face time and the sheer face-time needed to apply damage. When you're doing only 2 damage per bullet at 0.72 cooldown, you never get good trades against lasers/missiles/lurms. Pretty much any combination of mid-long range weaponry outtrades AC2s, and they have the benefit of allowing torso twist between shots to spread damage. AC2s force you to stare down your target, making you an easy target to core.

In order to revitalize the AC2s, it needs its old 3+DPS back. It needs good DPS to be unbearable to trade with and the old cooldown allowed just that.

[Bubblewhip]

I think the AC2 just needs more ammo per tonne and its DPS is very close to an Ac5, but maybe it can be equal to an AC5 on grounds of pinpoint vs damage spread? Heat is also a problem on attempting to boat AC2's.

[Escef]

Abisha, on 11 April 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

ahh but we are the customers. and customers are always right.

Wow, if that isn't the battle cry of the d-bag I don't know what is.