186 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

InspectorG, on 12 April 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Yes.

Unless the arms drag on the ground like the Nova.

I would be all for reducing the agility on Heavies and Assaults. Mainly Turning rate, perhaps torso twist rate on certain chassis.
If i remember correctly, a slow assault had on average cruising speed of 3 hexes which is also about how much is needed to 'turn around'. In my bias, i would construe that it would take @ 10 seconds for a slow mech to about-face...
I would really like that, though ti would hurt brawling for heavies and assaults, perhaps it would create a role for lights and choice mediums?

WHY is it...that everyone say nerf agility on X?

Why do those same people not say..."How about we quirk light mechs with more higher torso twist rates, better turn radius, etc."?

Does it not accomplish the same thing?

Do mechs like the Atlas, KGC, and DW honestly need to be slower/twist worse/etc...?

(EDIT: Answer is no on the assault question, in case you were wondering...)

Edited by Gyrok, 14 April 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[InspectorG]

Gyrok, on 14 April 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

WHY is it...that everyone say nerf agility on X?

Why do those same people not say..."How about we quirk light mechs with more higher torso twist rates, better turn radius, etc."?

Does it not accomplish the same thing?

Do mechs like the Atlas, KGC, and DW honestly need to be slower/twist worse/etc...?

(EDIT: Answer is no on the assault question, in case you were wondering...)

Answer is yes, to create roles for lights as assault/heavy hunters. Mediums would be the light hunters.
Even as it stands now, a decent light pilot has a disadvantage vs a decent assault pilot because his ST or Leg is one good alpha from gone.
This would mitigate that. It would also force teams to think more about trades and positioning.


This way Assaults and slow heavies would have to be escorted making them the firing lane/artillery piece.

With the current meta of damage over all else, this would give lights the most role that they could have.

There is no need for recon with even the biggest maps. There is no need for anti-infantry. There is no real need for spotting.
This is why lights are in a bad place. They are hard mode 'just because'.

This way lights can flank/skirmish on the battlelines or in a full brawl. Or hunt Assaults to apply pressure. Teammates turn to help said Assault they expose their backs.

Slower turning would give the light a better chance and make teams think more on such tactical decisions.
Might also help pugs in regards to rabbit runs...but that is pure speculation.

"WHY NOT BUFF LIGHT TURN RATE"

Because you reach a spot of diminishing returns. Lights would get too 'twitchy' and piloting and aim would suffer. Similar to why people set their mouse sensitivity to low.
Locusts and Commandos are pretty damn agile. But they can still easily get hit if behind an assault.
A good assault will put his back to a wall/terrain.
If in the open a circle dance forms and with torso twist, the light can get hit.
And the problem is it only takes one good hit to cripple the light.

Nerfing the turn rate would buy 3-5 seconds if scaled to BT. If it took Assaults 8-10 seconds to about-face, positioning would be far more important.

[MechWarrior5152251]

It is pretty pathetic watching all the Clammers crying about lights being OP. I have never seen the light que exceed the other 3 classes. If its so effing OP why don't people pilot lights?

[Gyrok]

MechWarrior5152251, on 14 April 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

It is pretty pathetic watching all the Clammers crying about lights being OP. I have never seen the light que exceed the other 3 classes. If its so effing OP why don't people pilot lights?

The day the urbie dropped, light queue was 51%.

Last night, light queue was 29%, while the others were slightly less.

Lights are not really OP, but they are not at all UP either, they are just really difficult to master...

InspectorG, on 14 April 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

Answer is yes, to create roles for lights as assault/heavy hunters. Mediums would be the light hunters.
Even as it stands now, a decent light pilot has a disadvantage vs a decent assault pilot because his ST or Leg is one good alpha from gone.
This would mitigate that. It would also force teams to think more about trades and positioning.


This way Assaults and slow heavies would have to be escorted making them the firing lane/artillery piece.

With the current meta of damage over all else, this would give lights the most role that they could have.

There is no need for recon with even the biggest maps. There is no need for anti-infantry. There is no real need for spotting.
This is why lights are in a bad place. They are hard mode 'just because'.

This way lights can flank/skirmish on the battlelines or in a full brawl. Or hunt Assaults to apply pressure. Teammates turn to help said Assault they expose their backs.

Slower turning would give the light a better chance and make teams think more on such tactical decisions.
Might also help pugs in regards to rabbit runs...but that is pure speculation.

"WHY NOT BUFF LIGHT TURN RATE"

Because you reach a spot of diminishing returns. Lights would get too 'twitchy' and piloting and aim would suffer. Similar to why people set their mouse sensitivity to low.
Locusts and Commandos are pretty damn agile. But they can still easily get hit if behind an assault.
A good assault will put his back to a wall/terrain.
If in the open a circle dance forms and with torso twist, the light can get hit.
And the problem is it only takes one good hit to cripple the light.

Nerfing the turn rate would buy 3-5 seconds if scaled to BT. If it took Assaults 8-10 seconds to about-face, positioning would be far more important.

The DW has reached the point where making it any slower/less mobile would be crippling.

Buff lights agility most.

Buff mediums agility less.

Leave heavy and assault mechs alone.

[stjobe]

Gyrok, on 14 April 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

The day the urbie dropped, light queue was 51%.

The day the King Crab dropped, this was the assault queue:



Spot the difference? I'll spell it out: A (very) popular light hits and the light queue barely hits 50%. A popular assault arrives and the assault queue hits 83%.

Gyrok, on 14 April 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

Buff lights agility most.

Buff mediums agility less.

Leave heavy and assault mechs alone.

'Mechs are generally too fast and too agile. It stems from the way engine rating is coupled to everything from top speed to arm and torso twist rates - and the silly Pilot Skill system that further improves agility, and then doubles those improvements once a 'mech is elited.

This affects heavies and assaults the most, simply because they generally have bigger engines than their lighter brethren. If heavies and assaults weren't as agile as they are, lights and mediums wouldn't feel forced to mount maxed-out engines either.

It's been said several times before, but there's no target a stock Atlas can't track if it's 25 meters away or more, no matter how fast or agile that target is.

So no, buffing light and medium agility wouldn't do much, to get any appreciable result we'd actually need an across-the-board nerf to all weight classes - including lights and mediums.

Edited by stjobe, 14 April 2015 - 09:14 AM.

[Gyrok]

stjobe, on 14 April 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

The day the King Crab dropped, this was the assault queue:



Spot the difference? I'll spell it out: A (very) popular light hits and the light queue barely hits 50%. A popular assault arrives and the assault queue hits 83%.


'Mechs are generally too fast and too agile. It stems from the way engine rating is coupled to everything from top speed to arm and torso twist rates - and the silly Pilot Skill system that further improves agility, and then doubles those improvements once a 'mech is elited.

This affects heavies and assaults the most, simply because they generally have bigger engines than their lighter brethren. If heavies and assaults weren't as agile as they are, lights and mediums wouldn't feel forced to mount maxed-out engines either.

It's been said several times before, but there's no target a stock Atlas can't track if it's 25 meters away or more, no matter how fast or agile that target is.

So no, buffing light and medium agility wouldn't do much, to get any appreciable result we'd actually need an across-the-board nerf to all weight classes - including lights and mediums.

No, the mechs that pay for large engines are fast and agile proportionately to the big engines they are paying for via tonnage.

Light mechs, pay large with bigger engines proportionately more, but also emerge with considerably more agility because of higher speed ratings.

Lights should have more agility, and mediums slightly less...while heavy mechs are about right with what they currently have, and some assaults could honestly use some love...

[stjobe]

Gyrok, on 14 April 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

No, the mechs that pay for large engines are fast and agile proportionately to the big engines they are paying for via tonnage.

Light mechs, pay large with bigger engines proportionately more, but also emerge with considerably more agility because of higher speed ratings.

Lights should have more agility, and mediums slightly less...while heavy mechs are about right with what they currently have, and some assaults could honestly use some love...

No, you don't get it.

Lights are really fast and agile already. They don't need to be even faster and more agile. They need mediums, heavies, and assaults to be less agile. Why? So that their speed and agility actually matters.

Have you tried staying out of the firing arc of an assault in a light? If the assault pilot knows what he's doing, you can't. His turning speed, torso twist speed, and arm twist speed means he can track you no matter how fast or agile you are.

Go drop in a stock assault without any Pilot Skill unlocks. The drop in an elited one with an up-rated engine. I'd be flabbergasted if you couldn't feel the difference in agility right away. And the sad part? Even the stock, non-skilled one can track any target that's more than 25 meters away.

Light 'mechs speed and agility advantage is effectively neutered by the engine-rating-affects-everything and Pilot-Skills-improve-everything systems.

Why do light 'mechs more often than not run with maxed-out engines? Because by going fast you throw off the opponent's aim - they can still track you, but most of them (at least in the PUG queue) aren't very skilled at actually hitting a fast-moving target. Drop a few times against the guys who are, and you'll see that the speed and agility you think means something to lights mean nothing. If those guys can track you, they can hit you - and they only need to do it once or twice and that's all she wrote. A light does not have the armour to stand up to more than a few hits from a heavier opponent.

So no. Increased speed and agility across the board is the last thing this game - and lights in particular - needs. What it does need is decreased speed and agility across the board; that would be a real buff to both lights and mediums.

Edited by stjobe, 14 April 2015 - 10:28 AM.

[TercieI]

stjobe, on 14 April 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

No, you don't get it.

Lights are really fast and agile already. They don't need to be even faster and more agile. They need mediums, heavies, and assaults to be less agile. Why? So that their speed and agility actually matters.

Have you tried staying out of the firing arc of an assault in a light? If the assault pilot knows what he's doing, you can't. His turning speed, torso twist speed, and arm twist speed means he can track you no matter how fast or agile you are.

Go drop in a stock assault without any Pilot Skill unlocks. The drop in an elited one with an up-rated engine. I'd be flabbergasted if you couldn't feel the difference in agility right away. And the sad part? Even the stock, non-skilled one can track any target that's more than 25 meters away.

Light 'mechs speed and agility advantage is effectively neutered by the engine-rating-affects-everything and Pilot-Skills-improve-everything systems.

Why do light 'mechs more often than not run with maxed-out engines? Because by going fast you throw off the opponent's aim - they can still track you, but most of them (at least in the PUG queue) aren't very skilled at actually hitting a fast-moving target. Drop a few times against the guys who are, and you'll see that the speed and agility you think means something to lights mean nothing. If those guys can track you, they can hit you - and they only need to do it once or twice and that's all she wrote. A light does not have the armour to stand up to more than a few hits from a heavier opponent.

So no. Increased speed and agility across the board is the last thing this game - and lights in particular - needs. What it does need is decreased speed and agility across the board; that would be a real buff to both lights and mediums.

QFT. Liking just wasn't enough.

[Kenyon Burguess]

orcrist86, on 11 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

pgi tried hard coded 3/3/3/3.
It sucked
everyone hated it

no "everyone" didn't hate it. that system had its merits and quite a few of us would like to see part of it returned along with tonnage limits. but that's a discussion for another day

[Escef]

Geist Null, on 14 April 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

no "everyone" didn't hate it. that system had its merits and quite a few of us would like to see part of it returned along with tonnage limits. but that's a discussion for another day

The problem with "no exceptions" 4x3 is that it caused match making to take a very long time. Which is why we currently have a system with "valves" that loosen the restrictions after a few minutes.

Also, tonnage balancing is just straight up silly, as it posits that a Gargoyle and a Mist Lynx are equal to a Timber Wolf and a Kit Fox.

[The Bounty Hunter]

The True Space Pope, on 11 April 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

The Space Pope would like to know what combination and quantity of drugs you have partaken in to come to the conclusion that the Firestarter fails against other light mechs...

Honestly, the only reason to use any other light is for
A. Flavor/fun
B. You need ECM
C. You wish to snipe with Large Lasers/PPC

And even then you are probably going to be able to do much more damage just going with a FS.

The Space Pope understands that the people can have differing views, but he really can't see in what situation anyone would bet against a Firestarter when it is fighting another light mech (unless you are examining to pilots of marked skill difference).

-------------

On the flip side, it would be nice for lights to have something of importance to do other than kill stuff, but that is a map/game problem and not necessarily one related to light mechs in particular. Look at the medium mechs who end up in a similarly bad position due to the limited focus of this game.

Secondly, it would be interesting if there was some benefit with rolling with lower tonnage mechs (i.e. you get more of them).

The Bounty Hunter approves of this message.

[operatorZ]

stjobe, on 14 April 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

No, you don't get it.

Lights are really fast and agile already. They don't need to be even faster and more agile. They need mediums, heavies, and assaults to be less agile. Why? So that their speed and agility actually matters.

and this is predicated on what? the idea that lights are UP? What Elo are you playing at? I consistently see light mechs as the top or near the top damage in almost every match. When I've played lights I found it relatively easy to get get 200-300 damage and I am not even trying to be good at lights. This whole idea that lights are UP I don't see IMHO.

Making Assaults and Heavies slower just seems like a blatant cry by some light pilots to nerf what kills them the most, sounds like a personal problem.

Or is this idea the same old garbage about the light que %? please.... that doesn't even have any bearing on balance at all...zero. Anybody that says that lights are UP because of the low que % is absolutely trying to get buff for their favorite class and cares nothing about balance. Disregard anybody who says this...they do not know what they are talking about ...or even worse...they think they do

Edited by operatorZ, 14 April 2015 - 12:02 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

operatorZ, on 14 April 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

and this is predicated on what? the idea that lights are UP? What Elo are you playing at? I consistently see light mechs as the top or near the top damage in almost every match. When I've played lights I found it relatively easy to get get 200-300 damage and I am not even trying to be good at lights. This whole idea that lights are UP I don't see IMHO.

Making Assaults and Heavies slower just seems like a blatant cry by some light pilots to nerf what kills them the most, sounds like a personal problem.

Or is this idea the same old garbage about the light que %? please.... that doesn't even have any bearing on balance at all...zero. Anybody that says that lights are UP because of the low que % is absolutely trying to get buff for their favorite class and cares nothing about balance. Disregard anybody who says this...they do not know what they are talking about ...or even worse...they think they do

Stobje is absolutely right. However, mediums are not really better off than lights because their speed and agility is rivaled by heavies.You can rant as much as you want but just look at the heavy queue. There is a good reason why heavies are THAT popular: they rival the speed and agility of mediums while having superior firepower.And as Stobje said: an assault mech pilot who knows what he is doing will hit the light mech. A heavy mech pilot must be terrible to have even an easier time, especially with arm weapons.

[Deathlike]

operatorZ, on 14 April 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

and this is predicated on what? the idea that lights are UP? What Elo are you playing at? I consistently see light mechs as the top or near the top damage in almost every match. When I've played lights I found it relatively easy to get get 200-300 damage and I am not even trying to be good at lights. This whole idea that lights are UP I don't see IMHO.

Making Assaults and Heavies slower just seems like a blatant cry by some light pilots to nerf what kills them the most, sounds like a personal problem.

Or is this idea the same old garbage about the light que %? please.... that doesn't even have any bearing on balance at all...zero. Anybody that says that lights are UP because of the low que % is absolutely trying to get buff for their favorite class and cares nothing about balance. Disregard anybody who says this...they do not know what they are talking about ...or even worse...they think they do

You are assuming that Lights are on par with Assaults. That is completely erroneous as even those at the top even agree that Lights are still underpowered.

The queues are that not just a random event, they are a constant indication and reminder that bigger is better in MWO.

If the game were back in Open Beta with such an indicator, you would see an overwhelming Light race featuring Raven-3Ls using ECM that strictly countered each other and Steaks that fully aimed @ CT under worse network code. People will take the mech that best accomplishes success... and in the current state of MWO, it is generally through using a Heavy. Gee, I wonder why.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 April 2015 - 12:07 PM.

[Gyrok]

stjobe, on 14 April 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

No, you don't get it.

Lights are really fast and agile already. They don't need to be even faster and more agile. They need mediums, heavies, and assaults to be less agile. Why? So that their speed and agility actually matters.

Have you tried staying out of the firing arc of an assault in a light? If the assault pilot knows what he's doing, you can't. His turning speed, torso twist speed, and arm twist speed means he can track you no matter how fast or agile you are.

Go drop in a stock assault without any Pilot Skill unlocks. The drop in an elited one with an up-rated engine. I'd be flabbergasted if you couldn't feel the difference in agility right away. And the sad part? Even the stock, non-skilled one can track any target that's more than 25 meters away.

Light 'mechs speed and agility advantage is effectively neutered by the engine-rating-affects-everything and Pilot-Skills-improve-everything systems.

Why do light 'mechs more often than not run with maxed-out engines? Because by going fast you throw off the opponent's aim - they can still track you, but most of them (at least in the PUG queue) aren't very skilled at actually hitting a fast-moving target. Drop a few times against the guys who are, and you'll see that the speed and agility you think means something to lights mean nothing. If those guys can track you, they can hit you - and they only need to do it once or twice and that's all she wrote. A light does not have the armour to stand up to more than a few hits from a heavier opponent.

So no. Increased speed and agility across the board is the last thing this game - and lights in particular - needs. What it does need is decreased speed and agility across the board; that would be a real buff to both lights and mediums.

No, I think you are missing my point:

A stock DW cannot actively track anything running circles around it at 25m without being extremely disciplined, knowing the mech, and working your tail off. We are talking about fast mediums there, too, by the way. Light mechs make a mess of a stock DW. It is not even a contest for an unbasic'ed DW against an unbasic'ed FS9, especially if we are talking equal skill. If you have an incompetent light pilot...well...incompetence should be nerfed as it is clearly the bane of the player base.

You know what the best part is? IS Assaults can change that by changing engines...that DW is stuck as it is with a 300 rated engine and doomed to lack of mobility forever, in exchange for being a walking gun turret. You do not see them in CW because no one wants to baby sit. You might see something like a 12 DW gimmick drop...but be ready for the clan "light rush" after that. You get no heavy options for bring a DW...unless you want to run 2 gimped lights instead of 1.

Light mechs are on equal footing, until you consider they are usually about 40-50 kph faster, and that pays off huge in agility. If you cannot play them well enough...then so be it. However, know your limitations.

As it stands, I know that I am about a B tier light pilot...there are B+, A-, A, and A+ light pilots above me. So how do I deal with lights? I drive them to screw around, have fun, and play when I do not care how I perform. Could I be a better light pilot? Sure, if I really wanted to put the thousands of matches into lights that it took to become a solid heavy/assault pilot...do I want to do that? Not really.

Now, here comes the part you would try to argue.

The reason I do not want to run lights is not because I dislike them, nor is it because I think they are gimped, or broken. In fact, I think the FS9 is one of the most powerful mechs in the game right now...

So why not...?

Honestly, because I dislike commanding drops from a light mech. I have tried it, and as a scout/backstabber, you are out of position from the main group too much to be effective at managing the main group. I would rather put someone in lights who knows what I am looking for, and can run them as well, or even in some cases probably better, than I ever could.

My decision is purely from a tactical stand point.

[operatorZ]

Deathlike, on 14 April 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

You are assuming that Lights are on par with Assaults. That is completely erroneous as even those at the top even agree that Lights are still underpowered.

The queues are that not just a random event, they are a constant indication and reminder that bigger is better in MWO.

If the game were back in Open Beta with such an indicator, you would see an overwhelming Light race featuring Raven-3Ls using ECM that strictly countered each other and Steaks that fully aimed @ CT under worse network code. People will take the mech that best accomplishes success... and in the current state of MWO, it is generally through using a Heavy. Gee, I wonder why.

Wait..did we just enter some strange world were lights are supposed to be on par with assaults? or heavies? or mediums?

Furthermore what does "on par" mean? damage? If so than no, in exactly zero incarnations of BT/MW are lights supposed to be on par "damage" wise with any class above them. Yet PGI has had to compromise and make them dangerous to provide some use for the things since they refuse to institute rules/game modes that would make lights far more valuable in the roles they are supposed to take. Do I disagree with PGI's approach .....yes.

However, whats the point of even driving an assault or heavy if a light mech is on "par" with you. Honestly, if the lights get any faster or the assaults/heavies slower that will break balance not achieve it. Also, I don't understand the drive of this argument...why on earth do people think lights are UP? I see plenty of players do very well in them and I have been done in by skillfully piloted lights. Is their possibly a steeper learning curve in lights ....sure. Is their a lower level of forgiveness of mistakes in lights ....absolutely. That's the game. If you don't like a challenge don't play lights I guess.

All this talk about an Atlas being able to track you at 25m and booohoooo.....if your only tactic in lights is the circle jerk...your probably doing it wrong.

[operatorZ]

Bush Hopper, on 14 April 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Stobje is absolutely right. However, mediums are not really better off than lights because their speed and agility is rivaled by heavies.You can rant as much as you want but just look at the heavy queue. There is a good reason why heavies are THAT popular: they rival the speed and agility of mediums while having superior firepower.And as Stobje said: an assault mech pilot who knows what he is doing will hit the light mech. A heavy mech pilot must be terrible to have even an easier time, especially with arm weapons.

Heavies are popular because they have good firepower and mobility....that's their class...that's their job...that's what they do...that's what they have always done. Every class has disadvantegs and advantages its how we as players use those that makes a mech UP or OP. That's it. You want to flip the paradigm of BT/MW on its head, the entire basis for the game of differently advantaged class's of mechs? for the sake of making a que number go up? It just sounds crazy to me.

Basing ideas on balance on the que % is totally disregarding player choice or preference, and so the que % is NOT any indicator of balance. Because you cant separate out player choice. The only reality where your arguments would hold any water is a reality where everybody plays whatever is believed to be the best class regardless of anything else. Well guess what? we don't live in this reality, as proven by the very same que % numbers and basic logic.

[Deathlike]

operatorZ, on 14 April 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

Wait..did we just enter some strange world were lights are supposed to be on par with assaults? or heavies? or mediums?

Furthermore what does "on par" mean? damage? If so than no, in exactly zero incarnations of BT/MW are lights supposed to be on par "damage" wise with any class above them. Yet PGI has had to compromise and make them dangerous to provide some use for the things since they refuse to institute rules/game modes that would make lights far more valuable in the roles they are supposed to take. Do I disagree with PGI's approach .....yes.

When I mean "on par", I mean in usefulness. Since the game is primarily predicated on damage and kills, Lights not exactly the platforms to accomplish this at the same rate as a bigger mech would. If role warfare had existed, they would have other uses... but for the majority of this game... most people would prefer bigger mechs to accomplish the same task.

Quote

However, whats the point of even driving an assault or heavy if a light mech is on "par" with you. Honestly, if the lights get any faster or the assaults/heavies slower that will break balance not achieve it. Also, I don't understand the drive of this argument...why on earth do people think lights are UP? I see plenty of players do very well in them and I have been done in by skillfully piloted lights. Is their possibly a steeper learning curve in lights ....sure. Is their a lower level of forgiveness of mistakes in lights ....absolutely. That's the game. If you don't like a challenge don't play lights I guess.

The biggest problem with Lights currently is just the rewards. If we focus solely on damage, a larger mech tends reap more rewards through sheer damage (most damage on mech bonuses). For Lights, it's kinda done through other means (usually involving a UAV, and hoping there is a missile boat teammate) but to REALLY get the real money, it has to be through damage... and they don't regularly get 1k damage like a Direwolf can anyday of the week.

Quote

All this talk about an Atlas being able to track you at 25m and booohoooo.....if your only tactic in lights is the circle jerk...your probably doing it wrong.

No... TBH, I see a lot of Assault pilots complaining. Either they are not good @ shooting Lights, or that they wish Lights didn't harass them effectively. Right now any Assault is more than capable of tracking Lights when built and used properly. That's generally why the Light TTK is low (well, that and mega-alphas to go with convergence).

[Gyrok]

Deathlike, on 14 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

When I mean "on par", I mean in usefulness. Since the game is primarily predicated on damage and kills, Lights not exactly the platforms to accomplish this at the same rate as a bigger mech would. If role warfare had existed, they would have other uses... but for the majority of this game... most people would prefer bigger mechs to accomplish the same task.



The biggest problem with Lights currently is just the rewards. If we focus solely on damage, a larger mech tends reap more rewards through sheer damage (most damage on mech bonuses). For Lights, it's kinda done through other means (usually involving a UAV, and hoping there is a missile boat teammate) but to REALLY get the real money, it has to be through damage... and they don't regularly get 1k damage like a Direwolf can anyday of the week.




No... TBH, I see a lot of Assault pilots complaining. Either they are not good @ shooting Lights, or that they wish Lights didn't harass them effectively. Right now any Assault is more than capable of tracking Lights when built and used properly. That's generally why the Light TTK is low (well, that and mega-alphas to go with convergence).

Then add rewards for scouting, add rewards for doing damage to an enemy's flanks...

Unfortunately, it is unilaterally impossible to define "chaos points" as that is essentially what lights are best at...

[operatorZ]

Deathlike, on 14 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

When I mean "on par", I mean in usefulness. Since the game is primarily predicated on damage and kills, Lights not exactly the platforms to accomplish this at the same rate as a bigger mech would. If role warfare had existed, they would have other uses... but for the majority of this game... most people would prefer bigger mechs to accomplish the same task.



The biggest problem with Lights currently is just the rewards. If we focus solely on damage, a larger mech tends reap more rewards through sheer damage (most damage on mech bonuses). For Lights, it's kinda done through other means (usually involving a UAV, and hoping there is a missile boat teammate) but to REALLY get the real money, it has to be through damage... and they don't regularly get 1k damage like a Direwolf can anyday of the week.




No... TBH, I see a lot of Assault pilots complaining. Either they are not good @ shooting Lights, or that they wish Lights didn't harass them effectively. Right now any Assault is more than capable of tracking Lights when built and used properly. That's generally why the Light TTK is low (well, that and mega-alphas to go with convergence).

I agree with everything you said. Everything. Lights need to be on "par" with usefulness of Heavies/Assaults, and the way to do this is just as you have laid out...make the rewards for spotting, UAV use etc. much greater than they are now. I would even go a step further and make it so only lights can use items like UAV and artillery strike, Also PGI needs to add game modes that reward light scouting or capturing of positions. They have so many options other than using the same DAMAGE MOAR!!! system they currently use....and I think its a horrid way to implement the game.

The idea that I completely disagree with is making lights essentially faster to play into this damage system where every mech has to be able to 1v1 each other. If we are going to do that lets just do away with class's of mechs all together. I think light mechs are quite dangerous right now and don't need further buffs....I don't agree with the current system but..... its relatively balanced now.