82 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior3671771]

Can someone try to sell me on narcs for lights? I've played around with them on my Raven 3L and am very underwhelmed. Seems like a waste of tonnage and firepower. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Sure, there is that rare moment when I narc and call out to my missle boats who all converge and waste the poor guy, but that's happening maybe once per 20 matches.

And are the laser and AC builds really getting any bang for the buck from a narc'd target? Seems like they are usually out of position to take advantage, or don't really need it to begin with.

I can see the utility of bringing your own narc if you are an LRM build and (played correctly) get LOS on your target long enough to narc him, but for lights? Seems like a waste, although I'm open to being convinced otherwise...

[Modo44]

Do not be anything NARC or LRM if you want to get good at MWO. The entire weapon system is very luck based (ECM/cover/enemy skill matter more than whatever you build or do), and tends to lock people into bad behaviours that are detrimental when using any other weapon.

Specifically for NARC, if your team has no LRM (which happens in higher Elo), you just wasted 4+ tons. That would be bad on any mech, but usually means 1/3 or half of a light's entire weapons loadout. Nopeville.

Edited by Modo44, 12 April 2015 - 01:04 AM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Actually, NARC has another use, but it's hard to take full advantage of.

Specifically, this is based on the fact that a NARC beacon on an enemy 'mech will allow your team members to see its location and target lock it as though it were being observed by a teammate, regardless of whether or not anyone at all can see it.

Essentially, it becomes a hilariously effective scouting tool, assuming you can figure out the right time and place to peek at the enemy and NARC one (or more) of them. Once the beacon is on, you're free to flee or even die (though fleeing is probably preferable) and your entire team will now know where that enemy is until the beacon's internal battery (duration) wears out. This information benefits your whole team, no matter what weaponry they have.

It's really best used for this when you're part of a group that is used to working together, but it can still be handy in pure-pick-up matches as well. Unfortunately, it's not -really- worth the full weight of the launcher and ammo without someone out there using at least Streaks if not LRMs to take advantage of it.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 12 April 2015 - 01:50 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 12 April 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

Actually, NARC has another use, but it's hard to take full advantage of.

Specifically, this is based on the fact that a NARC beacon on an enemy 'mech will allow your team members to see its location and target lock it as though it were being observed by a teammate, regardless of whether or not anyone at all can see it.

Essentially, it becomes a hilariously effective scouting tool, assuming you can figure out the right time and place to peek at the enemy and NARC one (or more) of them. Once the beacon is on, you're free to flee or even die (though fleeing is probably preferable) and your entire team will now know where that enemy is until the beacon's internal battery (duration) wears out. This information benefits your whole team, no matter what weaponry they have.

This is useful, but unfortunately you don't get credit for it, so if you're grinding XP or Cbills it doesn't help you a whole lot. For your own income it's better to just use a regular weapon if there's no missile boats to spot for, but you do get a slight benefit from NARCing targets because it helps the team as a whole.
Having a NARC makes you a priority target though, so if you're not good at surviving in a light mech it's worse than useless.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 12 April 2015 - 04:47 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Narc requires a team and comms to make proper use of it, even then your group is better off using direct fire builds than lrm bombardment.

[happy mech]

if you grind, no

if you want to win, narc is huge, can disable multiple ecms, allows you team getting instant info when get visual contact, raven is perfect for this, i would not put narc on mechs that get blasted before even get into the 450m range (why clans have 600? that is lame), basically do not bother with putting narc on any IS mechs except rvn-3l, com-2d, jenner with jjs

on clan side, narc i hilarious, scr with lrm45 + narc + tag + ml, or any mech

[YCSLiesmith]

I strongly recommend that you not use narc. lights are MUCH more effective as snipers or skirmishers, and your peek-and-poke game will carry you forward a lot longer than narc. it's not the single worst took in the game but it's a waste of tonnage on a mech where tonnage is your restricting factor. furthermore the ecm defeating, target calling elements of narc are often way overstated. if you're in an organized unit you really won't have trouble focusing targets, with or without ecm, and in practice UAVs are all you need.

To Happy Mech: I suggest you try replacing the lrm45/narc/tag with direct fire laser weapons, or turn it into a skillcrow. you are not playing to the ryuken's strengths at all with that build.

[bad arcade kitty]

uav costs 45k c-bills per use

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 12 April 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[dragnier1]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

uav costs 45k c-bills per use

I second that!

[TercieI]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

uav costs 45k c-bills per use

40k actually.

Also, Fenris, no...NARC is not really a good choice. You'll help yourself and your team a lot more by taking guns that do damage. Whatever one wants the game to be as regards role warfare, EWAR or what have you, it's not there. This is a battle game and any mech that doesn't deliver damage as effectively as possible is a sub-par mech. It's really that simple. This is why LRMs aren't good and NARC is pretty much throwing good money after bad.

[bad arcade kitty]

i see why narc on a support is bad in the public games where even ams may sometimes feel as a waste of 1 tonne (0,5 ams + 0.5 ammo), but a build like aforementioned narc crow looks interesting to try... i.e. when you use narc for your own lrm launchers, hm, thinking of it, even a light mech, adder, can get 2 lrm20, narc and 3-4 tonnes of ammo (depending if you want a med laser just in case or not)

[xMintaka]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

i see why narc on a support is bad in the public games where even ams may sometimes feel as a waste of 1 tonne (0,5 ams + 0.5 ammo), but a build like aforementioned narc crow looks interesting to try... i.e. when you use narc for your own lrm launchers, hm, thinking of it, even a light mech, adder, can get 2 lrm20, narc and 3-4 tonnes of ammo (depending if you want a med laser just in case or not)

Better off dropping the NARC for a Tag + Artemis on your launchers and more ammo/speed/whatever.

But I agree with everything said above about Lurms being wasted weaponry. They are just too easy to avoid, spent an entire game teasing a ALRM45 Atlas-S (just don't) in my Urbie and not a single missile hit me.

IMHO LRM's are fun for a change of pace but nothing more. If I'm serious about winning I pack direct fire weapons.

[bad arcade kitty]

tag is significantly easier to avoid than narc, as soon as you hide you are not tagged anymore though

also lrm it was the very first weapon in this game which managed one shot me :3 it was a pretty embarrassing game, i was in a trial mdd-prime and it was 30 seconds in game, our lance went from the spawn point when an enemy mech appeared over a nearby hill and shot a single volley of lrm, no way to hide, no ams, they hit me and exploded one of those doge's huge launchers... ohko

[YCSLiesmith]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

uav costs 45k c-bills per use

and it will easily pay for itself with kills and scouting bonus. dont be afraid to spend cbills in this game, they can come back to you manifold if you use them right.

I've seen airstrikes deal 400 damage to clumped up groups and get the guy who dropped them hundreds of thousands of cbills. be bold

[YCSLiesmith]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

i see why narc on a support is bad in the public games where even ams may sometimes feel as a waste of 1 tonne (0,5 ams + 0.5 ammo), but a build like aforementioned narc crow looks interesting to try... i.e. when you use narc for your own lrm launchers, hm, thinking of it, even a light mech, adder, can get 2 lrm20, narc and 3-4 tonnes of ammo (depending if you want a med laser just in case or not)

the problem with that narc crow is that the stormcrow is one of the single best direct damage mechs in the game. they can carry a punishing array of clan lasers or srms, making them useful for either devastating, pinpoint-targeted volleys or light hunting. An LRM tag narc stormcrow is a tragic waste of that potential damage.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Thanks guys, this is all pretty much what I've discovered, but I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something.

Right now I'm running 2ERLs or (my preferred) LP/2MP build on the Raven 3L. Carrying narc just felt gimpy, and when I play with my team the shot-callers seem to do just fine without narc'd targets.

[bad arcade kitty]

YCSLiesmith, on 12 April 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

the problem with that narc crow is that the stormcrow is one of the single best direct damage mechs in the game. they can carry a punishing array of clan lasers or srms, making them useful for either devastating, pinpoint-targeted volleys or light hunting. An LRM tag narc stormcrow is a tragic waste of that potential damage.

ok, what about narc adder? or narc mad dog?

[TercieI]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

ok, what about narc adder? or narc mad dog?

ADR: 4MPL, LPL/3ML, 2LPL, ASRM16-24, streak 16...
MDD: ASRM36, streak36, supplement with lasers to taste...

There are almost literally always better options than LRMs.

[epikt]

Modo44, on 12 April 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

Do not be anything NARC or LRM if you want to get good at MWO. The entire weapon system is very luck based (ECM/cover/enemy skill matter more than whatever you build or do)

Luck based... Seriously?

Being a good narcer does not involves luck. At all. But it requires being a good shot, good situation awareness and being able to correctly prioritize your targets. Without that you'll definitely be wasted tonnage.
As a spotting tool I find the NARC infinitely superior to the TAG: all you need is one shot and you're good for 40 seconds, without the need to expose yourself.
As for the initial question, about NARC specifically on a light mech, it's in my opinion the only place you'd want that equipment. In other word: NARC on the (light) spotter, TAG on the LRM-boat.
I'm personally using NARC on the Panther (abusing the JJs) and the Raven (when I want ECM), both with success.

That being said, there are some things not to do with NARC:
- don't drop solo with a narcer, that would be indeed a waste of tonnage at least 50% of the time. Only drop in group with enough LRM firepower;
- yet, don't turn your team into an LRM focus squad, LRM+NARC works best in combination with direct firepower, for both defence and offence.

[Modo44]

epikt, on 12 April 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

Luck based... Seriously?

Yes. If your team can not spot and/or enemies have too much ECM and/or enemies are good enough to swarm a boat and/or the map provides easy cover, your LRM boat is done, gone right there. No matter your piloting skill or build.