38 replies to this topic

[Questia]

So, this is mostly a newbie theory-testing...
One question at a time.

But for the Firestarter FS9-S, what would be better overall: XL 295 with 5 MPL, XL 280 with 6 MPL, or XL 245 with 7 MPL?

The first one's the standard, and emphasizes 'speed is life', but I think it lacks true hit-and-run punch with only 30 damage to its name.

The second one's a bit more powerful at 36 damage, but of course it's hotter and has less speed.

The last one's full-on TDR-5SS mini at 42 damage, but speed is sacrificed, it runs extremely hot, and can't recover its heat that fast.

Which one should I use?
This is all assuming I have Radar Deprivation, Seismic Sensor, and the range module for the MPLs. I have a TDR-5SS, so I know exactly how powerful the MPL spam is...

[Modo44]

More damage does not automatically win, the firepower value just tells you what you can do in one shot. It is more important to be able to fire multiple times, and to move quickly in a fight. That is why most builds, especially for light mechs, use the biggest engine available, or at least stay close. You want to keep the heat management value at 1.3 or above, or you will be an easy target every time your one big alphastrike does not actually kill.

[bad arcade kitty]

>More damage does not automatically win

nova prime with 14 medium lasers ftw
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...47892e975c0b79d

98 fire power on a medium mech, will kill anybody

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 12 April 2015 - 08:48 AM.

[Modo44]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

>More damage does not automatically win

nova prime with 14 medium lasers ftw
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...47892e975c0b79d

98 fire power on a medium mech, will kill anybody

No, it will overheat you instantly. Please check ghost heat before you post something stupid like that. If you want to see how actually optimized builds look like, go to metamechs.

[bad arcade kitty]

Modo44, on 12 April 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

No, it will overheat you instantly. Please check ghost heat before you post something stupid like that. If you want to see how actually optimized builds look like, go to metamechs.

phew, it's an obvious joke
actually i had to swap 2 of those med lasers for large ones for more power, over 100 power!
something like this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5a4d1b3625d6770

btw i use this heat simulator http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

[mailin]

Modo, I believe he was kidding about that Nova build. If not, bad arcade kitty should build it and see how it works. Then report back, preferably with a video for lols.

[Koniving]

Link Version (for the new window).
What happened on a much more forgiving level of ghost heat and weapon heat.

o.O; Read the chat.

[Modo44]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

phew, it's an obvious joke

Not to a new player. There was a 12xERML Nova in the trial rotation not long ago. Plenty of people fell for that, and died from firing once.

[Koniving]

On a side note, I'm still amazed that 12 ER ML will kill you on the first shot, but 13 ER PPCs, ghost heat bringing it to over 1,000 heat... won't. I'm just sayin'.

Also in my experience, what is more important than anything else is not shutting down. For me an ideal build is one that will not shutdown, ever, even if you forget to check your heat for a while. For example my Ember (hero firestarter) runs a standard engine, 4 MGs, 2 SL and 1 MPL (for the short beam times). It will never stop, it will never overheat, I can use it anywhere (even in lava) and focus entirely on what I'm doing. Not to mention it's great when every single enemy you face stops shooting when you lose a side torso and you can see their mech endulge in their real life physical reaction of "What the? How? Why are you alive!?" before they die.

Spoiler

Played very aggressive and very stupid here. But I absolutely wanted that second kill... and managed to net a third despite being legged by the second. The third was a triple AC/5 Muromets.


I was surrounded by 6 mechs and kept running between them.

Again, 4 MGs, 1 MPL, 2 SL.

So, having lots of guns doesn't mean much. And with a standard engine I'm limited to less than a 200 rating, kph in the 90s like the Clan lights Adder and Kitfox and this was before quirks. It's whether or not you can keep fighting while everyone else shuts down. (2 armor rear, all else to the front helped a LOT, too. Especially since I was DPS-oriented with the MGs).

[Rogue Jedi]

I personally would go for the 4 MPL on the arms with 3 SL on the torsos, 4 Jumpjets and the XL295, the 3 SL give you a larger alpha and some weapons if you loose both arms.

the weapons load out all comes down to personal preference, just because something works well for someone else does not mean it will for you, and following the quirks exactly does not always make the Mech better.

[Omi_]

Regarding the Firestarters, you pretty much want to take an XL 295 and then build the weapons loadout from there. If a Firestarter can't run 150 kph, then it can't run from other lights that DO run that speed, and that's really important for the chassis. Bringing more weapons at the cost of reduced speed is a role better served by almost any medium mech.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

FS9-S

This puts quad SPLs on the arms for surgery and triple MPLs in the torsos for main firepower and attack runs. It also gets you a bit more heat efficiency at minimal cost in lost speed, while giving you a pair of JJs (still a handy thing to have).

You can replace the SPLs with MLs for a straight bump in range and damage, though your heat efficiency tanks and you have to keep those arms tracking on the target for a lot longer.

[happy mech]

i think, try it in testing grounds, the ac40 support can focus important components fast, but requires diferent playstyle

Koniving, on 12 April 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

On a side note, I'm still amazed that 12 ER ML will kill you on the first shot, but 13 ER PPCs, ghost heat bringing it to over 1,000 heat... won't. I'm just sayin'.

Also in my experience, what is more important than anything else is not shutting down. For me an ideal build is one that will not shutdown, ever, even if you forget to check your heat for a while. For example my Ember (hero firestarter) runs a standard engine, 4 MGs, 2 SL and 1 MPL (for the short beam times). It will never stop, it will never overheat, I can use it anywhere (even in lava) and focus entirely on what I'm doing. Not to mention it's great when every single enemy you face stops shooting when you lose a side torso and you can see their mech endulge in their real life physical reaction of "What the? How? Why are you alive!?" before they die.

So, having lots of guns doesn't mean much. And with a standard engine I'm limited to less than a 200 rating, kph in the 90s like the Clan lights Adder and Kitfox and this was before quirks. It's whether or not you can keep fighting while everyone else shuts down. (2 armor rear, all else to the front helped a LOT, too. Especially since I was DPS-oriented with the MGs).

this is how the builds should be done, but with the current high heat cap, it only favours alpha n hide

[Ronin Wario]

So much confusing stuff for this game.

[_____]

Different builds run different ways. You can see how one comp player (Celyth) runs the 7MPL version: http://www.twitch.tv...489694?t=36m27s

Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9723067180efcbc

[Modo44]

Celyth has special builds that only work with very good positioning and aim, and near perfect hit detection. They really do require killing/crippling enemies quickly, or you die horribly.

Ronin Wario, on 13 April 2015 - 01:14 AM, said:

So much confusing stuff for this game.

Welcome to MWO. If you would like to learn on your own, play a lot. If you like guides, this one is pretty recent.

[_____]

Modo44, on 13 April 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

Celyth has special builds that only work with very good positioning and aim, and near perfect hit detection. They really do require killing/crippling enemies quickly, or you die horribly.

If you're in any light and you don't position well, you will die horribly. Similarly everyone should (try to) aim well also. These two things I think are fundamentals that apply to every mech.

So my own observation from the video was that the 7MPL version is a peek-and-strike mech versus maybe a flank-and-DPS mech that a 5MPL version could do better. Also I'd point out that the weapon grouping gives this version more options, a 4 and 3 group for potentially doing more DPS and all 7 for a pretty sick alpha. Everyone can draw their own conclusions from this gameplay video, but this is what I see.

[Modo44]

I am not talking about overheating to death. I am talking about not being able to put out enough DPS for any kind of protracted fight. A very hot build requires perfect circumstances to work, and pilot skill plus hit detection play a major role.

[John80sk]

Koniving, on 12 April 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

For example my Ember (hero firestarter) runs a standard engine, 4 MGs, 2 SL and 1 MPL (for the short beam times).

Not sure if trolling so I'm just going to leave this alone...

Questia, on 12 April 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

So, this is mostly a newbie theory-testing...
One question at a time.

But for the Firestarter FS9-S, what would be better overall: XL 295 with 5 MPL, XL 280 with 6 MPL, or XL 245 with 7 MPL?

The first one's the standard, and emphasizes 'speed is life', but I think it lacks true hit-and-run punch with only 30 damage to its name.

The second one's a bit more powerful at 36 damage, but of course it's hotter and has less speed.

The last one's full-on TDR-5SS mini at 42 damage, but speed is sacrificed, it runs extremely hot, and can't recover its heat that fast.

Which one should I use?
This is all assuming I have Radar Deprivation, Seismic Sensor, and the range module for the MPLs. I have a TDR-5SS, so I know exactly how powerful the MPL spam is...

5MPL is generally the standard on the S. 6MPL is doable as well, though a tad hot if I remember right.

7MPL is funny as hell, but not really viable. Great for trolling around and one shotting XL's from behind, but not super awesome otherwise.

As a whole I find you generally want to be riding the heat scale in a fight, but not so much that you're spending more time cooling off than shooting. It's advantageous to get damage out quickly, but if you can't get enough damage out to kill what you're fighting without overheating you have a problem.

This is less of a problem in lights because you have the ability to disengage most enemies when you start to run hot. The issue with running 7MPL is you lose the ability to disengage when running hot unless you can get creative with your escape routes.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5590a01e725e13e I would recommend starting with this and then flavoring it to taste based off of what you find it lacking.

[Questia]

Thanks for all the replies!
I'm mostly curious and slightly preparing for the time when I'll buy a light mech, since it always helps to have a good spread on weight classes (with mastery of course).

For something a little less serious, though...
How would you rate a TBR build...
A. using 3 UAC/5s, give or take a few ERMLs?
B. using 2 Gauss Rifles a la Gaussjager?