316 replies to this topic

[Tank]

My less experienced in MWO friend asks for a "rear view mirror" or a camera as a mech module. Something similar to 4x zoom. Plausible to get this in the future?

[dekker lentz]

Any thoughts in allowing inner sphere players take one clan mech in their drop deck in CW as a representation of salvaging Clan Mechs, maybe gating to certain Inner Sphere ranks? Like Tier X and above?

[Kh0rn]

Pumping in my point about improving the graphics and sounds of the game this is quiet shocking of the graphics then and now and how far they have gone down. I know last time he mentioned about improvement but really look at the difference.

[Bulvar Jorgensson]

Having played this game for over a year

Do PGI think player satisfaction (by that I mean gameplay/involvement) has improved of declined.

I ask this as Khorn's picture in the previous post had me wondering have PGI dumbed down the graphics/gameplay to allow a larger gamer base (based on PGI wishing to get a steam launch)

Watching old BETA videos, the game seemed to have more Physics/immersion than todays product.

[Peiper]

Tarogato, on 16 April 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

I saw this question and we don't need Russ to say it when the answer is incredibly obvious:

No, IS pilots will always have to pilot IS mechs and Clans will always have to pilot Clan mechs. If you didn't see this coming even before Clan Wave 1, then you simply don't understand the background for it. IS would never pilot Clan mechs until many years from now, and I don't think MWO will ever reach that part in the timeline because CW is a simulation of the 3050 clan invasion when the IS had no idea what Clans were at first and the Clans had no desire at that point to use outdated IS tech.

So no. Try asking your question again in about three years and maybe something will have changed, but I don't foresee it changing anytime soon.

Trying to apply lore to community warfare is like checking Monty Python's The Life of Brian for historical accuracy about the life of Jesus. It isn't the mechs that make loyalists loyal to a faction, unless you break it down to which house produced which mechs. ANY inner sphere warrior would be happy to salvage clan tech, and given the current super-quirks, any clan warrior would want the best bang for the tonnage - that is, why take a kit fox when you can have a raven or firestarter??

I'm not saying that it should be an easy grind to get there, but the grind could help ensure faction loyalties. Example: if you attain rank 10 in House Kurita, and get priority salvage rights, you can gain access to Kurita's secret treasure trove of clan tech. Why? Because you earned it. BUT, if you break contract with Kurita, you lose access to the treasures. You might keep your rank and the mechbays or whatever that you earned working for them, but the priority salvage rights are for permanent contract holders who have ALSO earned their ranks fighting for the faction in CW.

Remember, the clans have lost as many planets as they've won. Both sides will have salvage by any logical POV with community warfare. There was little clan salvage in lore during the Clan invasion because 1. Clans didn't lose. 2. Clans wouldn't use inferior IS tech they gathered other than for target practice or MAYBE solohma units. PGI's community warfare has much planet trading between clans and the inner sphere AND the technology gap is virtually non-existent in MWO.

See my point? If you're going to do lore, then do it. Make it so you can crush house capitals. Make it so you can follow the exodus road back to Strana Mechty. Make it so the Houses CANNOT fight each other while the invasion is on. Make it so the Clans cannot fight each other. Put in a black market, salvage rights, repair and rearm costs AND downtime for those repairs, jumpship and dropship logistics, etc... If you won't do that, then don't try to bullshizzle me with 'this has to be this way' arguments because they hold NO water.

Want to get historical fact to compare to Battletech fiction? Let's see what happens when countries trade territory and form alliances. The Americans flew Spitfires, and the British flew Mustangs. The Russians used Air Cobras, Sherman tanks, Studebakers, and Matildas. The British had American destroyers. The Polish used M1 Garands and dropped from Dakotas. The Germans used T-34's in the war, and the Russians used Panthers. Hell, the Germans used 'mixed tech,' too, taking French tanks and half-tracks and turning them into a variety of up-gunned or modernized weapons. The Germans and Japanese shared blueprints. The British shared intelligence. The Germans used Russian small arms and guns, as well. The French fought for and against the {Godwin's Law}. So did the Italians, Polish, Slovaks, Dutch, etc... And that was all in 6 years of warfare, mostly fought no faster than an infantryman can march. Let's add dropships, raids, entire PLANETS changing hands. Hundreds of changeovers have happened in 6 months of community warfare, far more than during the entire Clan Invasion in lore.

YOU JUST CAN'T COMPARE without breaking your head. So, PGI's reasons for keeping salvage and/or a black market out of the game, well, they're bullshizzle, UNLESS they can add significantly more depth to the game. And looking at the inner sphere the way it is now in CW, it's obvious that it doesn't take 5 shermans to knock out 1 tiger, I mean, a inner sphere company to knock out a clan star....

So, I'll keep asking the question until I get an answer that MAKES SENSE.

_____________________

{Godwin's Law} nice play, there, PGI! lol. I'd edit it to read 'Germans' instead, but the education was worth it!

Edited by Peiper, 16 April 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[Kh0rn]

Bulvar Jorgensson, on 16 April 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Having played this game for over a year

Do PGI think player satisfaction (by that I mean gameplay/involvement) has improved of declined.

I ask this as Khorn's picture in the previous post had me wondering have PGI dumbed down the graphics/gameplay to allow a larger gamer base (based on PGI wishing to get a steam launch)

Watching old BETA videos, the game seemed to have more Physics/immersion than todays product.

This is what I am trying too get Russ too ask is will we see a return too the great graphics , immersion and sounds that closed beta had I believe gameplay, sound and graphics are important. Sound and graphics will bring you closer and make you feel more like that is awesome looking how the mech stands out in the terrain or maybe the old good sounds of the weapons. feeling the power of an AC20 or the Srms smashing into a mech Sounds play a very important role in what you are seeing and feeling. people over look sounds but it is a big part. Graphics will its because they dropped so low when they were outstanding. As you can see in the picture the difference is staggering. PGI proved back then they could do it with the sounds and graphics including immersion assets like re arm an repair. just adding the image again so more people can see.

[BigBangA1]

Question:

Will the behavior of Clan SSRM's be adjusted in any way (for example, making them volley fire weapon similar to C-LRM's)?

Edited by BigBangA1, 16 April 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Tarogato]

Peiper, on 16 April 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Trying to apply lore to community warfare is like checking Monty Python's The Life of Brian for historical accuracy about the life of Jesus. It isn't the mechs that make loyalists loyal to a faction, unless you break it down to which house produced which mechs. ANY inner sphere warrior would be happy to salvage clan tech, and given the current super-quirks, any clan warrior would want the best bang for the tonnage - that is, why take a kit fox when you can have a raven or firestarter??

I'm not saying that it should be an easy grind to get there, but the grind could help ensure faction loyalties. Example: if you attain rank 10 in House Kurita, and get priority salvage rights, you can gain access to Kurita's secret treasure trove of clan tech. Why? Because you earned it. BUT, if you break contract with Kurita, you lose access to the treasures. You might keep your rank and the mechbays or whatever that you earned working for them, but the priority salvage rights are for permanent contract holders who have ALSO earned their ranks fighting for the faction in CW.

Remember, the clans have lost as many planets as they've won. Both sides will have salvage by any logical POV with community warfare. There was little clan salvage in lore during the Clan invasion because 1. Clans didn't lose. 2. Clans wouldn't use inferior IS tech they gathered other than for target practice or MAYBE solohma units. PGI's community warfare has much planet trading between clans and the inner sphere AND the technology gap is virtually non-existent in MWO.

See my point? If you're going to do lore, then do it. Make it so you can crush house capitals. Make it so you can follow the exodus road back to Strana Mechty. Make it so the Houses CANNOT fight each other while the invasion is on. Make it so the Clans cannot fight each other. Put in a black market, salvage rights, repair and rearm costs AND downtime for those repairs, jumpship and dropship logistics, etc... If you won't do that, then don't try to bullshizzle me with 'this has to be this way' arguments because they hold NO water.

Want to get historical fact to compare to Battletech fiction? Let's see what happens when countries trade territory and form alliances. The Americans flew Spitfires, and the British flew Mustangs. The Russians used Air Cobras, Sherman tanks, Studebakers, and Matildas. The British had American destroyers. The Polish used M1 Garands and dropped from Dakotas. The Germans used T-34's in the war, and the Russians used Panthers. Hell, the Germans used 'mixed tech,' too, taking French tanks and half-tracks and turning them into a variety of up-gunned or modernized weapons. The Germans and Japanese shared blueprints. The British shared intelligence. The Germans used Russian small arms and guns, as well. The French fought for and against the {Godwin's Law}. So did the Italians, Polish, Slovaks, Dutch, etc... And that was all in 6 years of warfare, mostly fought no faster than an infantryman can march. Let's add dropships, raids, entire PLANETS changing hands. Hundreds of changeovers have happened in 6 months of community warfare, far more than during the entire Clan Invasion in lore.

YOU JUST CAN'T COMPARE without breaking your head. So, PGI's reasons for keeping salvage and/or a black market out of the game, well, they're bullshizzle, UNLESS they can add significantly more depth to the game. And looking at the inner sphere the way it is now in CW, it's obvious that it doesn't take 5 shermans to knock out 1 tiger, I mean, a inner sphere company to knock out a clan star....

So, I'll keep asking the question until I get an answer that MAKES SENSE.

The problem is that Clan tech would then become the end game because they have the advantage in CW gameplay. Innersphere mechs would become obsolete and nobody would use them when they could bring Timbers, Stormcrows, and Arctic Cheetahs every single drop. The incentive for the player base to invest in IS mechs would drop (PGI would be more hard pressed to develop IS mechs and developing only Clan mechs would become more lucrative), because why invest in inferior tech? Also, the variety on the battlefield would drop dramatically and the gameplay would become even more stale than it already is.

The alternative? Buff IS mechs so that they are as strong as Clan. But the problem... some people already think they are too strong. And an asymmetrical game balance is infinitely more dynamic and engaging than a symmetrical one.

I was going to say "find a group of people that prefer we have mixed tech, and show me that there are more of these people than people that would prefer we didn't have mixed tech", but I might just create a poll myself to see.

If you want to play Clan mechs, play for a Clan. If you want to play IS mechs, play for a house. If you want to play both, then take temporary contracts and switch sides as you please and enjoy the fruits of both trees.

[Goose]

Where's the Command Rose? I would not deign to comm with PUGs any other way, after all these Hate-Years of play …

[Ghost_19Hz]

Is there any information on the collisions / knockdown system?

I was a huge fan of collisions(minus the DRG being calculated as a 100t ofc) and was hoping they'd make a comeback in some form.

Might I suggest in the meantime adding a unique and non-intrusive sound effect when crashing into each other and steep walls? I think this would help new and old players alike, as I often see them running into objects / mechs outside their POV and becoming immobile for far too long, not knowing the culprit until its too late.

Plus SFX always make things better!

Edited by Ghost_19Hz, 16 April 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Gorgo7]

Kh0rn, on 16 April 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

This is what I am trying too get Russ too ask is will we see a return too the great graphics , immersion and sounds that closed beta had I believe gameplay, sound and graphics are important. Sound and graphics will bring you closer and make you feel more like that is awesome looking how the mech stands out in the terrain or maybe the old good sounds of the weapons. feeling the power of an AC20 or the Srms smashing into a mech Sounds play a very important role in what you are seeing and feeling. people over look sounds but it is a big part. Graphics will its because they dropped so low when they were outstanding. As you can see in the picture the difference is staggering. PGI proved back then they could do it with the sounds and graphics including immersion assets like re arm an repair. just adding the image again so more people can see.

looks to me like you are confusing graphics with details. The graphics seem the same or even worse. The level of detail however is higher in the fist pic.

[Kh0rn]

Gorgo7, on 16 April 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

looks to me like you are confusing graphics with details. The graphics seem the same or even worse. The level of detail however is higher in the fist pic.

Yes the level of detail sorry I meant that yes it has gone down would very much too see that kind of detail too return.

Edited by Kh0rn, 16 April 2015 - 02:03 PM.

[Peiper]

Tarogato, on 16 April 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

If you want to play Clan mechs, play for a Clan. If you want to play IS mechs, play for a house. If you want to play both, then take temporary contracts and switch sides as you please and enjoy the fruits of both trees.

We PAID to play all our mechs. Some of my Devil Dogs bought only inner sphere mechs, some bought only clan mechs. Our loyalty to House Steiner was important for many of my players. Many of my players also liked the fact that we were a clan based unit, that is, Wolfs Dragoons. PGI never said we couldn't play any of our mechs in community warfare when several of us spent hundreds of dollars each on clan mechs and/or inner sphere mechs. Our unit IS lore based, but community warfare IS NOT. In any case, the only way our guys could play ALL our mechs was to alternate contracts between the IS and Clan. It broke our unit. Some guys were more loyal to House Steiner than they were to each other. If I stayed Steiner, the guys that bought the clan mechs would have left. I'm sure that sort of thinking has driven many units to hop back and forth over the fence, but it is a clear violation of any sort of verisimilitude that we can even flip contracts. What employer would want an employee who only took one week contracts, alternating with their prime competition? It makes no sense.

I'm sure PGI thought of this. They thought: if we make people play clan mechs in clans, and vice versa, then we will piss off all the players who paid money to pilot their mechs. But if we make everyone take 1 month or more contracts, like seasonal contracts, then those people who paid money for their mechs and can't play them because their unit can only play half their stable, well, we'll piss them off. So, they picked one. What if they did it the other way for phase 2 of community warfare beta, let people take ANY mechs no matter their faction, but at the same time, made units take ONLY permanent contracts - what would happen?

An easy solution is an a VERY basic in-game economy. Clan mechs cost more to maintain. You could reflect that in post drop awards, if you want to be very simplistic about it. Make it so people will more likely break even in clan mechs and profit if they play in inner sphere mechs.

The BEST solution is an old battletech one. Battle Value. I've written enough about it, and you can look it up if you want more information. Suffice it to say that a stock urbanmech has a battle value of ~450 points. A stock Dire Wolf-S has a BV of: 2875 points. Trick either of those out, and the battle value goes up, but you're looking at a ratio of 6 urbies versus a Dire Wolf-S would be a fair fight. Now, sure, because mechs, weapons, speed, etc... doesn't work the same here as in Battletech, you'd have to revise the battle value system, then add the ELO score of the pilot to get the composite mech/pilot value. BUT, it's possible. The idea is: if you take a company (12) of inner sphere mechs vs. a star (10) clan mechs, and win, you're going to pay a whole lot less to repair or replace your losses than the Clanner is. The Clanners could go broke, and if they want to make some cash back to support their habits, they'll have to go into the public queues or take less flashy mechs in community warfare. The economy of war is an important immersion factor. I'm sure that if a war historian of today was to go back in time to WWII Germany, he would explain a dozen T-34's is a better investment than a single King Tiger. Doesn't mean people wouldn't want to drive the King Tiger! Just that in the end, T-34's won the war. ECONOMY!!!

[Tarogato]

Peiper, on 16 April 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

We PAID to play all our mechs. Some of my Devil Dogs bought only inner sphere mechs, some bought only clan mechs. Our loyalty to House Steiner was important for many of my players. Many of my players also liked the fact that we were a clan based unit, that is, Wolfs Dragoons. PGI never said we couldn't play any of our mechs in community warfare when several of us spent hundreds of dollars each on clan mechs and/or inner sphere mechs. Our unit IS lore based, but community warfare IS NOT. In any case, the only way our guys could play ALL our mechs was to alternate contracts between the IS and Clan. It broke our unit. Some guys were more loyal to House Steiner than they were to each other. If I stayed Steiner, the guys that bought the clan mechs would have left. I'm sure that sort of thinking has driven many units to hop back and forth over the fence, but it is a clear violation of any sort of verisimilitude that we can even flip contracts. What employer would want an employee who only took one week contracts, alternating with their prime competition? It makes no sense.

I'm sure PGI thought of this. They thought: if we make people play clan mechs in clans, and vice versa, then we will piss off all the players who paid money to pilot their mechs. But if we make everyone take 1 month or more contracts, like seasonal contracts, then those people who paid money for their mechs and can't play them because their unit can only play half their stable, well, we'll piss them off. So, they picked one. What if they did it the other way for phase 2 of community warfare beta, let people take ANY mechs no matter their faction, but at the same time, made units take ONLY permanent contracts - what would happen?

An easy solution is an a VERY basic in-game economy. Clan mechs cost more to maintain. You could reflect that in post drop awards, if you want to be very simplistic about it. Make it so people will more likely break even in clan mechs and profit if they play in inner sphere mechs.

The BEST solution is an old battletech one. Battle Value. I've written enough about it, and you can look it up if you want more information. Suffice it to say that a stock urbanmech has a battle value of ~450 points. A stock Dire Wolf-S has a BV of: 2875 points. Trick either of those out, and the battle value goes up, but you're looking at a ratio of 6 urbies versus a Dire Wolf-S would be a fair fight. Now, sure, because mechs, weapons, speed, etc... doesn't work the same here as in Battletech, you'd have to revise the battle value system, then add the ELO score of the pilot to get the composite mech/pilot value. BUT, it's possible. The idea is: if you take a company (12) of inner sphere mechs vs. a star (10) clan mechs, and win, you're going to pay a whole lot less to repair or replace your losses than the Clanner is. The Clanners could go broke, and if they want to make some cash back to support their habits, they'll have to go into the public queues or take less flashy mechs in community warfare. The economy of war is an important immersion factor. I'm sure that if a war historian of today was to go back in time to WWII Germany, he would explain a dozen T-34's is a better investment than a single King Tiger. Doesn't mean people wouldn't want to drive the King Tiger! Just that in the end, T-34's won the war. ECONOMY!!!

I've started a thread on the topic so we can continue to bicker about this in a more appropriate location. =P

http://mwomercs.com/...ixed-dropdecks/

[HlynkaCG]

Question:

As it stands Endo-steel is a blatantly superior Ferro-Fiberous. This putts any mech that comes with FF but not ES at distinct a disadvantage. Do you or anyone else at PGI have any thoughts on improving FF or perhaps giving some benefits to taking standard structure so that these two upgrades are a bit closer in terms of build optimization? I suspect that this would go a long way towards bringing certain "problem mechs" like the Gargoyle and Summoner up to par.

[krazzyharry]

Speaking of unused XP....would it be possible to use mech XP for other variants of the same chassis? My HBK-4G(F) has 235,000 mech XP even after converting some to GXP several times. It would be nice if I could covert to other variants I haven't tried even at a lessened ratio (30%?). Might even consider buying a Grid Iron if I could use all this extra XP.

Edited by krazzyharry, 16 April 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[Goose]

Any plans to give us a switch for the Clan 'Mech names?

[Vyx]

I am a heavy/assault pilot. I don't play anything less; it's just not in me.

Community warfare is essentially unusable to me due to the tonnage/number of mechs restrictions.

Will CW drop limits ever be broadened to allow for, say, 3-5 mechs of up to 240(250)T? This would permit players who would like to specialize in a weight-class to do so.

[GI Journalist]

You have a lot of BattleTech history to use. Are you planning any events that correspond to the BattleTech timeline, such as the 3051 conference hosted on Outreach by Wolf's Dragoons?

(As I recall, Col. Jamie Wolf gave away Dire Wolf BattleMechs to the best performing heirs of the Successor Houses. )

[Goose]

I don't need knock-downs in the game: I just need to stop being teleported through units …