159 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Yokaiko, on 13 April 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

quoted deleted post

LOL, I'm not in favor of Elo in CW. I'm just explaining (over so many posts) why most PUGs who try CW eventually stop playing it. If you're a PUG and you like CW you should stay there -they're going to need you.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 14 April 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Well PGI could always go the road of compromise, limit the size of a pre-made in CW to 4 or 6 players and only allow one to each side of a match, the rest of the team being filled out by Pugs. Yes that would suck for the organized groups, limiting how many of them could play at the same time, but it would level the playing field in that both teams would be a mix of pre-made and Pug, instead of how it works now of a 12 man premade stomping 12 random strangers into the ground. Organized groups would probably hate this, but it might bring more players back into CW if they believe it is more balanced between Pugs and groups, and allows them to contribute.

[StUffz]

Ok, let me sum up a bit...

PGI...
- implemented VoiP
- added a LFG to Group up.

Pugs...
- don't listen each time to someone, who takes responsibility and organizes preparation in the Lobby. e.g. advising what mechs to use in the first drop
- don't listen each time to someone, who takes responsibility an leads the Group on he field. Instead of listening the commands in VoiP, they do as they desire.

Fixed Units
- optimize their dropdeck to ensure winning against other faction
- they use mostly Teamspeak to coordinate, in some matters, they also use VoiP
- invite other unit members or single players to their Teamspeak to Support those, who have no regular Units or don't have the Players to Play as a 12 man Group.

All in all said, own fault if pugs are not cooperative to the rest of their faction communiy.

Edited by StUffz, 13 April 2015 - 05:41 PM.

[Triordinant]

Tincan Nightmare, on 13 April 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Well PGI could always go the road of compromise, limit the size of a pre-made in CW to 4 or 6 players and only allow one to each side of a match, the rest of the team being filled out by Pugs. Yes that would suck for the organized groups, limiting how many of them could play at the same time, but it would level the playing field in that both teams would be a mix of pre-made and Pug, instead of how it works now of a 12 man premade stomping 12 random strangers into the ground. Organized groups would probably hate this, but it might bring more players back into CW if they believe it is more balanced between Pugs and groups, and allows them to contribute.

The big, organized, competitive premade groups would whine non-stop to Russ on Twitter, Reddit and elsewhere if PGI did what you suggest -and chances are it'll work because it worked before. As it is, CW will eventually become the exclusive stomping grounds of the big premades and the few soloists who enjoy it. If that happens, most soloists and small casual groups will have only PvE single-player and co-op content to look forward to (assuming they stick around).

[Romeo Deluxe]

RampancyTW, on 13 April 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

You're describing largely an issue with poor/new players, not a PUG vs. 12-man issue. If you don't have end-game content, you're going to be at a disadvantage in CW, yes. The solution to that is to get end-game content.

A CW-seasoned PUG group is going to know the maps well enough to properly communicate when to go where, and know what their mech should and shouldn't be doing in a given situation. Is the playing field fully level? Of course not. But good PUG players will stack up close enough to similarly-skilled 12-mans to produce good games and win some of them.

Bad players playing CW is not an issue with PUGs vs. 12-mans, it's an issue with bad players.

Bingo! Hence the reason to drop this "pugs don't belong in CW" crap.

[Triordinant]

Romeo Deluxe, on 13 April 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

Bingo! Hence the reason to drop this "pugs don't belong in CW" crap.

No one can tell PUGS where they do or don't belong. PUGs decide for themselves. According to Russ Bullock in the last Town Hall, only 13.5% of the entire MWO population plays CW.

[StUffz]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

PUGs decide for themselves.

Ever thought that maybe this is the reason why pugs always get screwed up?

[Triordinant]

StUffz, on 13 April 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Ever thought that maybe this is the reason why pugs always get screwed up?

It's rarely a problem in the solo-only queue. Maybe that's why the vast majority of them are there.

[Rampancy]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

It's rarely a problem in the solo-only queue. Maybe that's why the vast majority of them are there.

Most of them are also terrible teammates with no real desire to change anything they're doing to help themselves improve. This is less of an issue in short games with no respawns where a player/small group of players can carry and swing the battle in their team's favor, but the problem gets amplified in CW where an 8-mech lead can quickly turn into an 8-mech deficit when players stop acting as members of a team.

The general populace switching to CW would be absolutely brutal for the competent PUGs already participating. If Joe Mouthbreather were suddenly 9 out of 12 players on my team, I doubt I'd ever play again. No way I'm committing to a 20+ minute game with 4 of my mechs if I know there's a good chance it's going to be an exercise in utter frustration.

[Triordinant]

RampancyTW, on 13 April 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

Most of them are also terrible teammates with no real desire to change anything they're doing to help themselves improve. This is less of an issue in short games with no respawns where a player/small group of players can carry and swing the battle in their team's favor, but the problem gets amplified in CW where an 8-mech lead can quickly turn into an 8-mech deficit when players stop acting as members of a team.

The general populace switching to CW would be absolutely brutal for the competent PUGs already participating. If Joe Mouthbreather were suddenly 9 out of 12 players on my team, I doubt I'd ever play again. No way I'm committing to a 20+ minute game with 4 of my mechs if I know there's a good chance it's going to be an exercise in utter frustration.

So we are in agreement: the big competitive premades and "competent PUGs" should stay in the CW cage (because they want to) and everybody else should stay out (also because they want to).

[Rampancy]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

So we are in agreement: the big competitive premades and "competent PUGs" should stay in the CW cage (because they want to) and everybody else should stay out (also because they want to).

I suppose so.

Ideally, people would take their heads out of their butts and try to be proper teammates, but alas, people gonna people.

[Triordinant]

RampancyTW, on 13 April 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

I suppose so.

Ideally, people would take their heads out of their butts and try to be proper teammates, but alas, people gonna people.

It's folly to expect everybody else to play the way you do. Once you realize that, you'll be much happier.

[StUffz]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

So we are in agreement: the big competitive premades and "competent PUGs" should stay in the CW cage (because they want to) and everybody else should stay out (also because they want to).

Everybody is free to join CW but as a single player you should not act like superman but work with your community and with your faction. And this starts by starting to communicate with the rest. CW is the worst Dropmode for Superman, because everybody has their piece of kryptonite.

Edited by StUffz, 14 April 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[Khereg]

Tincan Nightmare, on 13 April 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Well PGI could always go the road of compromise, limit the size of a pre-made in CW to 4 or 6 players and only allow one to each side of a match, the rest of the team being filled out by Pugs.

With the population size of CW currently, this would be circumvented via synch-dropping in a span of minutes.

If it did work as intended, say by limiting the max number of identical unit tags in a drop, the larger merc groups would be dropping 2x-3x the groups they currently are as each 12-man becomes two 6-mans or three 4-mans. Strict pug v pug matches would dwindle to almost none.

Even that could be circumvented by having multiple units coordinating their drops and synch dropping as above.

Edited by Khereg, 14 April 2015 - 08:56 AM.

[WarHippy]

Avengar, on 13 April 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

this is the
Pugs vs. Pre-mades are no fun for the pugs and drives people off except for the pre-mades which will eventually drive them off because of waiting times for matches are going to get longer
pre-made vs. pre-made and pug vs. pug. this would fix most of the complaints about balance.

I almost exclusively pug and I enjoy playing against the premade groups. Stop trying to speak for all pugs when you are only speaking for yourself.

[sycocys]

No way to say this without sounding like a d-head, but if you can't be bothered to use the tools now available in-game to organize and make yourself competitive for the "end game" content of MW:O, you belong in standard drops.

The only time CW is easy mode is when pugs want to play CW like they play standard, running around aimlessly, hiding, and not utilizing any sorts of tactics or cooperation with the rest of their team.

As far as communicating goes - I play with a unit and almost never have my mic on. Relay most everything with text and it works out just fine. Do the same thing when I hub drop, but I don't play like a pug and follow the directions of the team leader, so it makes a huge difference even when I drop solo outside of my unit.

[Thejuggla]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

The reason they let PUGs play CW is to fill the gaps for premade teams with less than 12 members. Otherwise, it would take forever for the premades to find a match. Most PUGs that end up as fillers lose most of the time and eventually quit CW. A rare few lose most of the time, claim to enjoy it and keep playing CW. That means most PUGs in CW are cannon fodder. When they announced how CW worked just before they launched it, I figured out what would happen and that's why I've never played CW.

If it wasn't for pugs too, why let half groups in? If it wasn't for everyone it would be 12 man only not half groups.

[sycocys]

Thejuggla, on 14 April 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

If it wasn't for pugs too, why let half groups in? If it wasn't for everyone it would be 12 man only not half groups.

With LFG there's really little reason you should be dropping with less than 12 anyhow.

[Apnu]

Prepaid Lenin, on 13 April 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

CW is for organized groups.

It shouldn't be. "Community Warfare" should include the whole MWO community. Solos, small groups, large groups, comps, tryhards, causals, weirdo builders, freeloaders, whales -- all of us.

Within the larger set that is CW, there should be modes that cater to those subsets.

I don't have a problem with Invasion and Counter Attack modes being for tryhards who practice 2-3 hours a day. But there should be a place in the Inner Sphere for the casuals and everybody else.
As it is now, there's a lot of players going out of their way to avoid CW, and now there's more avoiding it because of the impending map reset. And then there's players how think CW is their territory and none shall pass unless they can deliver a 60 pint alpha in some metamech.

CW divides the community. There's nothing "community" about it.

PGI should ditch the public queue and move those modes (or mutators of those modes) into CW. There's no reaon why I should have to drop in a quick 15 minute game full of random factions and tech to get c-bills. Why can't I have that game, but with fellow Davions and Lone Wolves, get my c-bills and some points for House Davion? Maybe those games reinforce or erode logistical efficiency or something -- whatever it doesn't have to be fighting over some super gauss canon all the time. But the point remains: we should be immersed in the lore of Battletech/Mechwarrior with every game.

Otherwise we're leaving some of the best assets the IP has to offer on the table.

Every game played in MWO should affect the IS map in some way. The only exception would be building Solaris for the personal glory hounds -- let that be the domain of the solo comps, and incentivize players to join a faction and/or a unit otherwise. It would go miles to reinfocing player loyalty and give the game more replay-ability.

Also a Solaris ladder league of comps and tryhards would be instant Twitch gold.

Edited by Apnu, 14 April 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Apnu]

sycocys, on 14 April 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

The only time CW is easy mode is when pugs want to play CW like they play standard, running around aimlessly, hiding, and not utilizing any sorts of tactics or cooperation with the rest of their team.

Then PGI needs to quit enticing players with call-to-arms alerts every few seconds. Right now they're feeding minnows to sharks, that's just plain wrong.

They should just stop with the call-to-arms, move the public queue game modes into CW in some way. Maybe Conquest affects a planet's resource efficiency for the controlling faction or something like that. Maybe assault victories means that faction gains intel to open an Invasion game mode on the other faction. There's lots of lore ways to make the public queue game modes matter in CW w/out wrecking everything for the large units that want a deep and wide logistics and conquest game.

There's enough room at the MWO table for both casuals and tryhards. Its ridiculous there's this wall between the public queue and CW.