53 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 13 April 2015 - 06:38 PM, said:

There used to be individual skill when 8v8 was a thing.

Individual skill got drowned out a lot in 12v12.

Pretty much what he said. Even a score of 150 is not a guaranteed win in 12 v12. I prefer 8v8 for Solo-Q.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 April 2015 - 09:41 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

You can do a lot as a single player. Watch some of the top players stream while in the solo queue. Also helps to bring a mech that can help carry a game. http://metamechs.com...ists/solo-list/

[Orbit Rain]

Yes, individual skills matter, make the right decisions and you can carry a team, you can turn the tide, you can be a hero.

Versak, on 13 April 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Maybe I'm just stupid to think I can play a support role on the internet, though.

Perhaps, your skill level just isn't there to be a hero in this game yet...go in with a defeatist attitude...and you'll never get there.

[YueFei]

Tom Brady also couldn't quarterback effectively without linemen up front blocking for him.

Doesn't mean that his individual skill as a quarterback doesn't matter. It is still supremely important. But he still needs good teammates to do their job if he is to do his.

[bad arcade kitty]

people who want 8x8 because their personal skill matters more there don't realize that the less teammates you have the more important the skill of each of them is, one extremely bad player or an afker in 12v12 is way less harmful than in 8v8

[zagibu]

If both teams are random pugs without coordination, individual player skill will decide the match. Sure, you can't solo all 12 enemy mechs, but is that really necessary? Maybe stick with games that allow this, if you need it to feel good.

[One Medic Army]

bad arcade kitty, on 13 April 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

people who want 8x8 because their personal skill matters more there don't realize that the less teammates you have the more important the skill of each of them is, one extremely bad player or an afker in 12v12 is way less harmful than in 8v8

Have you ever played MWO 8v8?

I have.

At least back then what it meant was the blob was a lot more diffuse, with the lights and mediums poking the flanks, secure in the knowledge they weren't going to get alpha'd by 300+ tons of mech the second they cane around a corner.

8v8, in practice meant that a single good player was more able to cover for a bad/unlucky player, because he could survive being outnumbered long enough to put some damage out.

[pulupulu]

"Helping your team mate to kill the same target faster so both of you take less damage"
"Divert the attention of 4+ more enemies alone safely"

are probably the two most important skills imo. (aside the basic like... using a mouse)

[Roadbuster]

8vs8, 12vs12, doesn't matter.
In the past we didn't have so many high damage pinpoint alpha builds either.
Gameplay was just different.

Today, you can do some scouting. But the chances of getting hit by multiple Gauss/PPC/... from the other end of the map, or getting swarmed by 2-3 enemy mechs, are alot higher and make things more dangerous.
Same with flanking.
The thing is, if your team can't judge situations and act accordingly, there isn't much a single player can do, no matter how good he/she is.

So, my answer is: not really depends on the situation

No matter how good a single player is, if there's no teamplay, the chances of winning are slim.
If your team consists of many "skilled" players, teamwork happens automatically, because these players know how to act and react depending on the situation.

Edited by Roadbuster, 14 April 2015 - 12:35 AM.

[MoonfireSpam]

Situational awareness is the most important individual skill. It makes magic psychic teamwork happen all the time and causes people to win.

360 railgun shots across the map, 9000+ APM this game is less about

[STEF_]

It's a team based game.
Although mwo is quite far from BT, individual skills can help the team but it's not the decisive factor; so in this aspect it's quite similar to a BT scenario. (sadly we have skirmish only....)

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 14 April 2015 - 12:51 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 13 April 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

Pretty much what he said. Even a score of 150 is not a guaranteed win in 12 v12. I prefer 8v8 for Solo-Q.

So, as we were discussing in a previous thread, w/l ratio is not so decisive to see a player's skill... since in this game "victory" or "Loss",appearing at the end, are related to the team.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Come on. See the skill difference of your team. There are Timmys outside wich are not abel to hit a house ahead of them, running in mechs wich nobody with brain would even think about and not supporting the team.

Skill means: Know how to use ur mech, to equip him, to know the maps and positioning and situationsal awarness.


Skills? For shure are needed. This question alone Shows that the writer of this Topic is new ingame or hasn t played much till now.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 April 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

So, as we were discussing in a previous thread, w/l ratio is not so decisive to see a player's skill... since in this game "victory" or "Loss",appearing at the end, are related to the team.

*shaking my head*

I'm surprised that you even bothered to take those pictures into the equation. Simply cause such event happened only twice in my thousands of matches. Rare events like those have microscopic influence on my WLR. I can show you many times more screenshots of me winning the matches with such scores.

Bottom line is, if one consistently does well in his personal performance, his WLR will be better than 1:1 in Solo-Q. 12v12 had made it harder to achieve than 8v8, but the previous statement still rings true.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 April 2015 - 01:25 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 14 April 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

*shaking my head*

I'm surprised that you even bothered to take those pictures into the equation. Simply cause such event happened only twice in my thousands of matches. Rare events like those have microscopic influence on my WLR. I can show you many times more screenshots of me winning the matches with such scores.

Bottom line is, if one consistently does well in his personal performance, his WLR will be better than 1:1 in Solo-Q. 12v12 had made it harder to achieve than 8v8, but the previous statement still rings true.

*smiling*

yes, I have your point. And yes, wlr in a good player is > than 1.

But still ELO hell exists, and I really don't like such a MM system. This because I mainly drop in puglandia, and I really would like to throw this MM away...

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 April 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

*smiling*

yes, I have your point. And yes, wlr in a good player is > than 1.

But still ELO hell exists, and I really don't like such a MM system. This because I mainly drop in puglandia, and I really would like to throw this MM away...

Which is why I wish to revert back to 8v8 in Solo-Q. Not only personal performance matters more then, fewer numbers per drop will give the MM plenty of room to work with. FPS will also improve for many players, and TTK will shorten.

As long as PGI is holding off on joining Steam and flooding the game with more players, I believe that is the better option. Someone just need to convince Russ about it.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 April 2015 - 01:38 AM.

[Eboli]

Knowing your maps, speed/distances it takes to get to cover, where the enemy is likely to push, how hard you can push your mech, when to back off, reposition or when to push can make a difference to a team result. BUT to a point as you are likely to be facing an enemy player/s of equal experience.

Also all it takes is to lose some friendlies and generally the number ratio starts to take effect.

There are so many factors that come into play that can help or hinder the chances of winning or losing but I do believe that player skill/experience can still help. BUT there are those matches where you can determine right from the get go that it is not going to end well for your team no matter how well you try to carry.

That is PUG life and you just have to accept this and don't get bitter over it. If you are really getting bent over the situation then try to find a good unit to group up with to at least help reduce some negative variables.

And yes, agree with El Bandito, I miss 8 vs 8 as experience does play at bigger role IMO.
Cheers,
Eboli.

Edited by Eboli, 14 April 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[xe N on]

The prerequisite to skill in this game is:

1) Choose the right mech and equip it according to the recent meta. There are mechs and mech configurations that will gimp you severe. And there are mechs and mech configuratios that will give you a serious advantage about players with bad or mediocre mechs.

2) Win the hit reg lottery. There can be times were you fire on a shut down mech and only a fracture of the damage is actually counted.

3) Buy as many Artillery-Strike as you can and use them wisely!

Edited by xe N on, 14 April 2015 - 02:08 AM.

[xImmortalx]

Let's not get our concepts muddled up.

Choosing a good mech, putting a good loadout on it along with appropriate modules, etc is preparation. This comes from research and experience.

Skill refers strictly to what happens when in the cockpit and consists of situational awareness, movement/positioning, target selection and being able to identify and hit weak components on enemy mechs. Yes it exists but it's usually well hidden. Watch how competitive players play together and you'll realize that there's a whole meta outside of mech configuration and the usual pokefest that pugs devolve into.

Fortunately (or unfortunately for puggers like me) you can't really carry in this game like you can in an FPS. Sure, some players can get lots of damage/kills and it looks like they're doing all the work but, with very few exceptions, every kill you get is a team effort.

[Joseph Mallan]

Versak, on 13 April 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

So in a nutshell, this game sucks if you're playing alone, but games like this are generally about "Eh I'm gonna play a few rounds by myself after work then do something else" to a lot of people.

Maybe I'm just stupid to think I can play a support role on the internet, though.

Here's the thing. You are never playing the game alone. you are playing it with 23 other people ever time.If you are not thinking, "How can I help the team?" You are the reason you are not having fun.