92 replies to this topic

[Ano]

addressing two posts here from the same person:

Darth Bane001, on 15 April 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Trash talking because you lost or because you won...dude what are you in your 50's or something how can you not be used to this kind of gaming culture at this point. you are coming off pretty newbie in your perception of gamers. I grew up with this kind of stuff you basically adapt. I do believe you can put people on ignore thats what the feature is their for.

Disliking something enough to want it to change is not the same thing as not being able to cope with the thing. Personally, I find the "it's the INTERNET, you have to accept everyone being awful all the time" attitude thoroughly depressing.

Darth Bane001, on 15 April 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

I agree I feel socieity has gotten way too sensitive everyone wants to get someone in trouble for no reason other than it makes them feel special. Like for example facebook I cant post an opinion on something without someone trying to skin me alive over it
...
*stuff about a facebook joke I didn't quite understand*
...
thats whats happening with society anymore you cant say anything someone else will be offended about even your own family wont have your back.

This was pretty hard to read, so I'm not sure if I missed something, but honestly: if a big chunk of your family are telling you that you're being insensitive or an ass or somesuch, perhaps it's time to consider the possibility that rather than being over-sensitive, they're right. Hell, IMO your family are supposed to be the people who tell you when you're doing it wrong (whatever "it" is) -- they love you and want to help you.

Darth Bane001, on 15 April 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

My point is just ignore them and move on. Hell troll them if they cant get over it go around in circles and do nothing for like half the match and then just quit out if after you actually tried to do well but had a bad round your aiming hand getting sore or something and just cant land those lucky shots then screw them.

No. Have some class. Play the game, or don't play the game, but don't play it to deliberately spoil it for others, even if you don't like them or you feel they've wronged you in some way.

[Iskareot]

This anger feeds me. Hate made you cookies. As for people being called out for being stupid or doing wrong things... I say RAGE ON... until they make a better MM system tiered for player level or length in game etc... this will happen.

Do not force me to carry the idiot out driving in circles in the middle of the water while he team shoots the wrong guy in the back and this will get better.

-- Dont have time to make a pro group or CW team etc... like to pug off the cuff but it does not mean those people need to suck and go by the excuse "That's a pug for ya"... type crap. From Nascaring... to Spreading out to the four corners of the map in Skirmish... there is idiots... and until you call them out or even rub them in it - they will not learn. Until it is against the rules to call them out for it.. I say do it all day long.

[AssaultPig]

a lot of the time the guy that plays aggressively early in the match is gonna be the guy who dies first, but that doesn't mean he was wrong. 95% of the time aggressive play is gonna win in pub matches, but people are too afraid of having their paint scratched to follow through on it.

the C3 rush on frozen city is an excellent example because the playerbase at large seems to have kind of picked up on it, and when a pub team commits it works almost every time. You can do similar stuff on other maps, but most people are so risk-averse that they'd rather let another member of the team scout with their face while they hang back plinking (and usually claiming that they're a 'support' mech.)

somebody's gotta be the tip of the spear, and pretty often that guy's gonna die early (especially if the team doesn't come with.)

Edited by AssaultPig, 16 April 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Ano, on 16 April 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

It might well be my fault that I did something wrong. But it's 100% your fault if because you're annoyed, you choose to rant and rave at me like a deranged gibbon.

Always the same answer, from the same angle.
It's always the provoked's fault, never the provocateur.
The provoked must change so the provocateur can just carry on.
But when I ask, does that cycle ever end? If the person acting as the provocateur never changes, they will just carry on provoking others endlessly. Causing the same misery over and over and over....


If one person "bottles it up" then provocateur moves on to the next person, who has to bottle it up...and so on. Maybe further down the line that one provocateur has affected 50 people when the solution is for that ONE person to change so 5o others don't have to.


I realise the above has little bearing on MWO but I am dumbfounded by the position of "it's your fault for getting angry" when that anger requires outside input.....half the ragers in MWO games would not rage if people didn't play so passively/block/ignore the team etc.
The rage takes at least two to tango.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Iskareot: "and until you call them out or even rub them in it - they will not learn. Until it is against the rules to call them out for it. I say do it all day long."

If your goal is to get them to be better players, that's not how it works. By your own standards, your ignorance of how to coach and lead your team makes you "the idiot out driving in circles in the middle of the water". And by your own rules, that means we get to grief you "all day long", right ?

But I don't think you really care about bringing noobs up to speed. Better teamplay is not your goal. You need them to bully, so that you can feel better about your own worthless life. To forget why your father is ashamed of you.

When my team loses, we get 2 kinds of feedback. We get people like you, who we laugh at. And we get people who instead say things like "we lost because we didn't support the push" or "we were too spread out". See the difference? When you do, let us know, and we'll stop laughing at you.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 16 April 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[lsp]

The foul word used to describe homosexuals? What, gay or ***?(not really foul) And also, my family wouldn't hold me back at all. You must have the white picket fence tv show family. well I don't, if anything my family would beat me to it, I grew up with Iron workers/carpenters and criminals.(they yell, don't talk, and every other word is a "foul" word) In short, my family are ******** and much worse than I am, so no, them being there would have no effect.

This post is unnecessary, If you can't handle text in a video game or on the internet, you are really in for something when you step out into reality. People now days are just too sensitive, and to use the common interweb argument against you, if someone came up to me in reality and was just randomly insulting me, I would just say what ever and walk off. Know why? Becuase here in the United States we have this thing called the U.S. constitution, and in the U.S. constitution is the first amendment. People can say anything they want to you, regardless if it pisses you off or you don't like it. Unless it's a threat on your well being or on someone else, that's a different story.

Edited by lsp, 16 April 2015 - 01:16 PM.

[Black Phoebe]

lsp, on 16 April 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Becuase here in the United States we have this thing called the U.S. constitution, and in the U.S. constitution is the first amendment. People can say anything they want to you, regardless if it pisses you off or you don't like it.

The first amendment does not give you the right to ignore PGI's CoC in game or on this forum. In these locations you are not allowed to say whatever you want, you have to obeye their rules, no matter what country you are from (beside the fact that the american constitution is of minor interest to a canadian company).

I'm pretty sure, that the first amendment was not made to protect some guy who likes to insult people in the internet, because he doesn't like how they play. I'm also pretty sure that even in the United States people have to refrain from using the n-word or other racials slurs in tv, radio or other media or they will face the consequences. So this " I can say whatever i want wherever i want" is actually not correct.

The first amendment is no "free from jail card" that allows you to insult whoever you want, its a political privilege that should be honored. Maybe it is just me, but i think that you spit into the faces of your founding fathers every time you use your constitution to justify rude and insulting behavior, no matter if its in the internet or the real life.

Edited by Black Phoebe, 16 April 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

lsp, on 16 April 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

If you can't handle text in a video game or on the internet, you are really in for something when you step out into reality.

Actually, I've found that to be quite a load. "Reality" is a patchwork of different environments. A lot of professional places don't particularly want any old thing being said. Even if you can behave like that in certain offices, "reality" includes staying aware of the offices where you can't. You walk into someone else's carefully cultivated atmosphere and put your feet up on their couch (metaphorically) by using coarse language, and you might just find yourself "a poor fit" (fired). Yes, that's personal experience. Call them "oversensitive" all you want; it won't get you your job back. And if you reply "Well, then I wouldn't want to work there", then you've revealed how subjective a thing it is for you.

People inherently respect someone who doesn't need to swear every third sentence. It shows they can communicate without it. The people I have the most time for will occasionally use strong language when it fits the flow of their words, but mostly stick to words with actual meaning. They also rarely insult people, even when insulted themselves, instead brushing things off and replying amiably and with substance. Aren't those the forum posters YOU look up to most?

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 16 April 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[cSand]

Ah yes the old

"I can be a ***** to everyone, cause FIRST AMMENDMENT YO"

Pretty sure that's totally missing the point of your constitution

[Soulscour]

People are competitive. Some people can't play in team games very well. This thread isn't going to change that. If you can't ignore certain people, the internet is not for you. If you feel abused, report it. I think I've reported just two team killers since beta. Other than that language is easily ignored, even when voice chat was just implemented and a player decided to use voice chat for racial slurs.

[WazOfOz]

Whiners will whine. The anonymity of the internet has brought these cockroaches out of their dark corners. If face to face with people they choose to abuse, they would scurry back under the fridge.

[lsp]

Black Phoebe, on 16 April 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

The first amendment does not give you the right to ignore PGI's CoC in game or on this forum. In these locations you are not allowed to say whatever you want, you have to obeye their rules, no matter what country you are from (beside the fact that the american constitution is of minor interest to a canadian company).

I'm pretty sure, that the first amendment was not made to protect some guy who likes to insult people in the internet, because he doesn't like how they play. I'm also pretty sure that even in the United States people have to refrain from using the n-word or other racials slurs in tv, radio or other media or they will face the consequences. So this " I can say whatever i want wherever i want" is actually not correct.

The first amendment is no "free from jail card" that allows you to insult whoever you want, its a political privilege that should be honored. Maybe it is just me, but i think that you spit into the faces of your founding fathers every time you use your constitution to justify rude and insulting behavior, no matter if its in the internet or the real life.

I'm not going to address your full statement, but I was not refering to the internet in my second paragraph. And second, the first amendment or anything in the constitution is not a "privilage".

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This part right here "prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech" means yeah, people can speak their mind regardless if someone else likes it or not. It's called liberty, you should come to the U.S. and try it out. And if you're already in the U.S., enjoy.

Edited by lsp, 16 April 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[lsp]

Rebas Kradd, on 16 April 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

Actually, I've found that to be quite a load. "Reality" is a patchwork of different environments. A lot of professional places don't particularly want any old thing being said. Even if you can behave like that in certain offices, "reality" includes staying aware of the offices where you can't. You walk into someone else's carefully cultivated atmosphere and put your feet up on their couch (metaphorically) by using coarse language, and you might just find yourself "a poor fit" (fired). Yes, that's personal experience. Call them "oversensitive" all you want; it won't get you your job back. And if you reply "Well, then I wouldn't want to work there", then you've revealed how subjective a thing it is for you.

People inherently respect someone who doesn't need to swear every third sentence. It shows they can communicate without it. The people I have the most time for will occasionally use strong language when it fits the flow of their words, but mostly stick to words with actual meaning. They also rarely insult people, even when insulted themselves, instead brushing things off and replying amiably and with substance. Aren't those the forum posters YOU look up to most?

That has nothing to do with my statement. Of course you will be fired if you act unprofessional at your place of business, depending on where you work. Think you guys are taking me the wrong way, I'm not some douche who just walks around and insults people every where I go. My point being is, get over it. I get ragged on and insulted by my own family, and I don't even have to walk out the front door for that. So don't get your panties in a bunch over something on the internet. I'm so tired of political correctness and "hate speech" non sense.
I don't "look up" to anybody.(except grunts) Specially not some guy who makse comments on the internet.
Oh, and the worst thing I say in game is probably GG close, that seems to piss people off.(lol)

Edited by lsp, 16 April 2015 - 08:00 PM.

[lsp]

cSand, on 16 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Ah yes the old

"I can be a ***** to everyone, cause FIRST AMMENDMENT YO"

Pretty sure that's totally missing the point of your constitution

Individual liberty is the point of the U.S. constitution, so no, it's not missing the point. And yeah, if someone wants to walk around and be a **** their entire life, they have every right to. But some one will eventually pop them one, because not every one cares about the law.

Edited by lsp, 16 April 2015 - 07:40 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Alistair Winter, on 14 April 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

You don't need to be worried. Everything will be alright in time. Years in the future, mankind will have gradually grown more wise and there will be less abuse on the internet. It's still fairly new to us. But right now, it's pretty harsh. And sensitive people, like me, should learn to either switch of the chat when they feel the toxicity is too much to handle, or just grow thicker skin and deal with it.

You may think I'm just drinking the internet gamer kool-aid. If you think so, click this spoiler.

Spoiler

I actually don't like kool-aid. It's too sweet and I don't like the false flavouring. I enjoy a good, tart cider. And a good cheese sandwich. With strong mustard and onions.

I'm just gonna bring this post up from the first page like a jackass to say

Man, I like you. You made a good post, and you should feel good about it.

Spoiler

not even kidding btw

oh god i just realized people were being wrong on the internet i must act!

You guys attempting to bring up the first amendment are silly. Simply because speech in a PUBLIC venue is protected (although with suspension of habeus corpus and general shadiness of certain law enforcement, they'll put you away if they wish, indefinitely and regardless of the constitution ), speech in a PRIVATE venue is not.

PGI has set in stone a code of conduct restricting certain language and behavior. They're in no way bound to allow anything they don't wish.

Now, believe me, I would rather there be no filters whatsoever. I am a strong proponent of complete free speech in any venue that I own. So far that has been a single Day of Defeat Source server. Good thing I don't own MWO, right?

IDEAL SOLUTION INCOMING, NERDS READ HERE: Several easy-to-use and intuitive options restricting certain words, player names, and easy methods of instantly and permanently muting players. This way, someone can easily prevent themselves from viewing material they find inappropriate, but those that revel in witnessing childish behavior from others (read: me) can also have their fun.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 16 April 2015 - 07:47 PM.

[lsp]

Soulscour, on 16 April 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

People are competitive. Some people can't play in team games very well. This thread isn't going to change that. If you can't ignore certain people, the internet is not for you. If you feel abused, report it. I think I've reported just two team killers since beta. Other than that language is easily ignored, even when voice chat was just implemented and a player decided to use voice chat for racial slurs.

I've never reported anybody, ever, in any online game. It's the equivalent of dailing 911 because some one insulted you, it's ridiculous. If it's harassment, then it's justified.

Edited by lsp, 16 April 2015 - 07:54 PM.

[Iskareot]

Fenrisulvyn, on 16 April 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Iskareot: "and until you call them out or even rub them in it - they will not learn. Until it is against the rules to call them out for it. I say do it all day long."

If your goal is to get them to be better players, that's not how it works. By your own standards, your ignorance of how to coach and lead your team makes you "the idiot out driving in circles in the middle of the water". And by your own rules, that means we get to grief you "all day long", right ?

But I don't think you really care about bringing noobs up to speed. Better teamplay is not your goal. You need them to bully, so that you can feel better about your own worthless life. To forget why your father is ashamed of you.

When my team loses, we get 2 kinds of feedback. We get people like you, who we laugh at. And we get people who instead say things like "we lost because we didn't support the push" or "we were too spread out". See the difference? When you do, let us know, and we'll stop laughing at you.

Ahh there ya go.... I laugh and know people that laugh at people like you.... we wonder, "Hmm this guy actually thinks I am in the game right now to teach and educate when people won't listen anyway".... AND there is your answer.

First issue you have -- YOU THINK I AM THERE TO TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY.

Wrong... I am not and expect people to not be stupid. Know when to somewhat go in back off, not block and not shoot each other... call me nutty... (Now I do not blame people like you that think we should teach.. but I blame PGI somewhat and also the players or new players or bad players to be allowed to play with the tier I want to play at. ) i.e. Tiered MM system. I am not asking for some leet force.. or super squad of **** players. - I AM ASKING for the team not to shoot each other.. know not to do stupid **** at a level that you would be boggled for the entire drop.

Second issue... YOU ASSUME because it is a PUG it is "Ok to lose because that is how they go"... With that said.. sure there is a certain amount of expected fails... but there is no reason to be flat out stupid. Most people can at least stay with a group and drive a mech... (AGAIN I said most)... with exceptions... but this goes back to the PGI issue of not teaching them better or making the system keep those people together to learn longer... there is no reason to let them off the hook though.

We constantly laugh at the people that think it is ok to run away or hide and cower in corners of the map... while expecting to have thier hand held and be told "Its ok you didn't push right so lets try it better next time and you will get a cookie"...

Yeah not here to do that... Knock yourself out and make a guide maybe for people if you have that time. Noob or not... you do not have to do stupid crap.

[Joseph Mallan]

Black Phoebe, on 16 April 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

The first amendment does not give you the right to ignore PGI's CoC in game or on this forum. In these locations you are not allowed to say whatever you want, you have to obeye their rules, no matter what country you are from (beside the fact that the american constitution is of minor interest to a canadian company).

I'm pretty sure, that the first amendment was not made to protect some guy who likes to insult people in the internet, because he doesn't like how they play. I'm also pretty sure that even in the United States people have to refrain from using the n-word or other racials slurs in tv, radio or other media or they will face the consequences. So this " I can say whatever i want wherever i want" is actually not correct.

The first amendment is no "free from jail card" that allows you to insult whoever you want, its a political privilege that should be honored. Maybe it is just me, but i think that you spit into the faces of your founding fathers every time you use your constitution to justify rude and insulting behavior, no matter if its in the internet or the real life.

Actually what's bold means I CAN say what I want when I want because as I am willing to accept the results.

One of the funniest things I learned in my Diversity Training at work is I have to accept everyone who who they are... Unless they are a bigot! Discrimination is discrimination. Just cause you wanna silence a jerk for being a jerk does not make you a better person than the jerk.

[Ano]

kamiko kross, on 16 April 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Always the same answer, from the same angle.
It's always the provoked's fault, never the provocateur.
The provoked must change so the provocateur can just carry on.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my meaning here -- sorry about that.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that someone keeps walking into your firing lane, or are probably going to die pretty quickly if they keep wandering off on their own, or hide at the back throwing rocks or whatever. That's good for everyone, both the "provoked" and the "provoker".

The problem is with how you do that.

"Ano: get back to the group in C2 otherwise you'll get focused and dead, fast"

"Ano you stupid noob, are you a ******? Why aren't you in C2, were you dropped on your head a child?"

One of those is advice, the other is an insult. I don't think the insult helps anyone.

[Ano]

lsp, on 16 April 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I'm not going to pretend to be a constitutional scholar, but the key part here is the "Congress shall make no law", as far as I'm aware. It's about preventing the US government from restricting speech. So all it really means is that the US government can't come yell at you if you say something they don't like (although there are a bunch of exceptions).

That's why I'm always a little confused when people bring up the 1st amendment in the context of a forum, or game, or many other private venues. The 1st amendment (as best I understand it) doesn't really apply in those circumstances -- which is why forums and games and websites with comments can and do have posting rules/codes of conduct etc which explicitly forbid specific types of speech (e.g. racist, sexism), specific topics (there are plenty of forums that don't allow discussion of religion/politics) or specific words (swearing filters etc).