169 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Ok, that "battletech game" under "MWO" is related quite only about mechs, I know.

But lemme tell you something about playing BT TT, even with double blind roles.
Let's pretend ecm and null signature system are the same stuff....as PGI is pretending they are.

This is a map, initial turns, double blind rule and ecm or even with null signature system.



But then, proceding with the turns, thanks to scout etc., we have this:






Now in all previous mw and in MWO, while piloting a mech, the most important part of the screen, (and thanks to it you to have ideas and planning a strategy) is THIS: (this should be BT stuff in the mwo screen!!):



and then, thanks to scout and whatsoever, in later minutes (turns in BT) we should have THIS:





BUT, thanks to the weird manner pgi has planned Jesus box, and thanks to Griffin 2n, shadowcat, artic cheetah, black knight coming, and all previous ecm jusus box mechs, we can predict that that important part of planning and SEEING in the map our beloved doritos...is prolly screwed up.

I don't care if "yes, but there is voip" "but there is teamwork", "there is BAP", and this kind of runaround. I care about having that fricking radar screen working and being useful. Because it's the only part of BT we can have, imo.

now two hypothesis:

1) REWORK ECM. No more teamates coverage, at least.

2) LIMIT the number of Jesus box mechs in a team per drop.


"ecm. ecm everywhere" is stupid.

Discuss.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 17 April 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[Deathlike]

Remember that secret committee used to address ECM?

Yea...

Good luck with that.

[STEF_]

We need to start a campaign "a la Urbie".

I cannot say if pgi listens to the community only if they can see a possibility to make money.
But we should give a try, at least.

Deathlike, on 17 April 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

Remember that secret committee used to address ECM?

Yea...

Good luck with that.

yes I remember.
That's why I entered the second hypothesis: do not change ecm, but at least let's limit the number of ecm mech per team.

[Deathlike]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 April 2015 - 12:21 AM, said:

yes I remember.
That's why I entered the second hypothesis: do not change ecm, but at least let's limit the number of ecm mech per team.

I don't think they are going to mess with the MM for just ECM anytime soon™.

[STEF_]

Deathlike, on 17 April 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:

I don't think they are going to mess with the MM for just ECM anytime soon™.

Gimme hope, man!!!!

I need hope!!!!

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 April 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

I don't care if "yes, but there is voip" "but there is teamwork", "there is BAP", and this kind of runaround. I care about having that fricking radar screen working and being useful. Because it's the only part of BT we can have, imo.

now two hypothesis:

1) REWORK ECM. No more teamates coverage, at least.

2) LIMIT the number of Jesus box mechs in a team per drop.


"ecm. ecm everywhere" is stupid.

Discuss.

Yes. Current ECM is a must have if it is on a chassis, and that is dumb. The info denial of GECM (which should be renamed to AECM) is even more powerful than anti-LRM function.

[Otto Cannon]

I'd be ok with ECM if it just affected the mech carrying it, and it'd still be worth using like that. I just think it's beyond ridiculous to have something that's already overpowered and non-canon cover an entire team.

[Sjorpha]

Completely disagree, targeting mechs is super easy now. Too easy. Should be harder, the radar should be less reliable in some environments with interference and false positives and such.

[Quxudica]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 April 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

Ok, that "battletech game" under "MWO" is related quite only about mechs, I know.

But lemme tell you something about playing BT TT, even with double blind roles.
Let's pretend ecm and null signature system are the same stuff....as PGI is pretending they are.

This is a map, initial turns, double blind rule and ecm or even with null signature system.



But then, proceding with the turns, thanks to scout etc., we have this:






Now in all previous mw and in MWO, while piloting a mech, the most important part of the screen, (and thanks to it you to have ideas and planning a strategy) is THIS: (this should be BT stuff in the mwo screen!!):



and then, thanks to scout and whatsoever, in later minutes (turns in BT) we should have THIS:





BUT, thanks to the weird manner pgi has planned Jesus box, and thanks to Griffin 2n, shadowcat, artic cheetah, black knight coming, and all previous ecm jusus box mechs, we can predict that that important part of planning and SEEING in the map our beloved doritos...is prolly screwed up.

I don't care if "yes, but there is voip" "but there is teamwork", "there is BAP", and this kind of runaround. I care about having that fricking radar screen working and being useful. Because it's the only part of BT we can have, imo.

now two hypothesis:

1) REWORK ECM. No more teamates coverage, at least.

2) LIMIT the number of Jesus box mechs in a team per drop.


"ecm. ecm everywhere" is stupid.

Discuss.

I say if they are going to change ECM in such a manner, they need to change the whole radar system.

I really dislike that every mech has magic red boxes showing the entire team where the enemy is just by looking at them. Transmitting target data between teamates is supposed to, and should require the player bring along the neccisary targeting computer.

The game would be a lot more fun if we had to use our eyes to spot enemy mechs more often, instead of having red boxes show where anything is as long as it's in front of us.

[kesmai]

Come on. Where's my active radar, my passive radar and my MAD?

quitE a feW things are missing. But hey we get more mechs more meckpacks.
woopdidoo.

[STEF_]

Quxudica, on 17 April 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

I say if they are going to change ECM in such a manner, they need to change the whole radar system.

I really dislike that every mech has magic red boxes showing the entire team where the enemy is just by looking at them. Transmitting target data between teamates is supposed to, and should require the player bring along the neccisary targeting computer.

The game would be a lot more fun if we had to use our eyes to spot enemy mechs more often, instead of having red boxes show where anything is as long as it's in front of us.

Wrong, targeting comp is not necessary to transmit datas in BT.
MW should not be similar to counterstrike and those fps games.

And let's face it: we already have now 2 dollar camera with face tracking, face recognition option: does PGI really think that in 3050 mech camera and hud are not able to do track and recognize enemy mechs once with LOS???
Come oooooooon, men

edit: my weird english, sorry

edit2: and in your opinion, limiting ecm to cover only the mech with it OR limiting the numer of ecm in a team, why should pgi also rework the entire radar system? There's no reason at all, imo.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 17 April 2015 - 04:20 AM.

[Quxudica]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 April 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Wrong.
I suppose you like counterstrike and similar games. Nope. bt and mwo are not those games.

And face it: we already have now 2 dollar camera with face tracking, face recognition option: do you really think that in 3050 mech camera and hud are not able to do track and recognize enemy mechs once with LOS??? Come oooooooon, man

Target data transmission is supposed to require a c3 command computer and slave computers on all connecting battle mechs. Without that we aren't supposed to be able to transmit combat data the way we currently do. By all rights each game should have at least one command mech unit that if destroyed seriously impairs or outright removes the ability of the team to share combat data with each other.


Also, using the real world tech argument is a far to common thing that completely misses the point. Real world tech doesn't matter to the BT universe because it doesn't exist in the BT universe. BT is based on the future of the 1980's and even then the creators of the world left things even more primitive in some areas than they were back then. MWO may take place in 3050, but it's an extremely primitive 3050 based on alternate history using some extremely primitive computer technology.

[STEF_]

Quxudica, on 17 April 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

Target data transmission is supposed to require a c3 command computer and slave computers on all connecting battle mechs. Without that we aren't supposed to be able to transmit combat data the way we currently do. By all rights each game should have at least one command mech unit that if destroyed seriously impairs or outright removes the ability of the team to share combat data with each other.


Also, using the real world tech argument is a far to common thing that completely misses the point. Real world tech doesn't matter to the BT universe because it doesn't exist in the BT universe. BT is based on the future of the 1980's and even then the creators of the world left things even more primitive in some areas than they were back then. MWO may take place in 3050, but it's an extremely primitive 3050 based on alternate history using some extremely primitive computer technology.

Nope.
C3 and command C don't work so.
They are not used to target and transmit datas.

Anyway, I assure you that in whatsoever mission, campaign or scenario, there is not such a inflated ecm spread everywhere....

Returning on my point: "ecm. ecm everywhere is dumb"

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 17 April 2015 - 04:27 AM.

[Quxudica]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 April 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

Nope.
C3 and command C don't work so.
They are not used to target and transmit datas.

Overview

Normally carried by the lance commander, the C3 Command Unit is the hub to which three C3 Slave Units on other friendly 'Mechs can connect. However C3 Command Units can also be linked in this manner to expand the network, the command units of each of lance commanders can be connected to a second separate command unit carried by the company command 'Mech/vehicle. Due to complexity required to coordinate C3 networks, they can not be expanded beyond company size, or multiple companies linked together, even with the addition of extra command vehicles. The limitations in unit size are part of the reason for the ComStar developed Improved C3 Computer.

As well as serving to share the linked lance/companies targeting data, the C3 Command Unit also duplicates the function of Target Acquisition Gear and can designate a target for Arrow IV homing missiles and Semi-Guided LRMs.
A C3 Command Unit is typically carried by a heavy or assault 'Mech due to its the larger size and weight, and its importance as the hub of a C3 network. Outright destruction or interruption by ECM of a command unit is quickest way to bring down the portion of the C3 network it controls.

Edited by Quxudica, 17 April 2015 - 04:28 AM.

[STEF_]

Quxudica, on 17 April 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Overview

Normally carried by the lance commander, the C3 Command Unit is the hub to which three C3 Slave Units on other friendly 'Mechs can connect. However C3 Command Units can also be linked in this manner to expand the network, the command units of each of lance commanders can be connected to a second separate command unit carried by the company command 'Mech/vehicle. Due to complexity required to coordinate C3 networks, they can not be expanded beyond company size, or multiple companies linked together, even with the addition of extra command vehicles. The limitations in unit size are part of the reason for the ComStar developed Improved C3 Computer.

As well as serving to share the linked lance/companies targeting data, the C3 Command Unit also duplicates the function of Target Acquisition Gear and can designate a target for Arrow IV homing missiles and Semi-Guided LRMs.
A C3 Command Unit is typically carried by a heavy or assault 'Mech due to its the larger size and weight, and its importance as the hub of a C3 network. Outright destruction or interruption by ECM of a command unit is quickest way to bring down the portion of the C3 network it controls.

Yes, this is the definition.
BUT, do you know or ever use them in a BT game?

That stuff gives you A DICE BONUS hitting the enemy.
Has this something to do with the Jesus box we have now?
Just asking, because ECM in BT has nothing to do with PGI ECM, too

Again, you didn't asnwer why having ecm mechs everywhere should be cool.

Because imo it is not at all.

[Quxudica]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 April 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

Yes, this is the definition.
BUT, do you know or ever use them in a BT game?

That stuff gives you A DICE BONUS hitting the enemy.
Has this something to do with the Jesus box we have now?
Just asking, because ECM in BT has nothing to do with PGI ECM, too

Again, you didn't asnwer why having ecm mechs everywhere should be cool.

Because imo it is not at all.

I never said it was, I just said the radar system should be much more robust than it currently is. Personally I think we should have passive and active radar modes we can toggle. Passive provides lower range of detection and can't see over large obstructions, active greatly expands your detection radius but also lets enemy mechs in passive mode detect your location. Further there should be radar associated equipment we can bring to boost the functionality at the cost of weight and crit slots, and some mechs shoulder have Quirks improving their sensor range (you know, to actually encourage role warfare instead of having every mech built like an assault).

I forget who wrote it up but there was a huge post floating around here a long time back that detailed a really in depth radar system overhaul that took into account everything from passive/active modes to radar footprint sizes for larger and smaller mechs and a redesign to lock on weapons associated with radar.

I'm not a huge fan of the way they implemented ECM, I think it's shallow and doesn't make for interesting gameplay. But I also think the lock on functionality of LRM's is equally horribly designed and weakening ECM promotes their use.

I also think having the player rely more on their own situational awareness, needing to actually identify enemy mechs themselves instead of counting on magic red boxes to show you makes for better game play. In my perfect MWO the paint system would be more than just an overpriced cash grab for PGI, camo would serve real practical functions as radar would be less of an all seeing omniscient eye,

[jayg20769]

What is a jesus box? ECM?

[LordBraxton]

Im a CBT fanatic, but I totally disagree with the OP.

I dont like ECM buuuuut,

I think the Doritos should go away in general,

and target information sharing should only happen on IS mechs who invest in C3 computers. It should cost tonnage and be unavailable to clans.

[3xnihilo]

I think it would be great if certain mechs had scouting capabilities. Like all enemy mechs visible to the scout show up as yellow Doritos that are visible but not targetable by the whole team. This would allow scouts to scout without having to key in locations. You could add some depth to this by making it necessary to hold the reticle over the target for a short period of time so that the mechs don't magically appear but have to be actively seen by the scout. Ecm would not counter this as it is simply simulating calling out mech locations based on LOS. this way ecm still counters LRMs but it is not total stealth mode either.

[LordBraxton]

3xnihilo, on 17 April 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

I think it would be great if certain mechs had scouting capabilities. Like all enemy mechs visible to the scout show up as yellow Doritos that are visible but not targetable by the whole team. This would allow scouts to scout without having to key in locations. You could add some depth to this by making it necessary to hold the reticle over the target for a short period of time so that the mechs don't magically appear but have to be actively seen by the scout. Ecm would not counter this as it is simply simulating calling out mech locations based on LOS. this way ecm still counters LRMs but it is not total stealth mode either.

that sounds like role warfare, get out of here with your good ideas heretic, we scrapped role warfare long ago, when we realized timber wolves cost more MC.