102 replies to this topic

[Martel66]

I'm an "old guard" player. I played when it was called Battledroids. That original set came with ten mechs, eight of which are still missing in MWO. We need our: Stinger, Archer, Warhammer, Phoenix Hawk, Marauder, Crusader, Wasp, and Rifleman.

I understand PGI would have to change the look because of all the copyright BS, and I'm Fine with that! Just give us something that captures the spirit of the originals and we'll buy it!

[Mars2]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Reseen Whammy is the ugliest Whammy ever. What was used as the WHM-IIC shoulda been the Whammy.

I want Swords Marauder! But if not I will be more than happy with his Whammy!

[Dawnstealer]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

It's not what would actually win in a court of law, it's finding something so different that HG won't put out a frivolous suit. Because the threat of a lawsuit PGI cannot even afford to fight.

If the Bar was that low, the Macross Unseen would be prominently reseen and featured under the new stuff.

I wonder what the IP laws are like in Canada - being a foreign entity might actually benefit PGI: especially if the loser in a lawsuit has to pay all the court fees.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Eh, I'm older guard then most of them, and don't give a crap. I want my Warhammer.

I understand that sentiment, but a Warhammer is a Warhammer and just slapping the name Warhammer on something that isn't a Warhammer just doesn't seem right to me. If you are a fan of Camaros or Mustangs and someone came along in VW Bug with a Mustang/Camaro name plate on it and said here is your new Mustang/Camaro somehow I doubt you are going to feel the same way.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dawnstealer, on 17 April 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

I wonder what the IP laws are like in Canada - being a foreign entity might actually benefit PGI: especially if the loser in a lawsuit has to pay all the court fees.

Not really most of their customer base is USA. And that would mean blocked content to their primary customers.

[Dawnstealer]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

Not really most of their customer base is USA. And that would mean blocked content to their primary customers.

And PGI's not a large company...

Damn. Well, I STILL want my Archer, Marauder, and Warhammer. Maybe a Crusader. Stinger, Wasp, etc.

[Soul Tribunal]

WarHippy, on 17 April 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

I understand that sentiment, but a Warhammer is a Warhammer and just slapping the name Warhammer on something that isn't a Warhammer just doesn't seem right to me. If you are a fan of Camaros or Mustangs and someone came along in VW Bug with a Mustang/Camaro name plate on it and said here is your new Mustang/Camaro somehow I doubt you are going to feel the same way.

Have you not seen the abominations that FORD itself has put the Mustang Logo on over the years? 80's-95 were basically the joke of the Muscle Car era on that thing.
Car Analogies here won't work.

If they can truly make it re-seen and use it, I say go for it. Its not like the designs we see now are 100% to what was drawn so long ago. Let the artist make something that we can use.

-ST

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 17 April 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

I understand that sentiment, but a Warhammer is a Warhammer and just slapping the name Warhammer on something that isn't a Warhammer just doesn't seem right to me. If you are a fan of Camaros or Mustangs and someone came along in VW Bug with a Mustang/Camaro name plate on it and said here is your new Mustang/Camaro somehow I doubt you are going to feel the same way.

That is true. But where does it end? I liken the "Old Guard" to those who only consider the 1960s Camaros and Mustangs "real ones". Which means overly myopic, to the point of being detrimental to the brand itself. Every model of each builts since Day 1 is "real", some being more popular and well thought out than others. But then, there are also those who LOVE Fox Body Mustangs, and the 80s IROCs, or the new Versions, etc.

Not talking about calling a Beetle a Mustang, or even a New Beetle a real Beetle (I mean, they made if fwd and put the engine on the wrong side. New Beetles are like the Reverse-Flash villain of Beetleland.)

As long as it captures the FEEL and basic concept, and has all the gear in the right place, It's a Whammy.

[CptGier]

StaggerCheck, on 17 April 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Just grab some intestinal fortitude and have Alex redesign the Mechs so that they are PGI originals and slap the name Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, etc. on them. I'm tired of hearing about Harmony Gold says no to this, Harmony Gold says no to that. Screw them if they can't be bothered with profit sharing. At least 99% of the population here understands the situation and the fact that the Mechs cannot resemble the Harmony Gold licenced product. Just wing it already.

Id say wing it, but PGI has this nasty habit of putting tiny ass guns on everything. I mean, can you imagine the Rifleman with its 4 LPL little piddly pods? yikes.....Or the Warhammer with tiny guns? Or when we put a LPL in the top gun pod on a Warhammer and it turns into a little nub?

Otherwise, YES! PGI GO FOR IT!

[Metus regem]

Dawnstealer, on 17 April 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

I wonder what the IP laws are like in Canada - being a foreign entity might actually benefit PGI: especially if the loser in a lawsuit has to pay all the court fees.

Oddly enough, since so much of our laws, customs, education, foreign policy and economics are so tied into the US versions of that, it is often safer for us to just do what the US does.

[WarHippy]

Soul Tribunal, on 17 April 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Have you not seen the abominations that FORD itself has put the Mustang Logo on over the years? 80's-95 were basically the joke of the Muscle Car era on that thing.
Car Analogies here won't work.

If they can truly make it re-seen and use it, I say go for it. Its not like the designs we see now are 100% to what was drawn so long ago. Let the artist make something that we can use.

-ST

The car analogy works just fine. Either way while the designs we see now are not 100% of what their original look were they are more often than not close enough. The problem with the HG mechs is that close enough gets you sued. If we can't have something close enough to maintain the look/feel I would rather they just not add those mechs.

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

That is true. But where does it end? I liken the "Old Guard" to those who only consider the 1960s Camaros and Mustangs "real ones". Which means overly myopic, to the point of being detrimental to the brand itself. Every model of each builts since Day 1 is "real", some being more popular and well thought out than others. But then, there are also those who LOVE Fox Body Mustangs, and the 80s IROCs, or the new Versions, etc.

While those 80s Mustangs/Camaros had their fans both companies with their newer versions are pushing for the throwback look with certain design elements because that is what people want not something that is a Mustang/Camaro in name only. They lost sight of the FEEL and basic concept people are saying can be kept here with things like the Warhammer. I just have my doubts that it can be done in a way that isn't a complete travesty. I'm not totally against a redone Warhammer, but I would need to see a large sampling of concept art that has been officially ok'd by HG as being acceptable that still maintains that feel before I would be onboard with it.

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

As long as it captures the FEEL and basic concept, and has all the gear in the right place, It's a Whammy.

How does one capture the FEEL and basic concept and still have it look different enough not to get PGI sued? What makes a Warhammer feel like a Warhammer or any mech for that matter is what it looks like everything else is just variations of the same stats and numbers for weight and equipment.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 17 April 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

And if PGI does go ahead, and deviates too far from the source material, they would lose the nostalgia aspect of the mechs. And lets face it, a Marauder with a new skin is just an Orion. And the Warhammer is just a reskinned Catapult/Cataphract.

You mean the Cataphract is the legal stand-in for the Marauder and the Warhammer's legal stand-in was the Thug? Just like Jager was the replacement for the Rifleman and the Archer was replaced by the Catapults. BTech is full of mechs that get deprecated by other mechs.

[Soul Tribunal]

WarHippy, on 17 April 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

The car analogy works just fine. Either way while the designs we see now are not 100% of what their original look were they are more often than not close enough. The problem with the HG mechs is that close enough gets you sued. If we can't have something close enough to maintain the look/feel I would rather they just not add those mechs.
While those 80s Mustangs/Camaros had their fans both companies with their newer versions are pushing for the throwback look with certain design elements because that is what people want not something that is a Mustang/Camaro in name only. They lost sight of the FEEL and basic concept people are saying can be kept here with things like the Warhammer. I just have my doubts that it can be done in a way that isn't a complete travesty. I'm not totally against a redone Warhammer, but I would need to see a large sampling of concept art that has been officially ok'd by HG as being acceptable that still maintains that feel before I would be onboard with it.
How does one capture the FEEL and basic concept and still have it look different enough not to get PGI sued? What makes a Warhammer feel like a Warhammer or any mech for that matter is what it looks like everything else is just variations of the same stats and numbers for weight and equipment.

Sorry but the 80's Mustangs had ZERO of their Pedigree. The only reason they were a mustang was because Ford put the Pony on them.
Design evolution happens. I think they could get the 'feel' of the Unseen without making HG come after them.

And 60-70% of something is better than 0% and never getting them.

-ST

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Soul Tribunal, on 17 April 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

And 60-70% of something is better than 0% and never getting them.

Nope. I want something that is as close to the TRO3025 as possible or nothing at all.

I don't want my childhood memories ruined by some badly redesigned something.

[Metus regem]

Sthtopokeon, on 17 April 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Nope. I want something that is as close to the TRO3025 as possible or nothing at all.

I don't want my childhood memories ruined by some badly redesigned something.

I'd say they did a great job with the MWO Centurion, what about you? What do you think of it?

It has all the feel of the TRO 3025 Centurion, but way more style.

[pbiggz]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Eh, I'm older guard then most of them, and don't give a crap. I want my Warhammer.

Im probably the youngest old guard there is, and I say redesign away. Just dont make them suck.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Metus regem, on 17 April 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

I'd say they did a great job with the MWO Centurion, what about you? What do you think of it?

Sorry, but that mech is none of my favorites. The MWO Cent has shoulders that are way too wide and the head is too small. Plus, it is too big for its weight. Should have looked like the MWO Enforcer looks now. Except for the head.

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

You know, a skinny King Crab would look pretty good as a Marauder, IMO.

[Johnny Z]

Dawnstealer, on 17 April 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

I, too, am incredibly ancient and would be fine with something that gets the "feel" right. Like a lot of you, the old Macross mechs never really fit the BT meta in looks, so something redesigned would be just fine by me.

Well i have the mind of a 5 yo and I really would like to see mechs that strongly resemble the originals.

I think its totally possible that we could see these in game some time.

[Hollow Earth]

I've been suggesting something like "parody" versions of the unseen with new names. They would still have the same stats and hardpoints as the originals. that way the originals won't have to be modified so (maybe) people wont think that the original designs will be ruined.
For me, i'm interested in the hardpoints for these mechs since the Warhammer, Archer and Crusader seem like really balanced designs to play with.
Some examples:
Warhammer = Greatsword
Archer = Streltsy
Crusader = Conqueror
Marauder = Raider
Phoenix Hawk = Flamebird
Rifleman = Minuteman
Longbow = Houyi