102 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 17 April 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

And have my elbows shot off by a stray MG bullet? No thank you

better than looking like the Marauder equivalent of a Buddha Statue

[Bishop Steiner]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

better than looking like the Marauder equivalent of a Buddha Statue

I actually rather like the Reseen, jsut feel it needs a better artist and proportions. And guess what? We go the the better artist. Name is Alex.

And what I would love to see him do with this:

or this

boy howdy.

[Impyrium]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but that looks way more like a Marauder II than a Marauder. Far too bulky, IMO.

Needs to be gangly and insectoid, or it ain't a MAD, to me.

See? No one can agree, lol.

Well, the Timber Wolf was supposed to be lean and bird-like, but they managed to bulk-alise that one. I've been beaten into submission enough to accept it now though.

[Bishop Steiner]

AUSwarrior24, on 17 April 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

Well, the Timber Wolf was supposed to be lean and bird-like, but they managed to bulk-alise that one. I've been beaten into submission enough to accept it now though.

Yeah but look how much bulkier all the models seem to get over the art. Now start with a Mech that had a few to many donuts and think about the giant Shamu Porker we'd get in game. Marauder would come out looking like a sloppy MWO iteration of the Super Nova

[Roadbuster]

I don't have a problem with the Marauder looking a bit more "massive".





The most important things are the bird legs the low slung arms (King Crab and Timber Wolf arms are a nice reference) and the shoulder mounted ballistic.

I'm just happy to know that there is a slight chance to see a Marauder in MWO.

[Joseph Mallan]

JagdFlanker, on 17 April 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

from yesterdays town hall:



from what i understand HG could only license the Robotech storyline and not any of the mecha designs so any Sony movie would not include the original mecha designs. but the possibility of seeing an altered Marauder and Warhammer? could be interesting, even if a modified version of the Marauder would have to be stunning for me to like it...

Couldn't Sony buy HG? Not that I want someone that big owning the IP.

Stupid Sony is the only Studio that won't let Emagine give me a free pass EVER no matter how many movies I see.

[Tarogato]

If PGI's interested in testing the waters, then I think Alex should draw multiple concepts and put them up to a poll, asking if the community would accept each one in turn. Starting with the Marauder, since it seems to be the most coveted.

Personally I find the official reseen Marauder to be completely unacceptable. It doesn't resemble a Marauder at all and I would be very displeased if it were used because it doesn't capture the character of the mech. I also think a redesign with any amount of faith to the original shouldn't be too bulky. Lastly, that autocannon barrel has to be dead center, not offset.

Other than that, I welcome attempts at redesigning the mech and I'm willing to accept something slightly different as long as it has the right personality about it.

P.S., this is my favourite redesign of the ones I've seen so far:

Spoiler

Edited by Tarogato, 18 April 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[Gagis]

Roadbuster, on 18 April 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

This is what I imagine my Marauders looking like in tabletop RPG campaigns etc. It's the marauderiest Marauder for me.

[Zookeeper Dan]

I'm sure PG could make designs based on the unseen that would be different enough that they would not be in violations of HG's copyrights. The problem is that HG sues it\f there is any hint of someone using their designs. Small companies can't afford the legal fees so they don't even attempt to fight.

This is what happens when HG takes on a large company:

http://www.animehera...case-dismissed/

They will say that nobody won, but part of the settlement was that HG could never sue Hasbro again on this issue. I think HG saw that they picked a fight they couldn't win and didn't want the smaller companies that they've been bullying to have legal precedent.

[Tarogato]

Danth Reduviid, on 18 April 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

I'm sure PG could make designs based on the unseen that would be different enough that they would not be in violations of HG's copyrights. The problem is that HG sues it\f there is any hint of someone using their designs. Small companies can't afford the legal fees so they don't even attempt to fight.

This is what happens when HG takes on a large company:

http://www.animehera...case-dismissed/

They will say that nobody won, but part of the settlement was that HG could never sue Hasbro again on this issue. I think HG saw that they picked a fight they couldn't win and didn't want the smaller companies that they've been bullying to have legal precedent.

Reading that short write-up made me think of two cats cl... well... let's just say HG is the cat on the right.

[OznerpaG]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 April 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

Couldn't Sony buy HG? Not that I want someone that big owning the IP.

Stupid Sony is the only Studio that won't let Emagine give me a free pass EVER no matter how many movies I see.

from what i understand HG is mostly into real estate now so if Sony buys HG they would be buying a lot of land lol

Roadbuster, on 18 April 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

Bishop Steiner, on 17 April 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

i definitely love Alex's design the most, but the 2nd pic torso design is pretty good too. the biggest thing about the Marauder for me is not having a cockpit canopy - it just doesn't look "Marauder-y" with one

Edited by JagdFlanker, 18 April 2015 - 03:20 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Got to thinking about it. The Cauldron-born / Ebon Jaguar, minus the missile pods, looks almost close to what a revised Marauder would look like.

vs

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 18 April 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[Anjian]

Low slung arms is just trouble for this game because it means you are going just going to hit the environment. The geometry sensitive maps means to be competive you need high torso mounts, yet those long arms are the visual trademark for the Marauder. Its going to mean a lot of legal hassle for a design that will inevitably piss players off in Community Warfare.

Sometimes I feel the Macross designs need to be forgotten totally. These are mech designs for a universe that works totally differently from Battletech, and functionally doesn't fit in its theme. The Marauder is a Zentraedi Battlepod, its not even a mech, more of an exosuit or vehicle for an alien giant. It also flies in space. The Phoenix Hawk, Wasp, Stingers are based on Valkryies, which transform into F-14 like planes and fly in air and space. Warhammer and Rifleman were AA defense mechs aboard the SDF Macross.

In contrast Battletech is much more closer, almost completely aligned with the Dougram series --- all terrestial, mechs meant to be realistic, battles over political dominance and intrigue. This series is where the Battlemaster, Shadowhawk, Thunderbolt, Wolverine and Griffin comes from. Chunky, squarish, industrial, with shoulder weapons and rocket packs on the shoulders. As Battletech moved from copying mecha from Japanese anime to its own design IP, the original designs started to reflect more on the Dougram heritage than on Macross, and subsequently that is how it all went.

Dougram introduced characteristic features that are now signature traits in Battletech, like framed cockpits, shoulder and forearm mounted weapons. A science fiction universe has to set some design rules which must be followed. In Star Trek for example, the ships must have an even (not odd) number of engine nacelles and the nacelles must have a clear unobstructed view of the front (since they suck in cosmic particles and are converted to energy via antimatter reaction).

But of course, you can always redesign the Macross Unseen along these lines but in the end its not going to look like what they were originally (which is actually a legal advantage) but I'm not sure if it would make the fanbois happy.

Edited by Anjian, 18 April 2015 - 11:01 PM.

[Roadbuster]

Anjian, on 18 April 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

Low slung arms is just trouble for this game because it means you are going just going to hit the environment. The geometry sensitive maps means to be competive you need high torso mounts, yet those long arms are the visual trademark for the Marauder. Its going to mean a lot of legal hassle for a design that will inevitably piss players off in Community Warfare.

While it's true that high hardpoints are an advantage, I still see alot of mechs with low situated hardpoints, and they are doing quite well.
Also, the Marauder would have a high ballistic hardpoint.
I think it would be viable *looks at trashcan Urbie*...yes it would be viable.

[WhoDidTheElf]

This is all you need to know. Captures the "essence" but looks unique enough.

[WarHippy]

Soul Tribunal, on 17 April 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Sorry but the 80's Mustangs had ZERO of their Pedigree. The only reason they were a mustang was because Ford put the Pony on them.

If these possible crappy revisions of the Warhammer and Marauder were called Warhammer II (Warhammer Fox Body) or something to that extent you might have a point, but what we are talking about is the original Warhammer not some later version that came out years later and had a different look. The 80s Mustang wasn't the original Mustang it was an 80s Mustang and had a different look. Giving a complete revision of the original Warhammer to avoid being sued would be akin to making the original Mustang look like the 80s Mustang and asking people to be ok with it because hey the name is the same and revisions happen.

Soul Tribunal, on 17 April 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Design evolution happens. I think they could get the 'feel' of the Unseen without making HG come after them.

Design evolutions do happen, but it happens further down the production line as new models are developed and released. What we are talking about is ignoring the original with retroactive evolution of the design.

Soul Tribunal, on 17 April 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

And 60-70% of something is better than 0% and never getting them.

-ST

Like I said I'm not entirely against a revision being made, but I really don't think they can get the "feel" of the original and it still be legally viable. If they can get some concept art out that is true to the original, and has the OK from HG then great but I won't hold my breath.

[Malleus011]

Another old grognard chiming in - I want my Warhammer and my Archer. Cut Alex loose and redesign them as you will, just get the 'mechs in game.

[CDLord HHGD]

FupDup, on 17 April 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

I'll probably eat some flak for this, but I honestly think that many of the unseens looked terrible anyways. Being redesigned would be an improvement, provided that we didn't just use the reseen art (which is almost as bad or sometimes even worse).

I have no doubt that Alex could work his voodoo on all of them and make them magnificent. However, like the Phoenix pack mechs, they'd need to be based off the originals. IMHO, the Project Phoenix (reseen) mechs look really bad (I do accept a couple) and don't remind me of the originals at all. 'Course for unseen, that reminder is part of the problem. But I'd rather have no unseen than a bad unseen. Sorry!

Edit, guess I'm REALLY late to the party....

Edited by cdlord, 20 April 2015 - 08:55 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

In Alex I trust.

[Soul Tribunal]

WarHippy, on 20 April 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

If these possible crappy revisions of the Warhammer and Marauder were called Warhammer II (Warhammer Fox Body) or something to that extent you might have a point, but what we are talking about is the original Warhammer not some later version that came out years later and had a different look. The 80s Mustang wasn't the original Mustang it was an 80s Mustang and had a different look. Giving a complete revision of the original Warhammer to avoid being sued would be akin to making the original Mustang look like the 80s Mustang and asking people to be ok with it because hey the name is the same and revisions happen.
Design evolutions do happen, but it happens further down the production line as new models are developed and released. What we are talking about is ignoring the original with retroactive evolution of the design.
Like I said I'm not entirely against a revision being made, but I really don't think they can get the "feel" of the original and it still be legally viable. If they can get some concept art out that is true to the original, and has the OK from HG then great but I won't hold my breath.

Tell ya what, I have figured out how to make your car Analogy work.

You and I, unless rich or Lucky will never, ever own a 1965(4 1/2) Mustang. The original. The beginning of a Era/Generation.
But, if we have $30-40K we can Own something that now with some retro redesign has the same proper Pedigree and feel of what the Mustang should be.

Is it not worth it, since lets face it HG Is NEVER going away to get something that is the Evolution of a Design, enough so we can actually Have it instead of it being a dream?
It would seem that the theme in this thread and many others on it is about the same. Re-seen the design and get us into some classic mechs.

And I would wager that if Russ had the gumption to do a Poll, you would see the Majority of the 'Old Guard' outweighed by those of us that understand the reality of the situation and are okay with it.

-ST