134 replies to this topic

[Psydotek]

Deuteranopia here. It's not that I can't see red or green, but rather the colors don't really POP out at me unless they're super bright. When looking at darker or shades of red/green of similar contrast to, I have a hard time distinguishing between them.

For a nice example of a game with colorblind setting, see Invisible Inc. from Klei Entertainment.

[Texugo87Mk2]

Not colour blind per se, but have abnormal colour vision, certain shades of yellow, green, brown, and grey get mixed up for me. Being able to shift some HUD colours around would be nice, but not essential.

I have a hard time telling the yellow and green used for optimal range and above optimal range but still in range apart. Also the missile bay door indicator being yellow for closed and green for open is basically useless for me.

[Raubwurst]

I have to admit, that I didn'r read all of the posts. Thus I'm sprry if it has been said before:
We had a friend which we showed MWO and he was colorblind (sadly I cannot remember which exactly). He had a big problem with the yellow interface of IS-Mechs.
He could get the color difference between the hud and the map, which made playing woth IS-Mechs almoste impossible for him.

(Don't know if it is the kind of information you want, or if it is too vague :/)

[Josef Koba]

I'll state up front that I am not color blind, and if I were my career would have been very different as I was an intel analyst in the military. Being color blind means you can't read maps, and maps are a big thing for intel weenies. That said, I do think that implementing some sort of assistance for those pilots who are color blind (to whatever degree) would be an awesome thing if for no other reason than it will encourage them to stick around. Though in fairness, it sounds like a few of our color blind comrades have powered through anyway. Still, I think that it would be great for them to be able to more effectively play this game.

Moving on, I would ask that if such changes are being considered that we discuss whether or not they would be user-dependent or would take place across all players' experiences. I really like the colors in MWO as they currently are. I think that, for the most part, they are solid for immersion purposes. I don't think that having such changes be implemented on a player-specific basis, like a settings option, would constitute giving anyone an unfair advantage, though it could be argued that those of us who are not color blind have an advantage already. In any case, anything that helps us maintain (or expand) our player base is a good thing from my perspective.

Edit: I said "that said" twice and it annoyed me.

Edited by Josef Koba, 18 April 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Asrrin]

Hey Tina!

I have a very mild red/green deficiency, actually just got diagnosed by the optician a month ago! I don't have a problem differentiating most green and reds in a vacuum, but if you present both to me together and turn down the saturation, they both end up looking a muddy brown. So bright greens definitely look green, and bright reds definitely look red, but the duller shades start to blend together.

I don't notice it much on the HUD because the colors are bright, but some of the maps are especially hard to see without the contrast boosting night vision or heat vision. Forest Colony and Viridian Bog seem to be the worst offenders for me, even when I have clear line of sight certain mechs blend into the lanscape for me.

Anyways, that's just my two cents.

EDIT: Upon further review, I would have to agree with the paper doll. Apparently there is more to it then yellow, orange, red, and cherry red? I thought the orange range was all one color.

Edited by Asrrin, 18 April 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

MercJ, on 17 April 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

I'm red/green colorblind, apparently, according to those stupid color dot tests. Hasn't really been much of an issue for gaming, although the color blind mode in the Battlefield series made a nice difference for me. I guess it's one of those things where you don't necessarily know what you're missing anyway

I can't think of a specific scenario, right now, in MWO, that I've been confused by any set of similar colors. I'll be thinking about it though, and will update if I notice anything. I'd rather have more FPS and a clearer HUD and UI anyway

EDIT: the below image is an example - have no clue what's in there, just looks like a bunch of dots. Frankly, this is the only scenario that I notice it. Might make a decent camo option, now that i think of it EDIT AGAIN: NO WAY!! On a white background, it's hard for me to see it - on the dark forum background, I think I see some green stuff in there. Is it a 21?? AM I CURED??!?!

It is a 74.
(But I can see where it tries to trick you.)

Edited by Nathan K, 18 April 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[Insects]

If your interface works in black&white then you are on the right track.





Room for improvement there with the doll and hud contrasts.

Really you can take a lot of the statistical complications out by just making the colors user configurable, even if just via edited xml file to save on UI work.

- HudCrosshairs
- HudEnemy
- HudFriendly
- DollMinor
- DollMedium
- DollCritical
- NightvisionHue

[Koniving]

MercJ, on 17 April 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Not sure if I'm interpreting this right, but rows 4, 7 and 8 in the chart you linked all look different than the original block/color to me.

EDIT: Looking at it further, I'd assume that you're supposed to pick the column that most closely matches the original, and that would be your "type"? In that case, the Deutan column is probably the closest match, followed by the Protan (pretty close too). The Tritan is way off for me, looks mostly pink.

Row 4, 7 and 8...
Row 4: Bluish green, Faint greyish brown, dull greyish brown, greenish blue.
Row 7: A type of red (it says vermillion but pfft, red). Deep brown. Brown. Pinkish red.
Row 8: Reddish purple. Muted blue. Greyish muted blue. Brownish purple.

For someone who sees color.

I gotta ask which blindness she has, but I've got a colorblind girlfriend that I often have to point out colors for. Her favorite color is yellow. According to the colorblind app she has on her phone that'll let other people see colors as approximated by the kind of colorblindness she has, yellow shows as pink. But actual pink looks like a kind of muted grey-brown vomit and she hates 'real' pink. She still thinks I'm full of it when I tell her that the bedroom walls through her phone's app look pink.

On a side note, one of the paintings she did looks warm and beautiful, as if on a twilight evening with clouds colored in purples and blues.
Through her phone, I see the colors as she intended. It changes the entire scene to something bleak and morbid, the figure standing with an umbrella surrounded by harsh stormclouds.

It's amazing what a change of color palette, or the perception of that palette, will do to an image.

[Shell Game]

Quit frankly, I don't appreciate the enemy having Red Doritos above them, this makes target recognition very difficult. Yellow or green would make this much easier...

[POWR]

Not colorblind, but I do appreciate the feature for those who are.

[Sjorpha]

IronChance, on 17 April 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

3) Weapon charge up indiicator pips on the main HUD. Unless I am staring directly at them, I can't tell when these pips change color. Combine this with the inability to adjust the gauss rifle charge up volume independently of the master volume and the gauss rifle is a weapon that is nearly impossible for me to use with any proficiency.

I'm not colour blind and can see the charge, but even so it is very inefficient to rely on the charge (which is out of focus when aiming, or the sound (which may be drowned out in combat).

The best way to get good with gauss rifles is simply to train until the timing is fully internalised so you don't need any charge indicators. I can fire my gauss just fine no sound or visual input now, and the combat efficiency is way up because of it.

[Hawk819]

Tina,

I'm not exactly color blind per se. However I am legally blind in my Left eye. So CB helps me read the screen better. It'd be most helpful to the community and myself if this could be implemented.

[Shinikake]

If you want more information on colour blindness:
http://www.colormatt...color-blindness

Also here is a test (also referenced in the previous link):
http://www.colour-bl...ur-test-plates/

And now IMHO:
You guys should focus on implementing a colour blind mode and/or the ability to adjust the colours ASAP as you would immediately increase your player base.

Just imagine trying to play but you can't tell who is an enemy and who is an ally.

[UwasaWaya]

Hi Tina. I made a post here and on Outreach, but I don't know if you'd seen it. I'm the guy who posted the question (and posts it for every Q&A), and this is the write up that I did to give you an idea of what I would like to see altered to make the game more accessible to us.



IS HUD targeting reticle - The green/yellow color tends to be difficult to see on maps like Bog or Forest Colony, where the background colors can blend in. Oftentimes I find myself firing wildly off target, or having to use a laser as a tracer. The easiest fix would be a toggle to Clan blue (but not the layout, I'd not want to strip the unique design) as blue is the most accessible and vibrant color for deuteranopes and protanopes. Tritanopes should be ok with those toggles as well, though I'd have to look into it... and tritanopes are very rare. (Fun tip, green lights at stop lights are partially blue because of this)


Missile door light - The little light on the cockpit that shows whether the missile doors are open or not is impossible to distinguish. To me, they're completely identical. The easiest fix would be to just have the light black and then turn on to yellow when open, or again switch one to blue and one to red (blue/red has a fantastic contrast for us).


Seismic Sensor readings - The red blips are occasionally hard to make out on the maps at times. Again, a toggle to blue or just a darker, sharper red would help.


Damage Readouts - I have a tough time telling which parts are more damaged until they become red. The various shades tend to be tough to pick out, which can lead to confusion when deciding where to target... and again, blue/red or blue/yellow toggle would work well. Weapon ranges also fall into this... sometimes it's hard to pick out when a weapon toggles to yellow, though this for some reason isn't as bad.


Targeting boxes - The red targeting boxes tend to vanish amidst the backgrounds, and the designations for the pilot and their mech are difficult to read at times. Maybe a contrasting border around the words? Something to bring it out of the background a bit?


Night Vision - This one's a tad obvious, and likely intentional, but night vision becomes kind of a mad jumble of moving colors... though that might be how it's supposed to look. Oddly, the old blue vision was perfect.


It's tough to really explain how things get so mixed up... mostly because I have no idea what not being color blind looks like, and I don't know how to set a filter for you to see it like we do.

The nice thing is that using the blue/red/yellow contrast will make it accessible for deu and pro colorblind types, and the original palette likely would be fine for tri, though again, I don't know much about them.

I appreciate you taking the time to read through these. It does mean a lot.

Edited because I suck at formatting.

Edited by UwasaWaya, 19 April 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Gorgo7]

Void Angel, on 17 April 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Nice "constructive post;" your speaking privileges are revoked. /ignore.

Really? I post against spending on this topic and suddenly I'm a troll? How about you personally pony up $10,000 to correct this "issue". Most men are color blind to some degree, Personally I have trouble with greens and blues. It doesn't stop me from playing this game. It doesn't stop me from walking down the street or having a job.
I'm sure you could say the same.
Worry about custom colors after we are out of Beta, that's my take on this topic and it is a valid, constructive one.

Wo0t, on 17 April 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

The troll is strong with this one.

No trolling just my opinion which is as good as anyones in this thread. I am in fact answering the thread consisely. I am not attacking anyone or trolling. I imagine that "Meh" is what hurt your feelings. Sorry about that.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

I'm not colorblind at all. However, most 'mechs with missile bay doors, I can't find the blasted light. So that is... I guess an ancillary alteration that could stand to be made.

[Psydotek]

Gorgo7, on 19 April 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Really? I post against spending on this topic and suddenly I'm a troll? How about you personally pony up $10,000 to correct this "issue". Most men are color blind to some degree, Personally I have trouble with greens and blues. It doesn't stop me from playing this game. It doesn't stop me from walking down the street or having a job.
I'm sure you could say the same.
Worry about custom colors after we are out of Beta, that's my take on this topic and it is a valid, constructive one.

No trolling just my opinion which is as good as anyones in this thread. I am in fact answering the thread consisely. I am not attacking anyone or trolling. I imagine that "Meh" is what hurt your feelings. Sorry about that.

It's not about ponying up $10k, it's about developers making the game accessible to a wider audience which in turn may generate more profit for them.

If there was zero money to be made in making a color blind mode then I doubt they would even consider it.

However, I'd wager that any sunk cost and overall risk is pretty minimal compared to the potential reward. More people playing means more potential people paying. Additionally, developer goodwill goes a looooong way in some gaming communities to generate sales.

[-JD-]

Since I've been making a pain in the az of myself about this recently, I figure I'll throw in my 2 centavos.

Personally I have an awful time with the red targeting reticles, and the red text on the dark grey "highlighting" on the HUD. To me the latter is a washed out blob of color that doesn't even look like letters and numbers, and the former...?

Well imagine my surprise when after playing this game for a couple of months I was informed by my buddies who were helping me experiment with this stuff, that the target reticle turns red when you hit something! From my perspective it was just disappearing completely most of the time, which made it difficult to track a moving target... and explains why I would get lots of assists but could never kill anything.

Well, maybe not entirely. I suspect that happens because I just plain suck... but this certianly doesn't help!

I was also surprised to learn that my little icon on the map is yellow while everyone else in my lance is green. Not that it's crtitical to game play (like targeting reticles) but I really can't distinguish between them.

My guess is that my perspective on this is perhaps not unique, but one of many possible perspectives based on one's particular type and severity of "disability".

From what I understand there are so many different types of color blindness that trying to come up with a "color blind setting" is probably not the right way to approach this. I would think that the right thing to do here would be to provide us (and I mean everyone... I'm sure even those with perfect vision would benefit as well) with an interface whereby we can customize the individual or color grouped HUD component colors to taste (eg, change all the red components to this, or all the green components to that). As a second, or perhaps an interim option, why not just expose the HUD RGB values in a CFG file like you do for mouse performance, etc.? This way we can tweak it so that it works best for each of us.

I've seen this HUD color tweaking via CFG thing done in several games. If you google for "HUD colors config" you'll find it's rather common. Granted, most of these are probaby single player games, but I don't think anyone would argue that it represents some sort of cheat or unfair advantage.

JD

[Insects]

Gorgo7, on 19 April 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Really? I post against spending on this topic and suddenly I'm a troll? How about you personally pony up $10,000 to correct this "issue"

Lol $10k, where do people get the crazy price estimations for this game?

It should be a very simple task to add color selections to one of the config files, no big drama.
It should be over and done with in a couple of hours. Russ should have simply told one of the programmers to have it implemented before lunch.

[Gorgo7]

Oh yeah...couple of hours...