33 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Spleenslitta, on 18 April 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

Changed the poll significantly. (may have gone overboard) Thanks for the headsup.

That's what hit me too. It would be like an ammoless hot gauss rifle with smaller range. No 3x maximum range though.
What traits could we put on the Binary Laser to keep it fair? Maybe get a burn duration of more than 1 second? I'll put that in the poll too.

But yes. I do like the Bombast Laser more to be honest. It's lighter and smaller for the same range and damage potential.
The reason i put up this thread about the Binary Laser instead is the timelines these 2 weapons are released.
Either weapon would be fine with me actually. I'll add a question to the poll just for this.

I had no idea about that stuff regarding mech variants and their designations.

As for the BL firing 2 lasers at the same time causing coding problems. Maybe just make a thicker beam or just plain change it's color?
Pink laser with sparkles? XD

Boating won't be a problem if PGI says: This weapon is so rare.... so outright badass that a mech can only mount 1 Binary Laser.
Yes i know....players will still think the side they are fighting against is OP.

I try my best to remain neutral but whenever i see clan weaponry i just drool...
But then i pity the clanners for their difficulties. So many things in their mechs that cannot be altered.
i honestly cannot make up my mind which side has it easier.

eeh,

I may be biased. I would say IS have it easier as in many cases quirks makes things a lot more easier or superior for IS.

For eg an ER large laser that has longer range, shorter duration, less heat, more DPS, etc. While only disadvantage is being 1 slot higher (not that much considering now it's 2 slots...). That being one example.

Another is +10 tons in CW and all the variants.

Variants > Configs.

Because there are MANY underpowered configs the Stormcrow and timberwolf have if you keep stock omnipods or do not do meta. However with omnipods I doubt PGI will see Timberwolfs anything but the same mech over and over with different c-bill prices to buy and exchange pods.

My fear is that we will never see a UAC jam chance reduction on a timberwolf, or a SSRM 6 cool down or ER PPC heat reduction to the respective alt.configs.



Getting away from the "ranty" side of this comment.


Yea, designations of mechs play a huge part, Ranging from how it's formated...


[cypher] - [numbers (lots of digits, eg 3) ]
[cypher] [number] - [letter] [number]
[cypher]-[cyher][numbers]

Etc!

For eg...

KGC-000b
HGN-732b

two mechs with similar cypher structures and also have an additional b on the end meaning an SLDF variant. (sometimes they don't have this, ie the Griffin 2N I believe, which has no b, this could be cypher differences though)

However... the HGN-733p and 733c are different, they symbolise things that isn't strictly a variant... picture it as a sub variant so to say or a field modification.

Cyphers are quite usefull when you understand them BUT do be warned, just because it's a bigger number, letter, etc... doesn't make it newer.

For eg the Direwolf W is more older then the Direwolf S.




back on topic with rarity. Look at couldron born, this thing was made in 3050 and was rushed to the IS asap because smoke jaguar started struggling, it only saw combat in 3052.

even then ,this thing is so rare that clans outside of smoke jag called it by the inner sphere reporting name couldron born instead of it's original name Ebon jaguar because they didn't know about it because how rare it was.


Also I just wounder if rarity should be a thing in this game?... economics of RnR will counter and eat into that a lot when it's back I guess....



Also. the part where you make it fire 1 laser instead of 2 kinda ruins it iconicy.

that's like removing the hunch of the hunchback.




Anyway, another thing striked my mind... Is this thing really worth the trouble? Lets take a step back. This thing is fun but would it be practical?


We still need more hero mechs for the wolverine and thunderbolt. After this all the clan hero mechs and later on the Resistance mechs need heros as well.
The resistance two is on the horizon and clan IIC mechs also.

More game modes for the normal public matches and more community warfare matches as well.

Steam launch, UI 3.0, Gifting MC, Repair and Rearm. Solaris VII, Single Player Campaign. Heat effects like to hot = ammo explosions even if you didn't over heat. above 90 % heat you got a chance to over heat. at high heats your mech will be slower. Other things like PPC's hitting a mech will cause HUD glitching and spazing for a few seconds and if your head is critical your hud glitches and you can't zoom in anymore.
Other things like making Flamers balanced and work right and having clan balanced a bit more. Removing the dreaded machine gun bugs with MACRO that is very serious and all sort of things like that.

Not saying the Blazer is a bad idea. But I think we have quite a lot on the plate already. I would like the Blazer to be released when Solaris VII is out as well as the Arrow, Long Tom, Plasma, Chemical lasers, and especially the bomblast laser.

It fits relatively well. Bombast laser specifically being famous in Solaris VII. Also by then we would have quite a lot of stuff done.

I mean if thing really is needed and fits, go right ahead. but PGI is getting quite a lot of stuff on the plate.

[Egomane]

I never said anything about hardpoints. I said it creates balance issues.

But let's stay on the topic of rarity as I introduced it originally:
There is also the difference between rare or unique and extinct or forgotten.
- Rare or unique (like unique mech variants) means it is in use by someone
- Extinct or forgotten (like the Blazer) means nobody has seen it, heard of it or knows how to rebuild it.

A new variant is a modification of an existing chassis.
A new weapon, even if it was only forgotten before, is still a new weapon.

You are proposing a new technology that will see plenty of other tech reintroduced or developed before it is ever seen again on the battlefield. Before we should get the Blazer, there are MRMs, ATMs, stealth armor, Light and Heavy Gauss Rifles, inner sphere targeting computers, triple strength myomers, rotary ACs, heavy lasers and more. If we have to introduce new tech, then let's go in order of appearence or reintroduction instead of randomly adding something from this timeline or that one just for the sake of adding something.

[Spleenslitta]

Egomane, on 19 April 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

I never said anything about hardpoints. I said it creates balance issues.

But let's stay on the topic of rarity as I introduced it originally:
There is also the difference between rare or unique and extinct or forgotten.
- Rare or unique (like unique mech variants) means it is in use by someone
- Extinct or forgotten (like the Blazer) means nobody has seen it, heard of it or knows how to rebuild it.

A new variant is a modification of an existing chassis.
A new weapon, even if it was only forgotten before, is still a new weapon.

You are proposing a new technology that will see plenty of other tech reintroduced or developed before it is ever seen again on the battlefield. Before we should get the Blazer, there are MRMs, ATMs, stealth armor, Light and Heavy Gauss Rifles, inner sphere targeting computers, triple strength myomers, rotary ACs, heavy lasers and more. If we have to introduce new tech, then let's go in order of appearence or reintroduction instead of randomly adding something from this timeline or that one just for the sake of adding something.

Now i can kinda relate to what your saying when you put it this way. I see the point now. Thanks for sticking around Egomane.
As for the hardpoint issue. I swear i saw that mentioned....Must be seeing things. But i haven't touched a drink in ages.

If you were offended by anything i said i give you my sincere apologies Egomane.
As you know a lot of players tend to rather....stubborn on these forums when it comes to something they have a strong opinion on.
I was the stubborn one this time.

Regardless discussing it still won't hurt since someday it could come out. Having this thread full of ideas could be beneficial for PGI.

Nightshade24, on 19 April 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:

Also. the part where you make it fire 1 laser instead of 2 kinda ruins it iconicy.

that's like removing the hunch of the hunchback.

Anyway, another thing striked my mind... Is this thing really worth the trouble? Lets take a step back. This thing is fun but would it be practical?

We still need more hero mechs for the wolverine and thunderbolt. After this all the clan hero mechs and later on the Resistance mechs need heros as well.
The resistance two is on the horizon and clan IIC mechs also.

More game modes for the normal public matches and more community warfare matches as well.

Steam launch, UI 3.0, Gifting MC, Repair and Rearm. Solaris VII, Single Player Campaign. Heat effects like to hot = ammo explosions even if you didn't over heat. above 90 % heat you got a chance to over heat. at high heats your mech will be slower. Other things like PPC's hitting a mech will cause HUD glitching and spazing for a few seconds and if your head is critical your hud glitches and you can't zoom in anymore.
Other things like making Flamers balanced and work right and having clan balanced a bit more. Removing the dreaded machine gun bugs with MACRO that is very serious and all sort of things like that.

Not saying the Blazer is a bad idea. But I think we have quite a lot on the plate already. I would like the Blazer to be released when Solaris VII is out as well as the Arrow, Long Tom, Plasma, Chemical lasers, and especially the bomblast laser.

It fits relatively well. Bombast laser specifically being famous in Solaris VII. Also by then we would have quite a lot of stuff done.

I mean if thing really is needed and fits, go right ahead. but PGI is getting quite a lot of stuff on the plate.

Does the Binary or Bombast have to be released right now? Nope. Egomane is right about this.
Egomane made me realise i don't want these weapons out right now as much as i want them out someday in the future.
That they become a part of MWO someday is most important.


As for the Clan/IS balance issue. Who knows which one is most powerfull. A lot comes down to playing style and heatdiscipline.
I think i'm more suited to playing Clan actually because heat matters less to me because of my hit and run tactics.
But no Clan mech has both the speed and JJ's to suit my style.
I'll buy an Ice Ferret to check things out at least. That dusty Kit Fox prime in the corner of my garage just cannot be coerced into doing what i want it to do.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 19 April 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[Egomane]

Quote

Now i can kinda relate to what your saying when you put it this way. I see the point now. Thanks for sticking around Egomane.
As for the hardpoint issue. I swear i saw that mentioned....Must be seeing things. But i haven't touched a drink in ages.

You know, the funny part about this is, that I wanted to post about hardpoints, but didn't. You suggested a limitation of of the Blazer to one per loadout and the easiest way to do it, without creating any convoluted new game mechanisms is the introduction of a new hardpoint.

Quote

If you were offended by anything i said i give you my sincere apologies Egomane.
As you know a lot of players tend to rather....stubborn on these forums when it comes to something they have a strong opinion on.
I was the stubborn one this time.

You didn't offend me and I hope I didn't offend you either. We both had a strong opinion about this and defended our point of view. We both did it by rephrasing and adapting our arguments instead of simply repeating them time and time again. It was an actual heated discussion, without insults or other harsh words.

Quote

Regardless discussing it still won't hurt since someday it could come out. Having this thread full of ideas could be beneficial for PGI.

On that point I can fully agree!

[Spleenslitta]

Egomane, on 19 April 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

You know, the funny part about this is, that I wanted to post about hardpoints, but didn't. You suggested a limitation of of the Blazer to one per loadout and the easiest way to do it, without creating any convoluted new game mechanisms is the introduction of a new hardpoint.


You didn't offend me and I hope I didn't offend you either. We both had a strong opinion about this and defended our point of view. We both did it by rephrasing and adapting our arguments instead of simply repeating them time and time again. It was an actual heated discussion, without insults or other harsh words.


On that point I can fully agree!

Then all is well.

Introduction of a new hardpoint? Maybe a hardpoint which is capable of handling big weapons as well as standard stuff?
Big weapons which demand such enourmous amounts of energy to fire that it needs a special thick energy coil directly from the engine to feed it.
Or the recoil from such a huge ballistic weapon is so enourmous that an ordinary hardpoint would be mauled to bits by it.

Heavy Gauss would definitivly have a huge recoil. But this is something for another thread i think.

[kosmos1214]

Nightshade24, on 18 April 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

King crab is so highly expensive to maintain for post SLDF (and even during SLDF for rearm) and are now rare that only a group of kingcrabs exist in the IS while Clan Ghost Bear atm has more King Crabs (mainly 000b's) then the entire IS put together in working condition.

If anything King Crabs should be on the clan side in CW along with early battlemaster, locust, highlander, etc variants.

The King crab would never see action against the clans until the IS made new ones. Which is thins like the king crab 001 and 005 if I am not mistakend.

basicly nearly any mech with Double Heatsinks, Endo steel, ferro, Artemis, ER PPC or er large lasers, pulse lasers, Gauss, LBX, UAC, etc... Is basically very rare, or extinct practically.

what you say here is wrong the IS did have king crabs all most all of them where owned by com star but they did have them they even had some it stoke piles that had never been down graded heck even the great houses where able to hang on to some do to the king crab haveing low tech (by battle tech standers ) parts

[Ragtag soldier]

kosmos1214, on 19 April 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

what you say here is wrong the IS did have king crabs all most all of them where owned by com star but they did have them they even had some it stoke piles that had never been down graded heck even the great houses where able to hang on to some do to the king crab haveing low tech (by battle tech standers ) parts

most assault 'mechs were fairly rare during teh fourth succession war, and the king crab was one of the worst offenders in that regard as a lot of them were taken by the SLDF when it left, destroyed due to their close-quarters fighting style. or secreted away by comstar. not to mention the fact it chews through ammo like a fat kid going through cookies.

you owe me a cookie for this post.

[TheArisen]

I hope they add this and other weapons to the game. It'd spice things up and add variety.

[Nightshade24]

kosmos1214, on 19 April 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

what you say here is wrong the IS did have king crabs all most all of them where owned by com star but they did have them they even had some it stoke piles that had never been down graded heck even the great houses where able to hang on to some do to the king crab haveing low tech (by battle tech standers ) parts

Compared to the amount taken out of the IS and the fact these king crabs are...
1) very expensive to repair for the normal IS budgets
2) Very expensive to rearm for anyone to pay up. This is why most King crabs clanners got removed the LRM's and AC 20's for ER large lasers. (excluding ghost bear... they like old school IS mechs for odd reasons that I adore!)

The ones that remain are basically kept in worst case situations near the capital or terra and also often not used for combat and quite a few are scrapped for parts.

Not saying this thing is extinct, But in CW you would see atm 0 IS king crabs verse Clan King Crabs (if they are used for said battle, lore wise the main offensive is composed of omnimechs, IS mechs are used to defend as well as battlemechs)

You kinda forget how rare having heavy and assault mechs are usually on the battlefield, Mainly assaults. This is why Steiner is iconic for the atlas. They used it for things like scouting just to make fun of other houses (some houses can't even afford a mech (ie Locust!) to scout, they used tanks and APC's for those roles.

Steiner has the best in monies of the great houses and likes to show it off.

[rolly]

Thank you for your work, but no. Too many things broken and of higher priority to make this game presentable before a feature like this can be considered.

[Spleenslitta]

rolly, on 22 April 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

Thank you for your work, but no. Too many things broken and of higher priority to make this game presentable before a feature like this can be considered.

Pardon me but me, Egomane and Nightshade24 already agreed we don't need this weapon right at this moment in the above posts.
But it's still a good thread filled with ideas for PGI to have on the day they decide it's time to introduce these weapons into MWO.

[kosmos1214]

Ragtag soldier, on 20 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

most assault 'mechs were fairly rare during teh fourth succession war, and the king crab was one of the worst offenders in that regard as a lot of them were taken by the SLDF when it left, destroyed due to their close-quarters fighting style. or secreted away by comstar. not to mention the fact it chews through ammo like a fat kid going through cookies.

you owe me a cookie for this post.

yes they where rare the point i was making is you where making them sound extinct is all when they where not and they managed to survive dispite the lose of there factory in the 2nd secession war and i owe you no cookie

Nightshade24, on 22 April 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

Compared to the amount taken out of the IS and the fact these king crabs are...
1) very expensive to repair for the normal IS budgets
2) Very expensive to rearm for anyone to pay up. This is why most King crabs clanners got removed the LRM's and AC 20's for ER large lasers. (excluding ghost bear... they like old school IS mechs for odd reasons that I adore!)

The ones that remain are basically kept in worst case situations near the capital or terra and also often not used for combat and quite a few are scrapped for parts.

Not saying this thing is extinct, But in CW you would see atm 0 IS king crabs verse Clan King Crabs (if they are used for said battle, lore wise the main offensive is composed of omnimechs, IS mechs are used to defend as well as battlemechs)

You kinda forget how rare having heavy and assault mechs are usually on the battlefield, Mainly assaults. This is why Steiner is iconic for the atlas. They used it for things like scouting just to make fun of other houses (some houses can't even afford a mech (ie Locust!) to scout, they used tanks and APC's for those roles.

Steiner has the best in monies of the great houses and likes to show it off.

and actually i do get there where rare very rare but around heck even the freaking mackie managed to survive same with the clint just with less then ideal care

[Nightshade24]

kosmos1214, on 23 April 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

yes they where rare the point i was making is you where making them sound extinct is all when they where not and they managed to survive dispite the lose of there factory in the 2nd secession war and i owe you no cookie

and actually i do get there where rare very rare but around heck even the freaking mackie managed to survive same with the clint just with less then ideal care

I believe both mechs are 'so early' / basic that there was nothing to strip from and used parts that is extremely common to find in the time period, eg the armour used on the mackie is still seen on a lot of vehicles and such, both combat and non combat. Even though this armour is basicly extinct on mechs at this time period...

However I think these would be much more rare I think.... http://www.sarna.net...l_Readout:_1945

[Spleenslitta]

Um...pardon me but could we get back on subject of how to make these weapons usable for the day PGI might decide to introduce them to MWO?

I think the Bombast Laser is good to go as it is since it weights 7 tonns and needs a charge to achieve full 12 damage.
Besides you can shoot at less than full charge if you're in a hurry.

But the Binary Laser needs something to make up for those 2 extra tonns, the extra crit slot and all that heat (16).
I think a short burn duration but a longer than 4 seconds cooldown time is the way to go.
Maybe 6 seconds cooldown without a charge?