28 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

been buggy me for long time now.

Ammo

It's time to introduce Ammo types.

for Lasers, Crystals.
Ballistic, of-course Bullets and shells.
Missiles, Missiles

so the Property's
Crystals.
Close Ranged, Long Ranged, Armour Focused, Structure Focused.
CR=60% armor 40% Structure with -40% Range
LR=40% armor 60% Structure with +40% range
AF=145% armor -45% structure range same
SF=-45 Armor +145% structure Range same
Normal Focus=no adjustments

Ballistic
same as Lasers but then with all ballistic ammo.

Missile, this will rock
Explosion load, EMP payload, TH load, Frozen payload.
those are unguided Missiles, that are fired without a lock, they are AoE property's

Explosion like the name suggest, it deals Structure damage within a area it got fire on lets say 50 meters.

Unguided Missiles, deals Armor damage of 160% -45% structure they are AoE based of 30 meters.

TH load,
those missiles not only do -30% Structure/armor but also burns the mech, make them run almost hot as Lava for long time duration AoE based 35 meters, (a tactical missile)

Frozen
those Missiles are loaded with advanced cryo that freeze the armor of any mech that got unlucky being in that area, -40% Structure/armor, adjust move speed -45% AoE 45 Meters.

[One Medic Army]

A: PGI has said they can't due to a coding decision from early in the game's development

B: We've been asking for ballistic/missile ammo types for a while, specifically for LBX weapons. Tabletop already has variant ammo types ready for use. We don't need to make up new ones.

C: Crystals are for hippies, not mechwarriors.

Edited by One Medic Army, 17 April 2015 - 09:13 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Aren't only the Clans using Chemical Laser for a good spell? So, no to Laser ammo, unless Chemical.


and if you mean ammo explosions? sure, but we'd also need through armor criticals and so on from BT for a more comprehensive system that is almost unnecessary, with how much damage we can dish out in MWO anyway!

[Abisha]

One Medic Army, on 17 April 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

A: PGI has said they can't due to a coding decision from early in the game's development

B: We've been asking for ballistic/missile ammo types for a while, specifically for LBX weapons. Tabletop already has variant ammo types ready for use. We don't need to make up new ones.

C: Crystals are for hippies, not mechwarriors.

total nonsense, they can make Clan ammo also right.
they say that because they don't have creativity to write/mod the game.

Praetor Knight, on 17 April 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

Aren't only the Clans using Chemical Laser for a good spell? So, no to Laser ammo, unless Chemical.


and if you mean ammo explosions? sure, but we'd also need through armor criticals and so on from BT for a more comprehensive system that is almost unnecessary, with how much damage we can dish out in MWO anyway!

forget BT ever existed man.

[One Medic Army]

Abisha, on 17 April 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

total nonsense, they can make Clan ammo also right.
they say that because they don't have creativity to write/mod the game.

If you're referring to how clan Acs fire bursts, and IS Acs fire single shots, that's different weapons, not different ammo.

Also, as far as the difficulty of adding it in, it really depends how the stuff was coded to begin with, which isn't something any of us as Players get to know. Programming is rarely as simple as it sounds.

[orcrist86]

I would, give my right pinkie for inferno missiles, and flamers that actually leave you on fire for 30-90 seconds

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Abisha, on 17 April 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

forget BT ever existed man.

Hard to do since this is 'a Battletech Game'.



But I can relate to what you seem to be preferring (you are not alone if I'm interpreting properly).

For example, I'd rather explore cutting damage in half for lasers, extending missiles cooldown rates and reducing ballistic damage (with more ammo and shorter cooldowns) to better match current armor in honor of BT (and there percents don't have to too drastic in most cases, but can be in a select few).

[Abisha]

One Medic Army, on 17 April 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

If you're referring to how clan Acs fire bursts, and IS Acs fire single shots, that's different weapons, not different ammo.

Also, as far as the difficulty of adding it in, it really depends how the stuff was coded to begin with, which isn't something any of us as Players get to know. Programming is rarely as simple as it sounds.

hmm, in that case they can add (ammo property) on the weapons. see it's not all that difficult.
(very much like modules work), as for switching ammo during fly is also more simple (each mech have like 10 switchable ammo modules) that request 10 seconds reload)

[One Medic Army]

Abisha, on 17 April 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

hmm, in that case they can add (ammo property) on the weapons. see it's not all that difficult.
(very much like modules work), as for switching ammo during fly is also more simple (each mech have like 10 switchable ammo modules) that request 10 seconds reload)

Again, don't think coding is easy. Maybe the way they coded the weapon objects has their stats set at start of game, and it can't be changed mid-match. Maybe they tried switching ammo types in-match and it caused crashes due to a bug they can't hunt down. Maybe it made all the mechs turn bright orange and become covered in polka-dots.

Coding is weird, and it gets worse the more complex the thing you're coding.

[ROSS-128]

I'm pretty sure most mechs, if you shot them with missiles that froze them they'd be like "Please keep shooting! You're keeping my weapons cool!"

I don't know about the types suggested, TBH the ones in the OP seem kind of odd, and could use some clarification. For example, LR and SR: is that +60/40 (ie 1.6x/1.4x), -60/-40 (0.4x/0.6x), or "deals 60/40" (0.6x/0.4x)? If it's one of the last two, why would I ever equip SR to cut my damage in half AND nearly cut my range in half? If it's the first one, why would I ever not equip LR to get a huge boost to damage AND range?

Same issue with the AF/SF numbers: is that "deals 145%" (1.45x) or "+145%" (2.45x)? The presence of "-45%" on the opposing stat seems to suggest the latter, but just in case, AF doesn't deal negative damage (healing) to structure does it?

Also, those AoEs on missiles would be hilariously OP because it would allow them to damage multiple components in one hit, and CT hits would too frequently turn into headshots.

As far as coding goes, damage/range/cooldown/heat/velocity stats could probably be adjusted by adding "module slots" to weapons, which then modify those stats via the Quirk system. However, this would not be able to change behavior (such as LBX shot->slug, or adding blast to weapons that don't already have it, etc), so it would be fairly limited and still leave a lot of issues (such as, well, the LBX).

[Abisha]

E Rommel, on 17 April 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure most mechs, if you shot them with missiles that froze them they'd be like "Please keep shooting! You're keeping my weapons cool!"

I don't know about the types suggested, TBH the ones in the OP seem kind of odd, and could use some clarification. For example, LR and SR: is that +60/40 (ie 1.6x/1.4x), -60/-40 (0.4x/0.6x), or "deals 60/40" (0.6x/0.4x)? If it's one of the last two, why would I ever equip SR to cut my damage in half AND nearly cut my range in half? If it's the first one, why would I ever not equip LR to get a huge boost to damage AND range?

Same issue with the AF/SF numbers: is that "deals 145%" (1.45x) or "+145%" (2.45x)? The presence of "-45%" on the opposing stat seems to suggest the latter, but just in case, AF doesn't deal negative damage (healing) to structure does it?

Also, those AoEs on missiles would be hilariously OP because it would allow them to damage multiple components in one hit, and CT hits would too frequently turn into headshots.

As far as coding goes, damage/range/cooldown/heat/velocity stats could probably be adjusted by adding "module slots" to weapons, which then modify those stats via the Quirk system. However, this would not be able to change behavior (such as LBX shot->slug, or adding blast to weapons that don't already have it, etc), so it would be fairly limited and still leave a lot of issues (such as, well, the LBX).

not sure if you will really like cyro, lets say you pilot a 60 MPH mech you only go's 30 MPH on top of that your turn rate is also lowered makes you kind of easy target for long range sniping.

Long range like the type suggest your range improves at the cost of damage so lets say your optimal is 400 meters with 40% it becomes 560 meters optimal but you will loss 60% of it's basic damage so if your weapon deals 10 points of damage it only do 4 points, Short range is the opposite of this.

AoE will request some good balance to be fun, they can also skip AoE damage types and add effect types.
like TH or Cryo missiles. for instance blackout missiles that disrupt mission map type of things.

[HlynkaCG]

One Medic Army, on 17 April 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

Again, don't think coding is easy. Maybe the way they coded the weapon objects has their stats set at start of game, and it can't be changed mid-match.

Based on my experience modding Cry-Tech games I'm pretty sure this is the issue. Most things like weapons, health packs, etc are globally defined. Changing them on the fly would require a server call to everyone connected to that game instance each time it happened. Never mind the internal intricacies of however MWO's load out system works.

[One Medic Army]

HlynkaCG, on 17 April 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

Based on my experience modding Cry-Tech games I'm pretty sure this is the issue. Most things like weapons, health packs, etc are globally defined. Changing them on the fly would require a server call to everyone connected to that game instance each time it happened. Never mind the internal intricacies of however MWO's load out system works.

This makes me wonder how they handle different types of ammo in Cryengine games? I seem to remember buckshot vs slug ammo for shotguns.

Workaround by defining both as different weapons at start of match, and then toggling which one fires?

[HlynkaCG]

One Medic Army, on 17 April 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

This makes me wonder how they handle different types of ammo in Cryengine games? I seem to remember buckshot vs slug ammo for shotguns.

Workaround by defining both as different weapons at start of match, and then toggling which one fires?

That's exactly how the "secondary fire" modes in most cry-engine games works. So yes, That's shat I'd a ssume they are doing, just as the different arrow types for the bow in Crysis were all defined as their own weapon in game but shared the same assets.

[One Medic Army]

HlynkaCG, on 17 April 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

That's exactly how the "secondary fire" modes in most cry-engine games works. So yes, That's shat I'd a ssume they are doing, just as the different arrow types for the bow in Crysis were all defined as their own weapon in game but shared the same assets.

Hmm, then I'm going to assume something in PGI's coding is preventing them from doing a similar workaround using different defined weapons based on ammo type toggles. Probably due to their hard point/weapon/mech build coding?

[HlynkaCG]

One Medic Army, on 17 April 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

Hmm, then I'm going to assume something in PGI's coding is preventing them from doing a similar workaround using different defined weapons based on ammo type toggles. Probably due to their hard point/weapon/mech build coding?

If I had to guess, it has something to do with server vs. client authority and how mech builds get locked in at the beginning of the match but couldn't say for certain without being able to read the raw module code.

[Durant Carlyle]

Ammo types that are already defined in BattleTech, yes. OP's suggestions, no.

OP seems to be wanting to turn MW:O into EVE. We don't need that kind of complexity.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 17 April 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Abisha, on 17 April 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

forget BT ever existed man.

How about you forget about it and go play robocraft or something.

[Paigan]

Abisha, on 17 April 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

been buggy me for long time now.

Ammo

It's time to introduce Ammo types.

for Lasers, Crystals.
Ballistic, of-course Bullets and shells.
Missiles, Missiles

so the Property's
Crystals.
Close Ranged, Long Ranged, Armour Focused, Structure Focused.
CR=60% armor 40% Structure with -40% Range
LR=40% armor 60% Structure with +40% range
AF=145% armor -45% structure range same
SF=-45 Armor +145% structure Range same
Normal Focus=no adjustments

Ballistic
same as Lasers but then with all ballistic ammo.

Missile, this will rock
Explosion load, EMP payload, TH load, Frozen payload.
those are unguided Missiles, that are fired without a lock, they are AoE property's

Explosion like the name suggest, it deals Structure damage within a area it got fire on lets say 50 meters.

Unguided Missiles, deals Armor damage of 160% -45% structure they are AoE based of 30 meters.

TH load,
those missiles not only do -30% Structure/armor but also burns the mech, make them run almost hot as Lava for long time duration AoE based 35 meters, (a tactical missile)

Frozen
those Missiles are loaded with advanced cryo that freeze the armor of any mech that got unlucky being in that area, -40% Structure/armor, adjust move speed -45% AoE 45 Meters.

The crystals sound pretty Eve-Online-ish and the cryo ammo ist just too cheesy the-usual-Sci-Fi-like.
That is not Battletech and not a suitable extension

[Joseph Mallan]

Man. Saying we NEED something in game just makes me chuckle. I have only used the basic ammo (sometimes Artemis and NARC) forever. I have no need for fancy ammo. Save special effects for Hollywood.