41 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 April 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

I think some of the competitive player base are a little upset that the two best mechs of their respective weight class (Timber Wolf and Stormcrow) are getting buffed with this new round of omni-pods coming out, while other Clan mechs sit without any real help, and IS mechs still have their niche uses (Stalker-4N is great at mid range poking, but is very sluggish, hard to position and to clumsy for a brawl, for example) but are too specialized to actually be competitive options (in a tournament or something). I am not a biased IS player making this up, the evidence is in what successful competitive teams choose to take in tournaments. Not to stroke e-peen, but see Empyreal for example.

It is a difficult problem to address. The day we see as many Timber Wolves in MWO as Highlanders or Victors now is a dark day indeed.

I only hope that these new omnipods have enough of a downside that they are not auto-take omni pods. I am holding off any judgments until I see how these things are quirked. I think these omni-pods could be quirked such that the bar is not raised on these mechs, but we will see how PGI does it.

We will see how things go. I don't want to see these mechs nerfed into the dust, but the attitude that they are inferior to certain IS mechs is a little bit ridiculous to me.

Personally...I would not really look at the stormcrow variant as being much change...they complain, but has everyone forgotten that the SCR could already do 9-10 energy hardpoints before...?

Having a few more is not going to break anything. The gargamel boats small energy weapons better anyway...TW speed, more armor, and more DHS than SCR. The gargamel already did it better than the Nopeva anyway. It is not like the nova being invalidated completely had not already happened...

[Gyrok]

Tarl Cabot, on 18 April 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

• Modeling. imho, the non-humanoid mechs tend to do better than humanoid mechs in general. Weapon placements does not have to span a tall torso, giving a more compact weapon settings.

I would just like to point out here...

The mechs with the most blessed hit boxes in the game are the GRF, SHD, SDR, FS9, VTR.

Humanoid mechs have amazing hit boxes...honestly...I am glad that we are getting some more humanoid style mechs in wave 3.

As for all the comments about duration/heat on new omnipods...

Do none of you realize this SCR will end up running ERSL/SPLs with all those energy hardpoints?

There will be no long beam duration weapons on the SCR with all those energy hardpoints...are you all that scared of weapons with less than 200m range?

My personal thoughts at this point would be to let the dust settle for a bit and take a look at the new omnipod variants and how they are performing.

I think the A LT could use a torso twist reduction to make it more limited in scenarios where you are not hill peeking.

Edited by Gyrok, 20 April 2015 - 05:01 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Only thing I find to be to good for me to beat is some of the players. The tools to get teh job done cannot help everyone.

[El Bandito]

Gyrok, on 20 April 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

Personally...I would not really look at the stormcrow variant as being much change...they complain, but has everyone forgotten that the SCR could already do 9-10 energy hardpoints before...?

Having a few more is not going to break anything. The gargamel boats small energy weapons better anyway...TW speed, more armor, and more DHS than SCR. The gargamel already did it better than the Nopeva anyway. It is not like the nova being invalidated completely had not already happened...

Who would waste an Assault slot for puny Gargoyle anyway? Especially if the whole reason is that it boats energy weapons slightly better than a 55 ton mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 April 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[Summon3r]

unlock ES and the locked DHS on clan mechs, maybe just maybe we will see a few more WHK's GAR's and SMN's without having to nerf anything?

Edited by Summon3r, 20 April 2015 - 06:18 AM.

[Mystere]

Lily from animove, on 20 April 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

not balanced is, a mech is plain bad compared ot another. Not balanced is when a emch is hardmode reaching 80% of what another emch can do in "half brain" mode.

Considering that a lot of people cry about how terrible LRMS are on one hand, and another big bunch of people cry that LRMS are OP on the other hand, it seems to me that it is probably the player base that has quite a number of "half brain" beings.

Lily from animove, on 20 April 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Balance is when every mech is a choice wih only marginally different "suitabilities" when one is an alternate choice for maybe a different situation or different playstlye.

Lily from animove, on 20 April 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

They don't need to be mirrored to achieve this.

"Marginally different" sounds like "almost exactly alike" to me, which is very much close to being "mirrored".

And as I have said before, a large chunk of the player base does seem to want 1-on-1 symmetrical balance.

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 20 April 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

I would just like to point out here...

The mechs with the most blessed hit boxes in the game are the GRF, SHD, SDR, FS9, VTR.

Humanoid mechs have amazing hit boxes...honestly...I am glad that we are getting some more humanoid style mechs in wave 3.

I don't see the Griffin and Victor having amazing hotboxes. They aren't bad, but I would definitely argue the Stormcrow and Timber have better hotboxes.

The heat and duration was more geared towards the Timber, perhaps a cool down quirk would be more appropriate for the Crows new arm.

[Catra Lanis]

Do we need millimeter justice? Maybe if some mechs were totally out of line but I can't see that being the case right now. Sure some are better than others but there isn't a single mech in the game that I have felt being invulnerable. The one exception is the Firestarter but that has more to do with netcode I suspect than the mech itself.

[Gas Guzzler]

Catra Lanis, on 20 April 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

Do we need millimeter justice? Maybe if some mechs were totally out of line but I can't see that being the case right now. Sure some are better than others but there isn't a single mech in the game that I have felt being invulnerable. The one exception is the Firestarter but that has more to do with netcode I suspect than the mech itself.

As I said in my first post in this thread, some are upset that the new omnipods that will be available in the gift store tomorrow are making the strongest chassis even stronger. So maybe the millimeter that was once there is now a centimeter?

As long as there is some nontrivial downside to taking these new omnipods I am not really concerned personally. Something to look forward too once they are out for C-bills.

[Catra Lanis]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 April 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

As I said in my first post in this thread, some are upset that the new omnipods that will be available in the gift store tomorrow are making the strongest chassis even stronger. So maybe the millimeter that was once there is now a centimeter?

As long as there is some nontrivial downside to taking these new omnipods I am not really concerned personally. Something to look forward too once they are out for C-bills.

I wouldn't fear TBW:s even if they were twice as powerful, the only mech I avoid is this one

[GorlockTheDestroyer]

El Bandito, on 18 April 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

Also, the Crow especially needs some hit-box adjustments to make its CT more vulnerable. Right now it is more durable than many 60-65 ton IS Heavies without sacrificing any firepower, while running at 107 kph.

oh god above!

There are still people trying to bore through 90+(tw), 100+(scr) center torso armor, when there are perfectly vulnerable side torsos right next to it.

Shoot clam in side torso, collect wins.
First the vast majority of this community needs to learn how to aim. Then learn how to aim while moving. All of a sudden clams drop real easy like.(oh crap i used the learn to play argument everyone is gonna dismiss my post)

This forum wants clams and IS to be balanced on 1=1 basis. Yes, make everything the same. Sounds so fun.

To any PGI reading:
Before you add more diversity and fun killing "ideas" to fix balance issues.
Try to take 5 or more armor off the side torsos of the TW and SCR. For the timby with shoulder pods maybe take less off, since larger shoulders = easy to shoot.

Unrelated unpopular opinion: Un-nerf the highlander, victor and cata poptarters so the IS has something to use against clams at distance. The pub queue will cry, but atleast there be something interesting to watch go down on the battlefield versus constant nascar brawl.

Edited by UncleTouchy, 20 April 2015 - 08:01 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Mystere, on 20 April 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

Considering that a lot of people cry about how terrible LRMS are on one hand, and another big bunch of people cry that LRMS are OP on the other hand, it seems to me that it is probably the player base that has quite a number of "half brain" beings.





"Marginally different" sounds like "almost exactly alike" to me, which is very much close to being "mirrored".

And as I have said before, a large chunk of the player base does seem to want 1-on-1 symmetrical balance.

1on1 will never happen, because mech shape, hardpoints and harpoint locations already difer, which affects the main feature of a shooter.

And so unless the mechlab is not allowing you to crate frankenmechs with all mech parts available, 1 on 1 will never really exist.

[Mystere]

UncleTouchy, on 20 April 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

oh god above!

There are still people trying to bore through 90+(tw), 100+(scr) center torso armor, when there are perfectly vulnerable side torsos right next to it.

Shoot clam in side torso, collect wins.
First the vast majority of this community needs to learn how to aim. Then learn how to aim while moving. All of a sudden clams drop real easy like.(oh crap i used the learn to play argument everyone is gonna dismiss my post)

This forum wants clams and IS to be balanced on 1=1 basis. Yes, make everything the same. Sounds so fun.

Or learn to position and shoot mechs in the back. The armor back there is thinner than you probably think.

UncleTouchy, on 20 April 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

To any PGI reading:
Before you add more diversity and fun killing "ideas" to fix balance issues.
Try to take 5 or more armor off the side torsos of the TW and SCR. For the timby with shoulder pods maybe take less off, since larger shoulders = easy to shoot.

No. Let the player learn to aim at the right locations instead.

UncleTouchy, on 20 April 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Unrelated unpopular opinion: Un-nerf the highlander, victor and cata poptarters so the IS has something to use against clams at distance. The pub queue will cry, but atleast there be something interesting to watch go down on the battlefield versus constant nascar brawl.

Bring back those clay pigeons?

Edited by Mystere, 20 April 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 April 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

I don't see the Griffin and Victor having amazing hotboxes. They aren't bad, but I would definitely argue the Stormcrow and Timber have better hotboxes.

The heat and duration was more geared towards the Timber, perhaps a cool down quirk would be more appropriate for the Crows new arm.

While the TW and SCR may hotbox better...their hitboxes are absolutely not that great. Honestly, the SCR is only as tough to hit as it is because the spindly arms and legs make people trying to aim for those miss a lot. If people would just shoot CT on everything, they would, remarkably, miss a lot less often (skilled players being the exception here...).

The crows new arm will usher in the beginning of the 12 ERSL underlords...

I for one, welcome the new second best 12 ERSL boat...

(assuming 420 was on your mind a bit much)

[Mystere]

Lily from animove, on 20 April 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

1on1 will never happen, because mech shape, hardpoints and harpoint locations already difer, which affects the main feature of a shooter.

And so unless the mechlab is not allowing you to crate frankenmechs with all mech parts available, 1 on 1 will never really exist.

And yet people keep asking for parity.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Mystere, on 18 April 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

Nerf Clan this, buff IS that. I have news for you. We will never gain the balance people keep screaming for unless:

• IS Mechs = Clan Mechs
  
• IS Weapons = Clan Weapons
  
• IS Equipment = Clan Equipment

As I have said countless times, seeking 1-on-1 symmetric balance in an IP that is inherently asymmetric is nothing but a fool's errand.

He's right.

And I don't want that perfect balance! I play a lot of CS:GO and I don't want to play MW: GO as well!

[GorlockTheDestroyer]

OK mystere is for the massive xl nerf coming to clams. I am not.

Id rather see some armor peeled off the side torsos of the tw and scr versus what the devs have thought up. Making only those 2 slightly more vulnerable is far more palatable to me versus the in coming all-clams-will-suffer-xl nerf.

All of the above hinged on if they would even read and implement my horrid toned posts.

[Almond Brown]

Catra Lanis, on 20 April 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

I wouldn't fear TBW:s even if they were twice as powerful, the only mech I avoid is this one

LOL! True dat. But remember Denis was a Light...

[Abisha]

it's good that game developer never treat people because they think only in 10%......

balance is achievable, no really it is when do in small doses.
hard data + minor boosts to under preformed mechs makes a Hugh difference in any healthy game and no not 5% or 10% thinking.
i talking minor 2% each time a mech under preform just follow the golden path.

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 20 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

While the TW and SCR may hotbox better...their hitboxes are absolutely not that great. Honestly, the SCR is only as tough to hit as it is because the spindly arms and legs make people trying to aim for those miss a lot. If people would just shoot CT on everything, they would, remarkably, miss a lot less often (skilled players being the exception here...).

The crows new arm will usher in the beginning of the 12 ERSL underlords...

I for one, welcome the new second best 12 ERSL boat...

(assuming 420 was on your mind a bit much)

lmao

Apparently my phone had 420 on the mind when I typed that up, and must have auto corrected. In any case, I'm not sure I agree.