140 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

=OK First The Topic=
i know there are allot of Topics about Endo for Clans,
This is not Just a Endo for Clan Topic, but an Omni-Topic,
remember the InnerSphere will eventually get Omni-mechs,
so this Topic also applies to Both IS as well as Clans,


=First Question=
=Should Omni-Mechs be able to Upgrade to Endo?=
in this case all mechs with out Endo will get it and in so lose 7 Internal Slots,
all mechs with Ferro could be allowed to switch Ferro for Endo Trading up,
-
=Mechs with Endo that will not Change=
Lights(MLX)(KFX)(ACH)(ADR), Mediums(IFR)(SHC)(SCR), Heavies(EBJ)(TBR),
so to recap the SCR/TBR will not in Any Way be buffed by this change!
-
=Mechs without Endo that would Gain Tonnage & locked points=
NVA+2.5= 1HD(-) 1ST(1less DHS in ST) 2Arms (1less DHS in Arms)
HBR+3= 1CT(-) 3ST(no AC20 ST)
DWF+5= 1R(1less DHS) 3ST(no AC20/Gauss in ST)
these Points can be Changed as per Balance
-
=Current Mechs that have Ferro and could switch Ferro to Endo=
MDD(8.5Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1Ton) +Endo(+3tons)= +2Tons After Switch,
SMN(9.5Tons of Armor)=-Ferro(-1.25Ton) +Endo(+3.5tons)= +2.25Tons After Switch,
GAR(11Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.5Ton) +Endo(+4tons)= +2.5Tons After Switch,
WHK(14Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.75Ton) +Endo(+4tons)= +2.25Tons After Switch,
EXE(14Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.75Ton) +Endo(+4.25tons)= +2.50Tons After Switch,
the 2 Extra Tons Can & Will be Useful for All Ammo Dependent Mech Builds


=Second Question=
=Should Omni-Mechs be able to Change their Engine Type?=
this ONLY means that you could change your Omni-Mechs Engine Type,
so if you have an XL-Engine you can change it to STD-Engine. but Why?
(note this is Engine Type(XL to STD) not Engine Rating(250XL to 300XL),
-
well all(to my knowledge) Clan Omni-Mechs have XLs so no Clan Change,
but most Early IS Omni-Mechs also have IS-XL-Engines, Hence the Problem,
so why not allow these Omni-Mechs to change their engine type from XL to STD?
again this change would only affect IS-Omnis as Clan-Omnis only have XLs,
-
-Possible Up in Coming IS-Omni-Mechs-
Raptor(25Ton(3052)(11.5FreeTons)(175XL(118kph)
Owens(35Ton(3056)(10.5FreeTons)(280XL(129kph)
Strider(40Ton(3057)(14FreeTons)(240STD(97kph)
BlackHawk-KU(60Ton(3055)(17FreeTons)(300XL(86kph)
Avatar(70Ton(3056)(37FreeTons)(280XL(64kph)
Sunder(90Ton(3056)(36FreeTons)(360XL(64kph)
-
(FupDup was Right Not an Omni-Mech misread Sarna)
Bushwacker(55Ton(3053)(25.5FreeTons)(275XL(86kph)



i would like hear peoples thoughts,
Are you For these Changes for Omni-Mechs?
Are you Against these Changes for Omni-Mechs?
Explain How you Feel, and please Leave Lore out of it,
-
as most MechWarrior games Lore Construction Rules dont apply,
Remember this isnt TT this is MechWarrior, and Customization is Key,
in Lore Battle-Mechs where much more restrictive than Omni-Mechs,
and please remember IS Battle-Mechs do have Hard-point inflation,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,


Edit- Reworked Topic abit,
Edit2- Removed Bushwacker,
Edit3- Added other IS Omnis
Edit4- Possible Endo Locations,
Edit5- Full Topic Rework,
Edit6- Full Topic Rework2,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 14 December 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[FupDup]

The Bushwacker isn't an Omnimech.


For Endo/FF on Clan Omnis, I'm not a fan of it because it just feeds the mentality that everything everywhere must always mount Endo at all times all day everyday with no exceptions (also reduces the number of differences between Omnis and Battlemechs). I'd like an actual reason to use Standard Internals instead.

[One Medic Army]

I'd be fine with the endo thing. Probably help the clan underperformers.

Engine swapping from STD to XL I doubt is needed.

Also to improve the bad clan mechs, they should be able to swap from ferro to endo, using the same crit slots taken up.

[edit] Or, as Fup said above, balance Endo vs Standard internals. And probably balance Ferro vs Endo while we're at it.

(And I may sound insane here, but balance DHS vs SHS by making first 10 of either be 20 dissipation, and the rest at 1ton/3(2)cries/1.4 or 1/1/1? depending on installed type?)

Edited by One Medic Army, 18 April 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[Khobai]

engine sizes should be unlocked for omnimechs.

would fix clan lights and assaults so they wouldnt have to use stormcrow/timberwolf/hellbringer constantly

[Xetelian]

Open endosteel as an option, the ones that don't have it need it badly, the OP ones already have it.

[Ragtag soldier]

they don't need it. people complain because it would help them make more 'mechs fit into the meta-box, but honestly they don't need it.

what they need is to keep making with the omnipods so their versatility is worthwhile. and maybe make it so they build XP for whatever model they have the most pods for instead of making you buy three 'mechs you're just gonna put the same loadout on anyways. could balance that by tying certain quirk types to the CT slot i guess......

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 18 April 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

they don't need it. people complain because it would help them make more 'mechs fit into the meta-box, but honestly they don't need it.

what they need is to keep making with the omnipods so their versatility is worthwhile. and maybe make it so they build XP for whatever model they have the most pods for instead of making you buy three 'mechs you're just gonna put the same loadout on anyways. could balance that by tying certain quirk types to the CT slot i guess......

It's not like Mr Gargles could literally double his stock ammo with Endo, to make it moderately usable.
He needs to remain useless, aside from boating small lasers.

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

Mechs without Endo that will Change and gain more Tonnage(+Number=ExtraTons)
Mediums(NVA+2.5), Heavies(MDD+3)(HBR+3)(SMN+3.5), Assaults(GAR+4)(WHK+4)(DWF+5)
(so to recap the DWF can get +5Tons, but it needs Space more than it needs Tons)

Quad Gauss Direwhale with macro = GG. Will never overheat and have plenty of ammo.

Yes, there is a macro that allows you to chain-fire all four Gauss within very short amount of time.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 April 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[One Medic Army]

El Bandito, on 18 April 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

Quad Gauss Direwhale with macro = GG. Will never overheat and have plenty of ammo.

Yes, there is a macro that allows you to chain-fire all four Gauss within very short amount of time.

Fix the endo crits to block 2 of those gauss rifles?

[Andi Nagasia]

Mcgral18, on 18 April 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

It's not like Mr Gargles could literally double his stock ammo with Endo, to make it moderately usable.
He needs to remain useless, aside from boating small lasers.

dont for get Nova, her choices are Lasers or Lasers,
she has only 16 free tons, so Ballistics and Missiles are out,
not enough tonnage for any ammo intensive weapons,

El Bandito, on 18 April 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

QUAD GAUSS Direwhale with macro = GG. Will never overheat and have plenty of ammo.

Yes, there is a macro that allows you to chain-fire all the Gauss within very short amount of time.

18 shots no back up weapon, not too good at close range, fully Ammo dependent, and Gauss Explosion,

Edit- This

One Medic Army, on 18 April 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Fix the endo crits to block 2 of those gauss rifles?

or this Above, 3 points to each ST and 1 point to the CT,
now you cant use ST(Gauss/U-AC20) or CT(LPL/ER-PPC),
Problem Solved thanks One Medic Army,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 April 2015 - 09:17 PM.

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 April 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

18 shots no back up weapon, not too good at close range, fully Ammo dependent, and Gauss Explosion, GG

1. It is 21.25 shots, if I strip leg armor to 66. Besides, PPFLD nature means the shots will count where they hit.

2. I can kill Lights at close range with Gauss much better than CUACs, from personal experience.

3. Gaussplosion never bothered me. Mostly because the other mech is too busy retreating, or dead, or cannot hit me at ranges where I can hit him.

One Medic Army, on 18 April 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Fix the endo crits to block 2 of those gauss rifles?

That would be for the best. Cause any buff to Clan ballistics means the Whale will have a powerspike. With Russ talking about shorter CUAC burst duration, my Dakka Whale quivers with anticipation.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 April 2015 - 09:13 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 18 April 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

That would be for the best. Cause any buff to Clan ballistics means the Whale will have a powerspike.

So true, and we dont need any Clan weapon Nerfs because of 1 Mech, sigh,...

Andi Nagasia, on 18 April 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

or this Above, 3 points to each ST and 1 point to the CT,
now you cant use ST(Gauss/U-AC20) or CT(LPL/ER-PPC),
Problem Solved thanks One Medic Army,

i think this may be for the best, and it makes sense,

[Fate 6]

Idc what it is but I want an Uziel. This may or may not be relevant to this thread.

[Andi Nagasia]

Fate 6, on 18 April 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Idc what it is but I want an Uziel. This may or may not be relevant to this thread.

not relevant to this thread please delete post, and repost in a Uziel Thread, Thanks,

[Durant Carlyle]

No.

... and ...

No.

This game should be MORE like lore, not less. People are already complaining that there are too many 'Mechs -- and this is ONLY because each and every 'Mech is a super-customizable gunbag. If super-customization were removed from the game, it would be more interesting and attract more people. There would be actual reasons to have multiple 'Mech chassis at each weight step. Each and every chassis would be viable, for various reasons. Time To Kill would increase, rather than the steady decline we've been experiencing. Light and Medium classes would experience an increase in usage and usefulness.

Lore cannot be left out of it, as without lore this would be Generic Giant Stompy Robot Combat Game #247.

I know that we will never have Stock 'Mechs Online, but we can maintain our current relationship with lore and still have a successful game. We don't need to move farther away from our BattleTech roots.

[Andi Nagasia]

Durant Carlyle, on 18 April 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

No.

... and ...

No.

This game should be MORE like lore, not less. People are already complaining that there are too many 'Mechs -- and this is ONLY because each and every 'Mech is a super-customizable gunbag. If super-customization were removed from the game, it would be more interesting and attract more people. There would be actual reasons to have multiple 'Mech chassis at each weight step. Each and every chassis would be viable, for various reasons. Time To Kill would increase, rather than the steady decline we've been experiencing. Light and Medium classes would experience an increase in usage and usefulness.

Lore cannot be left out of it, as without lore this would be Generic Giant Stompy Robot Combat Game #247.

I know that we will never have Stock 'Mechs Online, but we can maintain our current relationship with lore and still have a successful game. We don't need to move farther away from our BattleTech roots.

removing customization i feel will not bring more players but push more players away,
you wont get more balance what you will get is 4-5 Meta(Stock-Mechs) and then People will only play those,

if your not ganna go Stock Mechs for Battle Mechs and in so doing, Ignore lore,
you cant then say, Omni-Mechs should then follow Lore and TT construction Rules,
Current BattleMechs are now as they are like in other MechWarrior Titles, Customizable,
Why so then Cant Omni-Mechs have some Freedoms and still be Balanced?

Edit- This
Im not Saying Throw out Lore and Never Speak of it Again,
I love BT lore, but i love it in Story not in Mech Construction,
im saying why only follow it for Omni-Mech Construction!
when your not Following it for Battle-Mech Construction?

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 April 2015 - 09:33 PM.

[FupDup]

Durant Carlyle, on 18 April 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

No.

... and ...

No.

This game should be MORE like lore, not less. People are already complaining that there are too many 'Mechs -- and this is ONLY because each and every 'Mech is a super-customizable gunbag. If super-customization were removed from the game, it would be more interesting and attract more people. There would be actual reasons to have multiple 'Mech chassis at each weight step. Each and every chassis would be viable, for various reasons. Time To Kill would increase, rather than the steady decline we've been experiencing. Light and Medium classes would experience an increase in usage and usefulness.

Lore cannot be left out of it, as without lore this would be Generic Giant Stompy Robot Combat Game #247.

I know that we will never have Stock 'Mechs Online, but we can maintain our current relationship with lore and still have a successful game. We don't need to move farther away from our BattleTech roots.

Actually, in the lore, many mechs are in fact still superior to others. Sometimes they have superior weapons equipped, or better upgrades (DHS/Endo/etc), better engine choice, more armor, higher tonnage, and so on.

The difference is that people would just have to only use mechs that are superior out of the box.

For example, why use any other medium (or almost any other mech period) than the Stormcrow Prime?

[Khobai]

Quote

Actually, in the lore, many mechs are in fact still superior to others. Sometimes they have superior weapons equipped, or better upgrades (DHS/Endo/etc), better engine choice, more armor, higher tonnage, and so on.

yeah but battletech has BATTLE VALUE. So having mechs that are worse than others its acceptable because better mechs cost more BV than worse mechs.

MWO sadly does not have BV so having mechs that are way worse than others isnt acceptable or balanced.

[Durant Carlyle]

There would be far more choices of viable chassis, and the battlefield would see more variety.

You wouldn't have situations like the Griffin, where you can boat SRMs, or LRMs, or LLs, or MPLs, or MLs, depending on your exact preferences. People would have to take different 'Mechs depending on the weapons mix they prefer. Sure, some might match up, but those would be few and far between.

No 'Mechs would be able to maintain the fire rates of current 'Mechs.

Alpha strike frequency would be decreased.

No more using a single jump jet to get increased weapons/ammo/equipment.

'Mech speeds would be back the way they are supposed to be. Light and Medium 'Mech survivability would increase.

[Andi Nagasia]

Durant Carlyle, on 18 April 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

There would be far more choices of viable chassis, and the battlefield would see more variety.

You wouldn't have situations like the Griffin, where you can boat SRMs, or LRMs, or LLs, or MPLs, or MLs, depending on your exact preferences. People would have to take different 'Mechs depending on the weapons mix they prefer. Sure, some might match up, but those would be few and far between.

No 'Mechs would be able to maintain the fire rates of current 'Mechs.

Alpha strike frequency would be decreased.

No more using a single jump jet to get increased weapons/ammo/equipment.

'Mech speeds would be back the way they are supposed to be. Light and Medium 'Mech survivability would increase.

im sorry i disagree, you wont have more Variety, because people will still Min/Max,
Remember this is MechWarrior, Not LiveAction TT, i play MW for its Mechs & Customization,
MWO will Never Drop its Customization, because thats what allot of players love about MW,

Dropping Customization to give us a Live Action TT Game is Not going to happen,
but Unlocking Endo for Omni-Mechs could, and in so it could help those Omni-mechs,
do you have any Thoughts than arnt based on TT Construction Rules?
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 April 2015 - 10:37 PM.