140 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

CyclonerM, on 20 April 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

It would, because the type of armor is supposed to be fixed as well.

Amount of armour as well. Imagine if PGI had not changed that. God tier robots already maxed, with the Terribad robots armour AND weapon deficient.


Rules should be followed equally...IS robots ignore more construction rules...they could at least let the Terribad Clams not be Bad.

[Ragtag soldier]

CyclonerM, on 20 April 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

It would, because the type of armor is supposed to be fixed as well.

yeah, to keep people from peeling off armor to fix extra ammo or slapping more on than it starts with. since we've already seen PGI is willing to change the armor, we might as well let them swap out the type too.

seriously, changing the tonnage of armor applied is just as job a deal as the type, and there's no reason why we should look on way on one and not the other. endosteel skeletons and engies are a bit more important than shaving off the armor plates we already know are moduler and interchangable.

[Andi Nagasia]

Ragtag soldier, on 20 April 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

yeah, to keep people from peeling off armor to fix extra ammo or slapping more on than it starts with. since we've already seen PGI is willing to change the armor, we might as well let them swap out the type too.

seriously, changing the tonnage of armor applied is just as job a deal as the type, and there's no reason why we should look on way on one and not the other. endosteel skeletons and engies are a bit more important than shaving off the armor plates we already know are moduler and interchangable.

well the catch is Battle-Mechs shouldnt be-able to Change their Upgrades as well,
right now Battle-Mech customization in MWO is more like other MechWarrior Games,
so why should they follow TT construction rules for Omni-Mechs, when others need more,
and also lets look about what we are talking here, 2-3 free tons, not much but enough to help,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 April 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[Ragtag soldier]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 April 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

right now Battle-Mech customization in MWO is more like other MechWarrior Games,
so why should they follow TT construction rules for Omni-Mechs, when others need more-

because balance. battlemechs can change engines and all their upgrades, but can't change hardpoints.
omnimechs can change their hardpoints, and mix and match between locations, but can't change their upgrades or engines.

since the game isn't designed to reflect the out-of-combat advantages advantages of the two types of builds, reinforcing the in-combat advantages becomes the only way to make sure they're balanced.

and we're talking about a LOT more than 2-3 tons when it comes to engines, so don't try and make it sound like you're being reasonable.

[Andi Nagasia]

Ragtag soldier, on 20 April 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

because balance. battlemechs can change engines and all their upgrades, but can't change hardpoints.
omnimechs can change their hardpoints, and mix and match between locations, but can't change their upgrades or engines.

since the game isn't designed to reflect the out-of-combat advantages advantages of the two types of builds, reinforcing the in-combat advantages becomes the only way to make sure they're balanced.

and we're talking about a LOT more than 2-3tons when it comes to engines, so don't try and make it sound like you're being reasonable.

Ok i think you need to reread my Topic,
its not as you seem to think it is, as your posting it is,

Andi Nagasia, on 18 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

-Possible Fixed Endo Locations-
NVA+2.5= 1HD(-), 1STs(-1DHS of Space in STs), 2Arms(no UAC20)
HBR+3= 1CT(-), 3STs(no UAC20 & limiting DHS&Ammo to Arms&Legs),
DWF+5= 1CT(no LPL/PPC in CT), 3STs(no UAC20/Gauss in STs),
All these Locations can be changed for Balance if needed!
-
-Because the Below Mechs have Ferro-
MDD(8.5Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1Ton) +Endo(+3tons)= +2Tons After Switch,
SMN(9.5Tons of Armor)=-Ferro(-1.25Ton) +Endo(+3.5tons)= +2.25Tons After Switch,
GAR(11Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.5Ton) +Endo(+4tons)= +2.5Tons After Switch,
WHK(14Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.75Ton) +Endo(+4tons)= +2.25Tons After Switch,
Assuming a Ferro to Endo Switch is allowed with these mechs,

so im asking for not more than 2-3Tons for more LesserOmni's,
5 for the DWF(which can be easily balanced with Fixed Point Locations)

Andi Nagasia, on 18 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

=Second Question=
=Should Omni-Mechs be able to Change their Engine Type?=
this ONLY means that you could change your Omni-Mechs Engine Type,
so if you have an XL-Engine you can change it to STD-Engine. but Why?
(note this is Engine Type(XL to STD) not Engine Rating(250XL to 300XL),
-
well all(to my knowledge) Clan Omni-Mechs have XLs so no Clan Change,
but most Early IS Omni-Mechs also have IS-XL-Engines, Hence the Problem,
so why not allow these Omni-Mechs to change their engine type from XL to STD?
again this change would only affect IS-Omnis as Clan-Omnis only have XLs,

so lets see what this will do, Change Engine Type Not Rating,
so at most you would lose Tonnage going from an XL to a STD Engine,
Again im not talking about changing Engine Rating,


so this request is reasonable, as it at most gives Omni-s 2-3Tons,
im not Cherry picking, this is for All Omni's Eventual IS and Current Clan,
please if im being unreasonable please tell me how?
Edit- Spacing

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 April 2015 - 12:38 PM.

[Jetfire]

I dislike the idea of making the Omni's any more flexible than they already are. I actually prefer using quirks rather than turning Omni's into SUPER Battlemechs.

Edited by Jetfire, 20 April 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Jetfire, on 20 April 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

I dislike the idea of making the Omni's any more flexible than they already are. I actually prefer using quirks rather than turning Omni's into SUPER Battlemechs.

the locked Engine, DHS and JJ would remain, giving them the feel of an Omni-Mech,
with out having to be Super Quirked, just to be viable & it could allow for easier balancing,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 April 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Anakha]

I think ALL mechs in the game should have the same ability to upgrade to either Endo, Ferro or both. I think all mechs should have the ability to add and remove JJ's as they see fit for their build unless the are the specially quirked pod based ones then those should be locked. I think Clan engines should be locked and the IS able to configure theirs how they are now. I think Clans should have some DHS locked like they are now to balance them. But those need a balance pass on mechs like the Warhawk where the entire LT is taken by locked DHS is pretty poor design and balance nobody would actually build one that way.

[Nickredace]

i agree, Endo/Ferro unlocked for Omni-Mechs,
test it to see how all that goes, but we should have the Choice!

[Whatzituyah]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

as most MechWarrior games Lore Construction Rules dont apply,
Remember this isnt TT this is MechWarrior, and Customization is Key,
in Lore Battle-Mechs where much more restrictive than Omni-Mechs,

But they also didn't follow the timeline right and mechwarrior 4 even made up the Mad Cat MK 2 as far as I know. So by you logic https://mwomercs.com/clock UTC shouldn't exist at all and the time line things shouldn't happen because they wouldn't make sense in the Mechwarrior game because it is not Battletech. My arguement and you can make your point about that if this dosen't make sense I will try to clean up a little. Because seriously a Urban Mech was a city defense mech yet it made it in the game as a war machine on a battlefield where it would die as stock.

Sorry I meant mech not robot I was on a bit of a rant I am not a fan of this idea because of reasons.

On second thought I stopped caring I think I would just watch how this forum falls into a bunch of arguing I will even eat popcorn because all I said had to do with lore stuff like he said.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 20 April 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[Ragtag soldier]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 April 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

so im asking for not more than 2-3Tons (out of changing to endosteel) for more LesserOmni's,
5 for the DWF(which can be easily balanced with Fixed Point Locations)

you didn't read very well, because i was talking about engines. giving them a load of tonnage.

Quote

so lets see what this will do, Change Engine Type Not Rating,


so at most you would lose Tonnage going from an XL to a STD Engine,
Again im not talking about changing Engine Rating,

you're changing the engine either way, how are you gonna argue one is fine and the other isn't especially when XL engines don't fit in the same space as standard fusion engines?

Quote

so this request is reasonable

no, it's misconstrued.

Quote

please if im being unreasonable please tell me how?

you're being unreasonable in that you're ignoring any inconsistencies that support your argument on the matter. people don't want clan omnis to be able to change their internals and engine because it makes sense- it's literally what omnimechs sacrifice to be omnimechs, they want to change internals and engines to improve their builds to a greater degree than they can with standard battlemechs.

remember, OMNIMECHS CAN MIX AND MATCH THEIR HARDPOINTS FROM MODEL TO MODEL. BATTLEMECHS CANNOT. there needs to be a counterbalance to keep the first set of omnimechs from being the only thing people need in a game that's trying to profit off of selling 'mechs to people.

[Knight Magus]

PGI created this mess by allowing way to much customization on the Battlemechs and locking Omnimechs isn't fixing the problem it's just creating the holy trinity that we see from clan players because the other clan mechs are subpar.

[Andi Nagasia]

Whatzituyah, on 20 April 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

But they also didn't follow the timeline right and mechwarrior 4 even made up the Mad Cat MK 2 as far as I know. So by you logic https://mwomercs.com/clock UTC shouldn't exist at all and the time line things shouldn't happen because they wouldn't make sense in the Mechwarrior game because it is not Battletech. My arguement and you can make your point about that if this dosen't make sense I will try to clean up a little. Because seriously a Urban Mech was a city defense mech yet it made it in the game as a war machine on a battlefield where it would die as stock.

Sorry I meant mech not robot I was on a bit of a rant I am not a fan of this idea because of reasons.

On second thought I stopped caring I think I would just watch how this forum falls into a bunch of arguing I will even eat popcorn because all I said had to do with lore stuff like he said.

im not disagreeing with you, most of the your STUFF i agree with,
but if your gonna just Watch me Burn, besure to have your PGI sponcered 3D Glasses on,

Ragtag soldier, on 20 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

you didn't read very well, because i was talking about engines. giving them a load of tonnage.

i was commenting on how that is the Only Real Tonnage Gain i was Talking about is Endo,
as Changing the Type and going from an IS-XL to an IS-STD will not give you more tonnage,

Ragtag soldier said:

you're changing the engine either way, how are you gonna argue one is fine and the other isn't especially when XL engines don't fit in the same space as standard fusion engines?

what does Engine Size have to do with what i was talking about?
if so IS-Omni-Mechs will gain 3 slots per torso, most people feel IS-Omni-Mechs will be crap,
so more internal Slots could help off set the lost tonnage from going from an XL to a STD Engine,

Ragtag soldier said:

no, it's misconstrued.

you're being unreasonable in that you're ignoring any inconsistencies that support your argument on the matter. people don't want clan omnis to be able to change their internals and engine because it makes sense- it's literally what omnimechs sacrifice to be omnimechs, they want to change internals and engines to improve their builds to a greater degree than they can with standard battlemechs.

Please elaberate how? im not dodging the Question, i would really like to know how,
if ive made a mistake or have seemed inconsistant please tell me, help me understand,

not everyone is against this topic, some people are all for it,
but your opinion also matters so please help me understand your views,

Ragtag soldier said:

remember, OMNIMECHS CAN MIX AND MATCH THEIR HARDPOINTS FROM MODEL TO MODEL. BATTLEMECHS CANNOT. there needs to be a counterbalance to keep the first set of omnimechs from being the only thing people need in a game that's trying to profit off of selling 'mechs to people.

True BattleMechs cant change their Hard points, but also look at it like this,
they also have Hard-Point-Inflation, and usually many more variants to compensate for that,
where as Omni-Mechs usually dont have too many variants, and not all the hard-points are unique,

Thanks

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 19 April 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

There's another critical difference in that you can use more than "X" number of units at a time, and each player can control more than 1 unit. So, a Panther might not have any advantages over a heavy or medium mech in any way, but I could control a larger force of them against you. But in a game like this, we have a specific hardlocked number of players per team, and it's impossible to control more than 1 mech at a time from first person view.

As such, those large inequality gaps wouldn't be so wonderful here.

At home sure. Now Playing at a Agent's Event or Convention You only get one Mech at a time unless there is not enough players... even then the GM balances the teams and everyone got one Mech at a time.

So if PGI ran MW:O like a Saturday at Joe's Your point is valid, otherwise an official game you get 1 Mech. I once used a Stone Rhino in a Clan on Clan match for over 6 hours. We have full Zellbrigen for the first 4, it was a free for all after that.

As for Unlocking Omnis. Still don't support it. Not even for teh Inner Sphere once we have them. It is the rules, it has been the rules, play by them.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 April 2015 - 04:52 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

As for Unlocking Omnis. Still don't support it. Not even for teh Inner Sphere once we have them. It is the rules, it has been the rules, play by them.

I can understand that, but as it will only add 2-3tons to Lesser-Omnis, and because it adds to player choice,
it should be considered, at lease for the Test Servers, then if its good and given a green light, released,

[Andi Nagasia]

Knight Magus, on 20 April 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

PGI created this mess by allowing way to much customization on the Battlemechs and locking Omnimechs isn't fixing the problem it's just creating the holy trinity that we see from clan players because the other clan mechs are subpar.

perhaps 2-3 tons wont help much,
but it could help some even abit,
,2-3Tons more ammo,
,2-3 more DHS,
,Larger weapons,
,TC-Mk2 & CAP,
,Clan ACs?
its a choice that players could have,
it has been available in other MW titles,

[Whatzituyah]

Andi Nagasia, on 25 April 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

perhaps 2-3 tons wont help much,
but it could help some even abit,
,2-3Tons more ammo,
,2-3 more DHS,
,Larger weapons,
,TC-Mk2 & CAP,
,Clan ACs?
its a choice that players could have,
it has been available in other MW titles,

The only games I can loosely related MechWarrior Online to is MechWarrior 3 & 4 but thats only because of the mechanics I think you can move arms in 3. But Mechwarrior 4 you have the hard point system sorta like ours and the Weird Jump Jets I mean look at these Jump Jets from Mechwarrior 2

[Andi Nagasia]

Whatzituyah, on 25 April 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

The only games I can loosely related MechWarrior Online to is MechWarrior 3 & 4 but thats only because of the mechanics I think you can move arms in 3. But Mechwarrior 4 you have the hard point system sorta like ours and the Weird Jump Jets I mean look at these Jump Jets from Mechwarrior 2

perhaps but Still, i can live with Locked JJ/DHS if we got Unlocked Endo,
thats Endo(with Locked Locations) & Ferro to Endo Switch for Ferro Omnis,

if BattleMechs can Upgrade Endo Ferro DHS dont have Fixed or locked Equipment and its not a problem,
then i dont see why OmniMechs cant Upgrade Endo(Locked Locations) if they have Locked Engine JJ/DHS still,

[Lunatic_Asylum]

No, I do not think that PGI should ever do that.

[Mcgral18]

lunticasylum, on 26 April 2015 - 08:34 PM, said:

No, I do not think that PGI should ever do that.

The Bad Robots must stay Bad.