140 replies to this topic

[Ragtag soldier]

the reason why chassis is locked is because it's the skeleton of the 'mech. if you take the frame out of a car, you don't have a car anymore, you have a pile of car parts. same with the mech's chassis. you pull out the internal structure, you're not replacing parts, you're moving the 'mech parts onto a new 'mech entirely.

Mcgral18, on 26 April 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

The Bad Robots must stay Bad.

if you think they're bad, then yes. VERY few clan omnis are actually bad, they just compare poorly (as they always have) to the handful of better-optimized mechs.

[Knight Magus]

Ragtag soldier, on 26 April 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

the reason why chassis is locked is because it's the skeleton of the 'mech. if you take the frame out of a car, you don't have a car anymore, you have a pile of car parts. same with the mech's chassis. you pull out the internal structure, you're not replacing parts, you're moving the 'mech parts onto a new 'mech entirely.



if you think they're bad, then yes. VERY few clan omnis are actually bad, they just compare poorly (as they always have) to the handful of better-optimized mechs.

This applies to IS Battlemechs as well. And something does need to be done with bad mechs - this also applies to both sides.

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 26 April 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Forced to follow TT rules which IS mechs happily ignore? Terribad

Edited by CyclonerM, 27 April 2015 - 04:54 AM.
mistake

[xe N on]

Equipping both, Endosteel and Ferro-Fiberous on IS mechs is balanced by taking a huge amount of slots. There are only few IS mechs, only lights and some few mediums that get an advantage from it.

Clan Omnimech can equip ferro-fiberous, Endosteel and XL-engines that take alot less slots then the IS counterpart. In addition their weapons and heat sinks take less slot space. Allowing Clan-Omnimechs to freely choose will result in a huge power boost for clan mechs that might be over the top.

That is the reason why Stormcrow and Timberwolf are so strong compared with other clan mechs.

Edited by xe N on, 26 April 2015 - 09:41 PM.

[Black Arachne]

The nerfs have gone too far. It's time to remove some restrictions on the clan mechs or time to start putting restrictions on Battlemechs which in reality are Super OmniMechs - a new technology invented by PGI. Should of stuck to how battletech handles this.

Edited by Black Arachne, 26 April 2015 - 09:46 PM.

[Ragtag soldier]

Black Arachne, on 26 April 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

The nerfs have gone too far. It's time to remove some restrictions on the clan mechs or time to start putting restrictions on Battlemechs which in reality are Super OmniMechs - a new technology invented by PGI. Should of stuck to how battletech handles this.

your rambling complaint made no sense. those restrictions are carried over from the tabletop, and if anything battlemechs are still more restricted than omnimechs. people are bitching because they want to push all the clan mechs into what's "meta" and they can't do it very well without getting some more tonnage. it's not about balance it's about making the mechs fit into their playstyle, and frankly that's just not a good argument.

[Black Arachne]

Ragtag soldier, on 26 April 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

your rambling complaint made no sense. those restrictions are carried over from the tabletop, and if anything battlemechs are still more restricted than omnimechs. people are bitching because they want to push all the clan mechs into what's "meta" and they can't do it very well without getting some more tonnage. it's not about balance it's about making the mechs fit into their playstyle, and frankly that's just not a good argument.

Your the one rambling - hate to break it to you.

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 26 April 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

your rambling complaint made no sense. those restrictions are carried over from the tabletop, and if anything battlemechs are still more restricted than omnimechs. people are bitching because they want to push all the clan mechs into what's "meta" and they can't do it very well without getting some more tonnage. it's not about balance it's about making the mechs fit into their playstyle, and frankly that's just not a good argument.

By "Meta" do you mean viable?

Not worthless and a waste of time?


Construction rules are the biggest thing that make the Terribad Clam robots garbage.

[Strykewolf]

I only have a crow and a wolf. Seems fine the way it is.

[Mcgral18]

Strykewolf, on 26 April 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

I only have a crow and a wolf. Seems fine the way it is.

Because those are the only two robots not completely shafted in that department?

LOL

[Whatzituyah]

I think PGI feared the strength of the clans so they had to give them some penalty compared to IS.

[Appogee]

Why not. MWO is so full of complex 'special rules' at this point (eg. chassis quirks, Clan configuration limitations, ghost heat, double heat sinks which aren't etc etc etc) that they may as well give up on any pretense of some kind of overall universal build system.

Just give new players a Mech Recipe Book and suggest they not even try to understand the principles of Mech building.

[Joseph Mallan]

Why do folks always wanna change the rules?

[Steve Pryde]

Yes

Why? I love customizing my mechs and with unlocked endo/ferro I can customize much more.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

Why do folks always wanna change the rules?

Because sometimes the rules are bad.

Note that I don't necessarily support this thread, as evidenced by my first post in the thread, but I'm just explaining why people want to change things. Proof of my non-support:

FupDup, on 18 April 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

For Endo/FF on Clan Omnis, I'm not a fan of it because it just feeds the mentality that everything everywhere must always mount Endo at all times all day everyday with no exceptions (also reduces the number of differences between Omnis and Battlemechs). I'd like an actual reason to use Standard Internals instead.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 27 April 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

Because sometimes the rules are bad.

Note that I don't necessarily support this thread, as evidenced by my first post in the thread, but I'm just explaining why people want to change things. Proof of my non-support:

It is not a bad rule in this case. But we are not playing OUR game. I have been a GM/DM for over 30 years. If I gave the players what they wanted It would not be the game I envisioned. and as the one making the game and investing teh sweat and tears of then running teh game, I get to say how the game will run.

There is a line in the DM's notes in the original castle Greyhawk.

"This is the plot hook. If the players do not recognize it, close the module, place your hands on top of it and stare at them till they get the hint."

I like that line. More game makers need to remember it. Yes it can spell the end of the game/their job. But if it isn't the game they want to put out any more... Why keep putting it out?

[Ragtag soldier]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

Why do folks always wanna change the rules?

because when they're bad at a game, it's got to be the fault of the game not letting them use their l33t club penguin skills properly.

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

Why do folks always wanna change the rules?

Why don't any of the IS robots follow the rules?

[Almond Brown]

Lightfoot, on 19 April 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

Not Engines because that is a critical payload balance that you actually get some rewards for. That part is good, much as I want my 2xLB-20X Summoner from MW4 which smaller engines would allow.

However, Jump Jets are not doing anything which you could call agility so they should be removable as the player desires. The Jump-jets are not anywhere near as agile as Battle Tech TT calls for or describes so they should always be optional or be revamped to be canon.

Canon Battle Tech Jump-jets on a 100 ton mech......



That's what you want. About 2.5 to 3 mech heights and then the distance. If full JJets are equipped. Lights fly higher. If they don't do that they don't make you agile they just make you a fat target. So no fixed jump jets, they are too bound up in 3PV pop-tart nerfing in MWO.

Endo and FF should be optional always just for pure balance across all chassis. Just map the fixed hardpoints for them if the player chooses Endo or FF. Everything gets corrected and balanced and is very very balanced. That makes the weapons easier to balance too.

Hate to harp on this but a Canon TT cycle did not include weapons fire while Jumping. MWO allows so is not comparable, sorry. We have been to the lands of Poptarts. Turned out to be way more "sour" in flavor than most tastes liked. It was changed and needs to stay changed. For the "stuck with what they got Clan Mechs", I guess a "ces't la vie" is in order.

Fear not though Clanners. The I.S. Mechs would really enjoy 2 slot DHS's, 50% off weapons weights, 2 torso engine death, etc etc, but for the "stuck with what they got I.S. Mechs", I guess a "ces't la vie" is also in order.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 27 April 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Why don't any of the IS robots follow the rules?

They follow the rules. I don't have Phased cannons or Light Sabers. They follow the construction rules set up by FASA and PGI.

Neverwinter is billed as a D&D game using 4th edition rules. But I've never been in a D&D game where my character has thousands of HP!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 April 2015 - 09:53 AM.