74 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

1/1/1/1 will kill this game

[Deathlike]

The Clans would get a major nerf by this... as it's difficult enough with the tonnage limits they have.

Even if you got Hellbringer/Timberwolf + Stormcrow combo in between... the choices between a Gargoyle, Warhawk, and Direwolf (gotta wait for that mech to get moving) is difficult... and neither is the Adder, Kitfox, or Mist Lynx on the other end.

It can only get worse, and to get what you'd want, you'd probably want to fit in a Shadowcat if you're even tempted to go the Direwolf route (best option in the worst of picks).

Direwolf+Hellbringer+Shadowcat+Kitfox is what you can barely fit @ 240 and 1/1/1/1 and be barely meta-favorable.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 April 2015 - 09:49 AM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

No 1/1/1/1!

[TripleEhBeef]

Funny, back when Phase 2 was on it's way, they had decided to rule out 1/1/1/1 and use the tonnage limit instead.

[Tasker]

1/1/1/1 are they serious? lol

Light rushes are boring and nobody likes them. Instead of making generators have more health (so that single firestarter can't burn them down in 10 seconds), or maybe change base layouts on worst maps for this (Sulfurous), instead, let reduce everyone to 1 light wave each! Here is hint, if light rush is going to work, 1 is enough.

Unreal.

PGI, do you even play your own game?

[STEF_]

I would like to bring tonnage system in pugs and group que too, so figure what I could think about 1/1/1/1 in CW

[Ragtag soldier]

russ, in his immaculate noobness, has spoken! 1/1/1/1 shall be the cure to CW!

i don't even like that stupid sabotage mission and i can tell this is a stupid idea.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

InRev, on 19 April 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

Or they should just scrap the painfully boring MOBA mode and create something that would actually encourage people to not just stack choke-point mechs and choke-point avoiding lights.

You know, something like a big, expansive map that requires scouting, maneuver, skirmishing etc.

This. This a lot. This all day erry day. So many times and for always.

Please?

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 19 April 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

The Clans would get a major nerf by this... as it's difficult enough with the tonnage limits they have.

Even if you got Hellbringer/Timberwolf + Stormcrow combo in between... the choices between a Gargoyle, Warhawk, and Direwolf (gotta wait for that mech to get moving) is difficult... and neither is the Adder, Kitfox, or Mist Lynx on the other end.

It can only get worse, and to get what you'd want, you'd probably want to fit in a Shadowcat if you're even tempted to go the Direwolf route (best option in the worst of picks).

Direwolf+Hellbringer+Shadowcat+Kitfox is what you can barely fit @ 240 and 1/1/1/1 and be barely meta-favorable.

Someone out there does not want a Direwolf + Timberwrolf + <medium> + <light> combination. It's really a very underhanded suggestion to cripple the Clans. It's really trying to force a revisionist "history" of the BT universe under the guise of "balance".

Phooey! Using "balance" as an excuse to really achieve something else is really getting so old.

Unfortunately PGI fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.

Edited by Mystere, 19 April 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[ztac]

The real answer is a simple one, make lights as a light should be... Highly vulnerable to fire and by that I mean not the case where they seem to take as much as an assault can! People talk about role warfare and a light was never meant to fight , here we have another problem where you have lights running around with rather large weapons too. But then this is just symptomatic of how the game has always been and the fact that they just don't know what they are doing!

It's all back to the TT rules to justify what happens in the game, then throwing the rule book away for other things. Maybe they should correctly balance the game too? But right now balance is way off with their perk system and the potential overpowered mechs that can b built.

[Mercules]

k05h3lk1n, on 19 April 2015 - 04:29 AM, said:

It's compartively harder to counter a Lightrush then to defend against one. It's a boring and lame tactic which circumsizes the whole fight, it circumsizes the whole *point* of a battle.

It um.... Circumsizes it... huh? Ehem... I think you meant Circumvents it. In any case it doesn't do that.

The POINT of the battle is to destroy the turrets. How the enemy does that is up to them. How a unit defends against it is also up to them. If the light rush didn't exist then the same type of mech would be brought over and over and over again a bit like how right now most of the CW mechs end up being long range laser poke mechs. Guess how those fair against a team that utilizes very fast mechs to slip in and accomplish the objective? Not very well, the but is what you get for assuming the enemy will not gamble on you having the weakness and exploiting it.

TLDR: L2P - when the objective is "get to and destroy" fast mechs that can bypass defenders are a no brainer.

[Mystere]

sycocys, on 19 April 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

It would probably far more useful to limit each lances first drop weight. Increase the bottom to 200 tons and whichever the top is for your faction -240/250.

That would easily limit teams down 3 mechs on a light rush if they chose to try that, and at the same time it would reduced the full frontal zerg rushes at the start - giving you a much more balance approach at least through the first wave, and should to some extents ripple through the other 3 drops waves to make them more balanced as well.

The one thing that would eliminate light rushing outright is adding objectives that need to be completed/competed on prior to having the ability to end the match. It would also get rid of the majority of the spawn camping. Nearly all of the tech to accomplish this in a variety of ways is already in the game, just need devs with ambition and the desire to actually make the game deeper.

I still maintain that light rushes are a problem only for people incapable of dealing with them. It's a "problem" that has been solved merely 2-3 days after they first appeared. As such, the real problem is the player base. There are those who would rather just run to the forums and cry loudly instead of using the player-derived solutions already at hand.

What's next, find a way to stop those all-heavy rushes, something a lot of players are also incapable of beating?

Then what? Go after mixed-rushes next, something a lot of players are also very incapable of beating?

Then what again? Get rid of attrition-based defeats, something a lot of players are also incapable of stopping?

Then what next? Get rid of groups, something a whole lot of players think are overpowered?

Then what? Get rid of teamwork, something a whole lot of players are just incapable of?

Then what's next after that? Get rid of losing, something a lot of players are just entirely incapable of accepting?

<smh>

Edited by Mystere, 20 April 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 19 April 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

This. This a lot. This all day erry day. So many times and for always.

Please?

This is feeling of being caged in small area due to chokepoints, turrets and incoming dropships with reinforcements made me completly give up CW.
I played perhaps 10-15 CW matches then i fully understood that there were no alternate paths past the chokepoints that had any meaning.

All the alternate paths would demand huge amounts of JJ's by climbing mountains.
This would take a lot of time. When making your descent towards enemy territory you would be shot to pieces by LRM's and lasers.
And landing from such high heights is not good for your legs.

Even if you reached the ground safely you would be instantly surrounded. Turrets would start spewing lasers and LRMs. Dropships with reinforcements would make things difficult.

The chokepoints (gates) are the only viable way inside.
We need maps without 2-3 chokepoints being the primary places to fight in.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 19 April 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Months of heavy meta data and QQ posts. I'm ok with 1/1/1/1, I just hope the 250 tonnage limit stays too. People need to make difficult decisions to keep the game interesting, cause stalker/timby slap fights are getting old

[CantHandletheTruth]

Geist Null, on 19 April 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Months of heavy meta data and QQ posts. I'm ok with 1/1/1/1, I just hope the 250 tonnage limit stays too. People need to make difficult decisions to keep the game interesting, cause stalker/timby slap fights are getting old

250 doesn't mean very interesting descisions, specially since the good IS heavies are all 60-65 tons.

95 + 65 + 55 + 35 OR 100 + 60 +55 +35 Max weight in three of four classes.

Real interesting.


Fact is not many credible clan drop decks run dual Timbers, if they do they have an Ice Fart or something equally useless.

and 1/1/1/1 just means that you are STILL going to get the stalker spam, but less heavies and mediums.

Edited by CantHandletheTruth, 19 April 2015 - 12:38 PM.

[Mystere]

Geist Null, on 19 April 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Months of heavy meta data and QQ posts. I'm ok with 1/1/1/1, I just hope the 250 tonnage limit stays too. People need to make difficult decisions to keep the game interesting, cause stalker/timby slap fights are getting old

1/1/1/1 makes it impossible for Clan players to bring a 100-ton and a 75-ton Mech. I guess as an IS player, you're perfectly fine with that, especially with a 250-ton limit.

PGI should have at least given would-be Clan buyers the courtesy of knowing that they will not be able to play the same way IS players can, at least to the extent they are being forced to now. Maybe some/many would have decided not to buy any.

Edited by Mystere, 19 April 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[Caustic Canid]

Eh, if 1/1/1/1 gets implemented, I'll probably ask for a refund on my wave 3. If I can't run 2 shadow cat/ 2 timberwolf, I don't see the point in buying them.

Just one more reason not to play cw I guess.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Quick, everyone rev up your twitter accounts! It's the only way to save CW from becoming victim to an abhorrently awful 1/1/1/1 system.

I could see a lot of clan-only players simply quitting CW for that. It really would be a sizable nerf to clan players as the game stands.

[Widowmaker1981]

Don't like 1/1/1/1 at all (cuts down dropdeck variety horrendously) and there is no need for it..

after wave 3 is released clans will finally have a loads of viable different drop decks. Put in 1/1/1/1 and suddenly they all boil down to ACH+SCR+EBJ/HBR+WHK or ACH+SHC+TBR+WHK (or maaaaybe ACH+SHC+EBJ/HBR+EXE)

Please dont force me to use clan assaults in CW, they are not very good. Dires are too slow, Warhawks lose STs too easily and weapons are too low mounted and Gargoyles are the worst assault mech in the game. The only slight variable is that the Executioner might be a decent push leader with 95 ton armour and MASC.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 20 April 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[ArchSight]

Wow, this thread is full of enthusiasm for not wanting one of each weight class. Posts having illogical or logical reasons, Post with no explanations to why, Posts with just what they want in the game and posts with out knowing all the information.

The 1/1/1/1 of each weight class in a drop deck was only one suggestion Russ had out of many suggestions that he made for solving light generator rushing during the town hall. Just got to reason with him that 1/1/1/1 is not the best way to go to solve generator rushing.

It's true that 1 of each weight class in a drop deck doesn't solve generator rushing. It's because the amount of fast mechs a player can use in MWO is not limited to the light weight class of the Arctic Cheetah's and Fire Starters. Medium mechs on the clan and inner sphere side can do generator rushing. The Inner sphere mediums can use Cicada's with the fastest engine available to them and the clans can use the Ice Ferrets. Heavy's and Assaults can do generator rushing too sense they have a lot of hit points that have to be chewed through before they die. Combine that with a faster engine and they'll be at the generators where they want to be. They only need 80kph to get there before being wiped out. I've done the generator rushing plenty of times in CW this is why I know this. 1/1/1/1 is just not going to solve this. Even if the teams were restricted to only having 3 of each weight class present on the map, generator rushing with 12 mechs is still possible. Generator rushing can't be solved by this.


1/1/1/1 with a team weight class restriction of only having 3 of one weight class present on the map does solve having 12 of a weight class like assaults attacking a team that doesn't have all 12 assaults out but not generator rushing. This would cause the last mechs in the game to possible be held from spawning out because they would cause more than three of same weight class to be on the map. Taking the drop deck out entirely and forcing the player to play the same mech four times might solve 12 of one weight class attacking a team. PGI can't do this though with forcing the same 3/3/3/3 restriction in public que on a team due to no weight class matchmaking in CW and low population. It would take forever for player's that don't have 12 to make a match with that. It also would bring up why not play public que only when there's no difference in what the player can bring in CW. Might as well bring CW to the public que to get the faster match making. Might have to boot a few game modes to get room for CW in there.

Russ try your other suggestions first before 1/1/1/1.